Raphael : Patch Changes and Discussion

Solid_Altair said:
If you really think they're gonna crouch, you may gamble with 236B.
As for the frames required for quick stepping, well, it seems you need 5 frames to evade and 7 frames to start a 22_88 move.
Click to expand...
I think it is 5 frames. Either way the opponent cannot step wrB after being hit by 2A (they must block it). Good call on the 236B from crouch, it also makes a great punisher against lows.

Anyone using 1K? I haven't had much luck with it and it is pretty sad on guard.

Disclaimer: This is all inference and theory craft, and prep is useable at present.
"Landing attacks on guard with Prep to try to "draw fire" from opponents and intercept them with Prep attacks"- Prep has no forced mixup of its own, but is good at catching attemps to evade or attack, at least in theory. Prep A catches step, yet on hit prep B cannot be stepped anyway. Prep BBB stuns on CH, but only if the BB was on block etc.
Now in 4 whether or not you could catch with prep~A was the biggest factor in how you could pressure with prep, now with the options split into seperate moves, (A for step, K for crouch, SE, Parry, A+B, for evade and B for interupt), prep has more options, which makes it harder to respond/guess correctly at an attempt to escape prep. However this allows each move to be more specialized and thus, stronger. If the opponent chooses to guard to avoid being CH, B and A can repeat for guard damage and SE offers a good mixup.
In practice, compared to SC4, B is faster and safer, and A re-enters. Yet prep can still be stepped 100% to one side, and prep is worse at catching TC moves. How does this effect prep on block? Well, it makes it considerably weaker against those who know how it works, blocking an unsafe option, TC moves and stepping are easy and universal answers.
 
Hmmm... can anyone confirm this for me? I've tried Raph in the new patch. No true change that I'm aware of... though it does feel like 4 A+B, 8 A+B, and B+K are easier to use now. That, or I just haven't touched them at all in the past.
 
Solid_Altair said:
If you really think they're gonna crouch, you may gamble with 236B. Unfortunatly, you can't go with 3(B)A(B) from FC. I like to use 3(B)A(B) after 11K, when my opponents are already fearing my throws.

As for the frames required for quick stepping, well, it seems you need 5 frames to evade and 7 frames to start a 22_88 move. I could be wrong, though.
Click to expand...

If those frames are true, I think WR B is a guaranteed hit or block after 2A. I'll have to test that later when I have the time.

Theoretically, 236B would avoid some of the follow ups that an opponent might do if they step, right? That may be a good option as well. I've got to hit up Training for sure.
 
gamegenie222 said:
So do we have a definite wants list to tweet to Daishi?
Click to expand...
From poking around other SAs, some have a general wishlist, would it make sense to have a quick discussion as to what is reasonable and needed? I'm not sure how this would work out, or if we would sound more convincing/credible as a SA but it seems that we mostly agree that:
1 - 4B whiff issues fixed.
2 - 66A+B whiff issues fixed.
3 - Prep~K speed increase.
4 - Prep~A & K tracking increase.
5 - Step kill options (22A, 33A, 44aB, 22K, 6AB, 4A, 2_8B+K) buffed.
6 - Auto GI and Auto Evade activates earlier.
7 - SE transistions faster.
8 - SEA back to 0 on block.
9 - A+B hits grounded (1 or 2 hits).
10 - 22B buffed (but not as good as before).

Now which of these are relativly more "essential" (or hitbox issues). I take it the random whiffing should be a given, but things like a better aGI seems to be less of a priority than prep having a fast mid.
 
Mr.Hai said:
From poking around other SAs, some have a general wishlist, would it make sense to have a quick discussion as to what is reasonable and needed? I'm not sure how this would work out, or if we would sound more convincing/credible as a SA but it seems that we mostly agree that:
1 - 4B whiff issues fixed.
2 - 66A+B whiff issues fixed.
3 - Prep~K speed increase.
4 - Prep~A & K tracking increase.
5 - Step kill options (22A, 33A, 44aB, 22K, 6AB, 4A, 2_8B+K) buffed.
6 - Auto GI and Auto Evade activates earlier.
7 - SE transistions faster.
8 - SEA back to 0 on block.
9 - A+B hits grounded (1 or 2 hits).
10 - 22B buffed (but not as good as before).

Now which of these are relativly more "essential" (or hitbox issues). I take it the random whiffing should be a given, but things like a better aGI seems to be less of a priority than prep having a fast mid.
Click to expand...

Right now all I want from Raph is hit and combo consistency, particularly in Prep. Basically I want 1., 4., and 9. The other ones are just nice things to have (except for maybe SE A on block, because we should be rewarded for getting into SE, not punished).
 
Do not tweet him a list, that won't work. Pick your most-wanted single buff and ask for that. If you ask for a whole list of stuff you won't get anything. Even 2-3 would be too many.

In addition, whiff issues caused by hit area are really hard to fix with a patch, so give up on those. There's a high chance they can't get done without move animation upgrades, which is unlikely to happen unless they get the budget for a whole version upgrade (think AE).
 
Gojira said:
Do not tweet him a list, that won't work. Pick your most-wanted single buff and ask for that. If you ask for a whole list of stuff you won't get anything. Even 2-3 would be too many.

In addition, whiff issues caused by hit area are really hard to fix with a patch, so give up on those. There's a high chance they can't get done without move animation upgrades, which is unlikely to happen unless they get the budget for a whole version upgrade (think AE).
Click to expand...

Yes your point does make sense. However, do we all approach daishi with the same 1-2 request? Or do we all pick and choose 1-2 that are most dear to us ?
 
mine is seA +0
Raph hasn t those absurd frames/damage/tracking to exploit the move...at +0 opponent can do everything.
They can instead reduce advantage on hit (not damage or it would be a disaster).

Second is prepK needs to track and to be slightly safer.

third (optional) should be 44A(B) being +1 force crouch on block and more damage .-. basicallythe same from scIV.
 
WuHT said:
Yes your point does make sense. However, do we all approach daishi with the same 1-2 request? Or do we all pick and choose 1-2 that are most dear to us ?
Click to expand...

If we could all agree on the one(s) we want most it would really help.

In SF4 when Rose was added to the game and ended up having terrible combos, a lot of players asked Ono to make it so that she could combo soul reflect into soul throw. So, in SSF4 they added this because it was the most-requested thing.

Developers will forget to take requests easily when they get too many. But if they get the same one from multiple sources it's more likely they will listen.
 
If we could all agree on the one(s) we want most it would really help.
Click to expand...
.
Ok assuming the whiff/knockback/crumple issues are known, we can narrow it down:

1 - A+B hits grounded (1 or 2 hits guaranteed).
2 - Prep~K speed increased (to catch bullrush etc) and tracks better (prep can be 100% stepped to the left).
3 - SEA back to 0 on block.
4 - Anti step of choice:
i) - 2_8B+K faster/+ve on block/more damage and tracks step completely.​
ii) - 33A damage/safety increased.​
iii) - 44aB damage/safety increased (back to Sc4 damage).​
iv) - 6A/Prep~A tracks better (prep can be 100% stepped to the left).​
​
I think #2 is a given. So which is of higher priority: SE, step kill, or consistency?
 
Gotta be realistic. Changes to frames on hit/block, damage and guard burst meter/edge meter seem to be the most realistic.

I don't know anyone who prefers SC5 44B to SC4 44B (though I think the step back is actually faster and evasive earlier)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom