Raphael Video Discussion

mikosu said:
I played this matchup in a long set vs this guy. 214B isn't so bad but 3B really affects the matchup in my opinion. Being able to punish some of the spacing tools other characters can't is definitely nice. I know of the punishes I missed in this particular vid and not doing anything about 1B BE but otherwise feel free to judge me harshly.

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Outside of the odd missed punishes that you've said you're aware of (and they were usually consistent anyway), I can't think of much to criticise. Like some people have said, though, I think you rolled a bit much, and your opponent was taking advantage of that with things such as 2B+K immediately after A+G throw for example. Unless I smell a CS, I prefer to get up guarding against Ivy, personally, since her roll catching options are decent. Also, I think trying to go for PREP K* after the blocked PREP BB at about 2:04 was a big no-no. I suspect that was just an input error after the BE in 1:43, but obviously don't pass up a round with something silly like that in future.

Closing comments, I envy your patience enough to try incorporating more into my own play. Also that taunt cancel into 66A+G was incredibly sexy.
 
Hi, all. My games of the (last) week is here. Let's all watch and enjoy.
vs Mitsurugi.

vs Devil Jin.

vs Tira.

Have fun.
 
I'm planning on recording a few more Raph games tonight for you guys, but seriously;where do I put Elysium gameplay?
 
Seems a bit odd... She really should have her own SA. There's a lot of depth that arises from playing a mimic like her.
 
There is an Elysium tag in media, at least. Please don't tag it with Sophitia, though. You wouldn't do that, right?
Put links inside the SAs of the chars you actually mimicked in each vid.

What is there to Elysium above the character strats other than knowing, within each character, the relevance of a different CE? Doesn't that just become a contextual strategy discussion, like Jolly vs. Gloomy input inside Tira SA? Isn't it enough to just have a Pyrrha/Tira/Ivy/Leixa/etc. discussion also add "And, if you're actually Elysium, this setup/combo/option exists instead: [elaborate]" ?
There may be more to the character than the sum of her parts, but those defy objective discussion, don't you think?

Frustrating that this convo is off-topic, but only because of the very fact it's discussing, so hopefully mods can forgive us.
 
Elysium works on more levels than new combos (although some are just freakin' killer.) Obviously her height and CE allows for interesting variations on favorites, but her main strength lies in predictability.

It's hard enough to quickly formulate a game-plan for, say, a very defensive Tira. It's much harder to find out how to handle a very offensive Pyrrha after you just spent one round playing against a very quick version of Hilde.

If done right (takes time to learn how to swap styles mid-round,) you can play over 27 different styles in very quick succession. Even regular offline buddies will have difficulty in quickly guessing how you are going to approach them, and using what.

When I play Raph I try and apply the same level of unpredictability, but I find Elysium allows me to also take advantage of my other favorite aspects of the game (learning and executing combos, learning and executing auto-GIs etc.)

I can actually go into great detail on different strategies on effectively playing Elysium, but alas;no SA exists for me to do so.
 
Zanaken said:
Elysium works on more levels than new combos (although some are just freakin' killer.) Obviously her height and CE allows for interesting variations on favorites, but her main strength lies in predictability.

It's hard enough to quickly formulate a game-plan for, say, a very defensive Tira. It's much harder to find out how to handle a very offensive Pyrrha after you just spent one round playing against a very quick version of Hilde.
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Yes, I know that's the alleged advantage of mimics. But pulling a fast one over your opponent is entirely subjective to that opponent. It's not about you doing something 'correctly'. It defies discussion on this forum or anywhere. I find it very doubtful you can give such tips on playing Elysium any more than any player can talk meaningfully about a non-mimic character 's "mindgame potential." If you still think otherwise, I guess take it to Jaxel, he's the only admin, right?

It's a vast and important part of high-level play, but when anyone presumes to talk about it objectively, no matter what results his supposed method gives him, he looks like a fool. Not a fool for using the tool, or saying it exists but like looking dumb for going off-topic on stream, or spouting off-color awkward crap in everyday conversation. It's, "Hey, great man, but that has nothing to do with me and my matches/life."

Or like how I look dumb when I don't know how to end a post.

Maybe this should be put in the Tactics thread forum, the global one, and there can be a conversation of "How to tell if your opponent is thinking slowly, and where his mind is stuck if so."
 
You should practice on thinking about what your opponent's game is, as well as your own. That's when you can start disrupting that shit with crafty mimic use.

It works for me, so maybe it's like Religion, where even if it's not true - it still helps.

You can objectively study and apply technique to a variety of opponents which are used to determine their habits and mind-set. Anything above this is just how well you and your opponent can disguise your core patterns and adaption.

Your very brain is objective in its scientific analysis of opponents - subjective as their patterns might be. If you find an unreadable opponent, then all your objective tools (moves, baits, inputs and reactions,) are moot. This is just conjecture though. I want real-world use.
 
