Raphael General Discussion

New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Raph is good against most other mid-tier characters. I use him as a counter choice to certain other characters, but he isn't solid enough to stand up to truly top-tier characters I think. You have to really have your defense on par and not whiff at all (Amy will do a 33B under Raph's A), and it is much more difficult to make every hit count with Raph in comparison to lets say.. Cassandra or Voldo. You have to play Raphael in a very specific manner, and certain people aren't good against it.. so if you think you're playing someone like that, then it can help.

It is an uphill battle, but if people aren't too used to Raph, maybe he could be used effectively for a bit. Raph usually does decently against characters with not many good step options at least (Voldo).

KEEP USING RAPHAEL!
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

sorry, but 66A is trash...it is steppable by accident...i feel the same about prep K:K not only is it steppable, but if it gets stepped, you get raped cause you just sit there spinning for hours...back throw / crazy juggle (you know, cause other characters can actually DO lots of damage)

Also, 2K is - on hit (-4 i think)...WS A is like i22, so any mid / low faster than i26 will rape the crap out of you...this is not recommended against many characters. Even on 2K CH - your advantage isn't enough to escape BB.

WS A is not a good move to use to attack...it is a good step stopper if you are good at iWS A, or if you hit with 1A tip range, follow with WS A to try to hit steppers...but close I would suggest to never use this move up close.

Finally, ummm...I think the frame data in the wiki is wrong...I don't trust it much, has anyone had a chance to look at this (it looks like mostly pre-patch data...which may still have been wrong).

I don't know who posted it, and I thank whomever did it for their contribution, from my tournament experience, however, I just am not sure this info was updated with the patch. I don't have time to test (60 hours workweek...fantastic!!)
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Like Hudathan, I have played in a bunch of tournaments in SCIV as well (though none with him, though he is only a couple hours away)...To win with Raph, you HAVE to outplay your opponent...know what they are going to do, and then punish them while they are doing it...it is really the only way.

Prep can be a very useful tool (especially via 3 and 44A) but you have to know so much about it, and about your opponents play style (this will come with more experience) (I use Prep a LOT, against Really good players, and it works well, as long as you spice it up and don't get predictable)

It is not often that I disagree with Huda; however, I like A+B_A situationally...again, it depends on the matchup

Here is my personal advice regarding your play...(I never play online, but this advice should help you no matter what)

I think one of your biggest strengths is also your biggest weakness. You are a pretty solid stepper, but every time you stepped, WITHOUT FAIL, you tried to punish with at throw. if you step with 22, use 22B if you step with 33 use 33KB...it is guaranteed damage (throws can be broken), and they generally won't whiff (like your throw attempts may)

2A+B against a downed opponent does good damage; however 11A hits more often...not saying to use one or the other, just something you may want to consider.
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

I took the frame data from Kolhell and copied it to the wiki. I don't think it was altered in any way when the patch hit, but I believe at least one other person has pointed out discrepancies. I'll probably test it later on with someone else's data; does anyone know if any other character is complete and spot on (I'm guessing Amy)?
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

66A only tracks at tip range ,but does so 100% , at any other range it has 0 tracking.

2K WS A is just to show ws A has some backstep and some people tend to throw out 2A after getting hit by 2K, I'm not trying to make it a new staple. but since its the only reliable step killer except throws and 2A give it some thought.

wiki data is totally unreliable, you should move according topics from caliburforum.com here and make sure only people who know things alter it.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

As a raph player you gotta use everything he has going for him, and yes outplay the opponent. Meaning you have to not fall for any of their strengths while applying some intelligent stuff. He doesn't have every tool he needs but when an opportunity arise you must take full advantage, such as Piggy said with stepping and punishing and also with all of his KD/stun options. Most of the time when I lose it's because I fell for the opponent's game and not really because raph betrayed me, that's why I still play him seriously in an effort to play the game better.
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

2A is the only horizontal I rely on when I actually try to shut down step, otherwise I just try to be careful and do the normal raph thing. Once in a while I try to land a 22K if someone likes to walk around but that's all. Raph's just not the character to get rewarded for the opponent stepping. The best he can do is stop them from moving and then do some real stuff but none of the tools let him do both at the same time.
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

I'll probably get a chance to play tomorrow night, so I'll check it out, then. I had it stepped 3 times and just kinda stopped using it, but I'll play around more with it at max range.

Still worried about an advancing i22 high, but at least it is safe...

I hope you guys are right (I trust you both) cause an unsteppable move would be amazing (till they release a patch and take it away!)
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

Piggy(lol...it's your name bro.....lol x_x....) Thanks for the advice. I didn't use 22_B VE whiff punishment nearly as much as I should have, and with my natural tendency to step everything rather then block, this is a must do. Thanks for the input.

A+B, A....I have success with this, but yeah, I did it too much, and many of which times I should have used prep set ups instead.

Hudathan, your words are even more true when it comes to fighting the sisters and some top level asty/kilik/Ivy players, because I still can't figure out how to win vs the sisters well at all with Raphael.


ALSO, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO PUT MY MAINS(RAPHAEL, VOLDO) ON TOP OF MY MESSAGE BOXES LIKE YOU GUYS? I want to do that.....
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

BelovedChild said:
Piggy(lol...it's your name bro.....lol x_x....) Thanks for the advice. I didn't use 22_B VE whiff punishment nearly as much as I should have, and with my natural tendency to step everything rather then block, this is a must do. Thanks for the input.

A+B, A....I have success with this, but yeah, I did it too much, and many of which times I should have used prep set ups instead.

Hudathan, your words are even more true when it comes to fighting the sisters and some top level asty/kilik/Ivy players, because I still can't figure out how to win vs the sisters well at all with Raphael.


ALSO, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO PUT MY MAINS(RAPHAEL, VOLDO) ON TOP OF MY MESSAGE BOXES LIKE YOU GUYS? I want to do that.....
Click to expand...

against cass and sophie

punish with 6K that move is good against all close range people and is good for spacing except amy

frick amy hate I her so much
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

66A seems to work if you're spacing the person well and they only have a sliver of health left.
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

4K is good at anti step but dont be to predictable because its a high same with K

there both fast

but if this is all you use your opponent can bait you and duck it

the problem with 66A is i had DC step it by holding 3 and it whiffing him for a algol bubble combo
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

6K is fantastic...use it a lot

Also, against Amy, use more WS B since she will often default to 6BB which is fast...but High.

These are very hard matchups...just make sure you are playing YOUR game, and not theirs (like Huda said)

Also...A+B A is ok...it is safe, and does good gauge damage. Just be aware that to make it safe, you need the final A, and it is GI able (pretty easily). If people don't GI that last hit, throw it out as much as you want (I say)....just make sure you know its properties.
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

66A is good maybe once a match. People could usually just TC it though and usually do if I started to use it too often. Yeah, what you said angelic.. haa.
 
New to 8wayrun, would like some Raphael help

I sometimes cut A+B A short with just the A+B in order to surprise people, but I haven't experimented with this vs high lvl players, I'm sure it would just get punished on reaction.

6K....I keep hearing about it's TJ ability, it just DOESN'T look like it TJ's, but it's an i17 and viable, so yes I'll incorporate.

Hope to play some of you guys soon if you're ever on PSN.
 
Use for 6A, 1BB (or 1B), 3A, and 11_77 B

6A is just.....I can't figure out how to use this move without fear of punishment...so I don't. The High property ruins it.

3A is good when your opponent is expecting a fast attack and tries to GI. Everytime I hit with this move(which I don't bust out often) was from the opponent anticipating a faster poke or a prep transition, and trying to GI it.

Ruiner
 
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