Raphael General Discussion

Ok, maybe the word abuse is too strong.
The idea is that to make them think twice about stepping, use more WS A.

Also, WS A does both jobs as a spacing tool and a step deterrent.

And please, don't just think of the move WS A. Think of how it can work with Raphael's arsenal of attacks.

Anyway, I'm just leaving a tip/suggestion. Not looking to argue my point or anything.
 
all iWR is risky, iWR A is good though because it spaces. even if they block its not a bad situation for raph
 
someone shoot some Raph theory, keep this board alive. He may be a piece of shit, but he's our shit. Dress him up and put him out to work!
 
Been liking iFC3B as far away oki ... it looks slightly similar to 236B start-up and people will be afraid to punish it because FC3BB might come. It doesn't work against experienced Setsuka player however ... Chang's FD just iUmbrella and it seems to beat the 2nd hit, hahaha.

Can someone tell me how exactly 11_77B works? I swear it hits when it shouldn't but misses when it should hit ... I am in a love-hate relationship with this move.

A Chinese player taught me to use VE A as a spacing tool ... now, you might be thinking, Raph is fucked if the 1st hit of VE A gets blocked then the second hit ducked ... well the trick here is to be kind of far away and whiff both hits on purpose haha. VE A has decent range and pretty good frames on whiff ... of course this is a gimmick but it's so hilarious when it works.
 
Foxbot said:
Can someone tell me how exactly 11_77B works? I swear it hits when it shouldn't but misses when it should hit ... I am in a love-hate relationship with this move.
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I think when they are on stepping to his weak side and actually get behind him it hits them
A Chinese player taught me to use VE A as a spacing tool ... now, you might be thinking, Raph is fucked if the 1st hit of VE A gets blocked then the second hit ducked ... well the trick here is to be kind of far away and whiff both hits on purpose haha. VE A has decent range and pretty good frames on whiff ... of course this is a gimmick but it's so hilarious when it works.
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this is what ive been saying for awhile

srsly guys use 44AB/44A(B) its not meant to hit but still will discourage hit because of 44A(B)s frames going into prep. 44A(B) is incredibly solid because if FC's on block. although setsus JF umbrella will beat all options including VE. that is the only move in the game with a %100 way around it. going VE after it works a lot because they are slightly off axis.
 
I don't know if this has happened to anyone before, but I was playing against Chang's FD on the PS3 yesterday (sorry I forgot who he was using because he uses too many characters) and I stepped so far that 22B scored as a back hit, then I did the VE B:B, but even though I got the just frame, the last B just whiffed ! (or maybe it was blocked ... most likely whiffed though)

One more reason to say Raph sucks. I mean I understand that 3 ~ BB can miss due to off-axis, but this 22 VE B:B glitch is not acceptable at all.
 
11B is kinda strange move, but it's still very useful on many situations including combo's. Oki if they get predictable with rolling to 1 side or the other, make sure you catch them with this or A+B A. Mix this up with backing up on knock down if it's a character you want to constantly space/zone. It's a tough GI so people are either blocking it, eating it, or finding some way to evade it.

FC 3B is okay, not great. Very linear so it's oki use is based on stopping your opponents from rolling. The only way you're getting this to work much on neutral game at range is if your opponent isn't keen on anti Raph, otherwise he's constantly left stepping at range so you're going to have to play your spacing game.
 
I've always been a fan of FC 3B (ya know, before all you posers even FOUND the move (fo real) it's all like "poke" and theys all like "shit son you so far away i got nothin".

But yeah, it's not as good as like C3A or nothing.
 
when I say amazing I mean good for raph. Ive been spoiled by algol for so long nothing raph has amazes me
 
A straight question...
Does 8A+B impact throws if perfect timed? :O
Yesterday it seemed i impacted a nightmare throw with that :O (perfect impact).

Am i wrong?

Moreover i am falling in love with teleport *-* its great against some stances and if you use it in place of an impact on slow movesn (i.e. anything from nightmare, astaroth, sieg etc) it really shines ....i am beginning to think there is really a way to make it a useful move....
 
I begun to use TP from a lot cause i thought that like all other moves it could not be completely useless despite the appearence.

yeah its slow, its unsafe and all but when your oppo goes in some stances you have lot of time to recover from TP and hit (ivy for example) you just have to be fast on executing it.

I am beginning also to use it in certain situation in place of GI, and when you evade some slow moves you have plenty of time to punish heavily the whiff.

Moreover considering that TP set your orientation according to enemy back, its possible against some moves and stances to TP behind the opponent or on his side but in the right direction instead of turned.

The only problem is tp using it against spinning moves make you appear in a random spot, sometimes even back turned in face of your opponent :/ apart from that i think it can be used.
 
....

Darkfender, come to the psn side, join the chat, we'll invite you to a room, and tell you what, you play Raph, and use the teleport vs all of us in all these situations you keep mentioning, okay? My Raph, Xeph's Cervy/Astaroth, Stryder's Yunsung, etc....see how it goes. I have this strong feeling that you're not playing decent players using your teleport antics.

As for 8a+b, I'm honestly not sure if it can gi/JI a throw....that doesn't make much sense to me. throw's are i17 I believe, and 8a+b is i19. On neutral and in throw range, the throw should go off before the impact of 8a+b unless it has tech crouch frames I don't know about. It's a good question though, should be tested.
 
for 8A+B i did not say i actually JI throws on reaction...i just say i did JI a nightmare throw....it was random. and it did the huge flash red thing so it wasn't a TC.
I was in a private chat with a Nightmare user and he confirmed it looked like a throw even to him.

For the rest i am thinking from a lot of time to buy a PS3 but actually i don't like many games except SCIV :| and even in that case i could not play with you due to oceanic latence.

For the people i play with i assure you i play with decent players some of wich did decently to last world cup (not that i am that good but i think i play at least properly).


For ex when mitsu is entering mist you can TP (relic do tracks @_@ he just turn himself 180 degrees and moreovr you have to input 6 cause its considered BT).
When sieg enter any stance if you have the time, you can TP (except if he use chief you risk a random TP if he rolls and hit you even BT).
Against IVY spacing game you can TP (dunno how its done that long straight moves that tracks on the second hit >.>).
etc

Are there other solution maybe easier and less risky? probably, but the risk is heavy as much the reward (the whiff gives you often time for a backthrow or a 66A+B launch) and its damn fun :)

I used to play with a friend who had a great video acquisition card...but he disappeared for a while; if i manage to find him i'll make some videos :)
 
The way I see it, TP lets Raph always and heavily punish things that are already very stupid.

If an Astaroth uses a really obvious hold move that can't be cancelled, TP behind and punish.
If Cervantes uses Gun at a really stupid time, TP in front* and punish.
If the opponent is *really* stupid about his frames, or just doesn't know advantage in general, TP in place through a predictable move in the... well, 18-21 range.


Hammering down every advantage you can get, when the opponent is doing "bad" stuff, is just as important as knowing the height of the meta. After all, it's only as bad as it is punished. Having outright death beams for 'stupid' moves is how you stop opponents, ignorant or no, from "getting lucky."

But yes, at the highest level, this shouldn't come into play. I can't even imagine what BT A+K4_5_6 could do. As I understand BT options for chars that aren't Voldo or Asta, the opponent has no reason to let you get off anything that slow in BT. No reason.


*I was wondering for the frame data in the wiki: Does Raph reappear on i21, or after i21?
 
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