Here's my latest match with an online rival. Our last bout I barely won. This one... not so much.

"
 
Hey guys!
Had a tourney this past weekend (NCR side tournament)
and heres some footage of me in a team tournament.... thats pretty much the only footage I have from that tourney! Anywho, here it is:


I start at 15:02! And I keep playing till the end.
I definitely should have done 6bb after my 3kBe, but for some reason I just didnt...plot induced stupidity I suppose! I hope you guys enjoy the match and the amazing commentary!
 
I hope you don't mind some pointers - If you do, then ignore the rest:

All I can say is that you need to learn his highest damage combos.

33K BE after SE B.

1B after SE B near wall.

A whole bunch of stuff really. The guy was clearly freaked out by the prospect of SE K. No offense to him, but when I meet players like that - 3 Perfects happen. He literally didn't do anything to you that could have made you take any damage at all.

You also need to stop predictable Prep strings. BB / AB after an entry into SE or whatever is just so obvious that you really need to cut it out. Prep K more too, even if you don't wana do the BE;but based off of those empty 33K BEs - you're not afraid to burn that meter.

GI, auto-GI, and JG suit Raph WAY too much to not bother on them - Put the time in, and see results.
 
Zanaken said:
I hope you don't mind some pointers - If you do, then ignore the rest:

All I can say is that you need to learn his highest damage combos.

33K BE after SE B.

1B after SE B near wall.

A whole bunch of stuff really. The guy was clearly freaked out by the prospect of SE K. No offense to him, but when I meet players like that - 3 Perfects happen. He literally didn't do anything to you that could have made you take any damage at all.

You also need to stop predictable Prep strings. BB / AB after an entry into SE or whatever is just so obvious that you really need to cut it out. Prep K more too, even if you don't wana do the BE;but based off of those empty 33K BEs - you're not afraid to burn that meter.

GI, auto-GI, and JG suit Raph WAY too much to not bother on them - Put the time in, and see results.
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Thanks for the input! Of course I don't mind pointers! Yeah, I believe the majority of the people I played against simply didn't have a good understanding of the moveset I had. Regarding the prep strings, I think you're right. I'll try to mix it up more! Thanks for watching and giving your feedback :)
 
Damon said:
Thanks for the input! Of course I don't mind pointers! Yeah, I believe the majority of the people I played against simply didn't have a good understanding of the moveset I had. Regarding the prep strings, I think you're right. I'll try to mix it up more! Thanks for watching and giving your feedback :)
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Yeah I noticed that most of the people you played weren't familiar with Raph. It's better to mixup Prep options so SE and high strings aren't punished too badly. Watch how your opponent reacts to Prep though and condition them.

For natsu, practice ducking and punishing her 66BBE second hit. Zone her a little more. As for her aerial moves, 33KBE and other moves tend to whiff. It would be a good idea to just back off and wait for her to land and then attack. Use wrB against her more because it can beat many of her followup options.

General tips. There were times you were guaranteed 3B Prep AB. Why not use it? You get 48 dmg instead of 38 and get really good spacing if you don't reenter Prep after Prep AB. Use more 2A and mid/throw followup too.

Great job though!! The commentary was hilarious!!!
 
Fendante said:
Yeah I noticed that most of the people you played weren't familiar with Raph. It's better to mixup Prep options so SE and high strings aren't punished too badly. Watch how your opponent reacts to Prep though and condition them.

For natsu, practice ducking and punishing her 66BBE second hit. Zone her a little more. As for her aerial moves, 33KBE and other moves tend to whiff. It would be a good idea to just back off and wait for her to land and then attack. Use wrB against her more because it can beat many of her followup options.

General tips. There were times you were guaranteed 3B Prep AB. Why not use it? You get 48 dmg instead of 38 and get really good spacing if you don't reenter Prep after Prep AB. Use more 2A and mid/throw followup too.

Great job though!! The commentary was hilarious!!!
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Thanks for the input! I agree, Raph requires variety and mixups in order to win....so I definitely have to mixup my prep options more. Thanks for the natsu tips! And yeah, bad habit to always 3b prep bb, when I should have done 3b prep ab instead, definitely have to add that to my "fight memory"
Thanks for the input :)
 
Don't automatically enter SE after prepBB on hit. One thing that helps raph tremendously is hit-confirming prep BB BE on counterhit, which is like 34 damage to 75 damage plus knockdown rather than enter SE.

Good job on freezing up the algol, and I pretty much echo that SE B on hit near a wall should automatically be 1B into a splat combo.

some of natsu's stuff is 6BB punishable (rather than you attempting a 3(B) on block) so that'll throw her off.

I like how intimidated your opponents were

and lol at attempting to end with AB.
 
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