Raphael Video Discussion

I'm hoping the matches get uploaded to youtube because the final match against Mamba is unwatchable, we had a really fun set.
Black_Dog said:
That Mitsu player dug his own grave the moment he accepted the zoning contest...
Impressive, Jimbo, I like how there was no superflous move in your playstyle.
Are you, like, naturally patient or did it take a lot of discipline ?
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I honestly don't think I'm that patient. There are just times that I can run my preferred Raph game and it comes off as patience I guess. When I first played SCV with Ezio i was accustomed to backing up a lot and taking my time. Raph lets me do that do a stronger degree in some cases.

Zanaken said:
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I am still learning the character and have many things to keep in mind in terms of match ups that I need to discover and implement. As for aGI's, my style of play typically relies on poking and being generally safe, and I still have things to do to ensure I can play that style effectively with Raph. So I typically dislike going for B+Ks for while they can net me a good reward on a good read the risk/reward is too much for me in cases such as Mits, but I can agree that I could've punished his zealous use of 1B with an aGI. As with needles, same thing. I get a good reward for a correct guess but I will probably get urya'd if I guess wrong with the direction or, based on his turtle style, just not move period.
 
Good players aren't predictable, and that makes timing raph's aGI's and needles very difficult and dangerous.

That said, these moves used to be a mini stance. I want VE back like in 4, but give it an evade window like in 5. Give us back 4A+B leading into a selection of moves.

I hate urya...
 
I think you're jumping from "I don't think you're as good as you say," to "I think I'm the best."

I can see where the thinking comes from though. It's a generally defensive attitude to any and all criticism. If someone points out a flaw in my game, I don't hear it as a declaration of their superiority. You guys really have to stop this little circle-of-best-friends crap and realize I'm not going for some agenda.

I am on this site to become a part of the community. I honestly like discussing the game and theory crafting too. I do repeatedly say that I am a much better theory-crafter than practical player. I like to be somewhat humble too, but c'mon - If I throw in a "I rocked this dude's ass" every now and again, don't get so hateful about it.

Fighting games will by definition bring out a competitive edge to discussion, but you guys stick together in an untouchable circle that really alienates any outside interference.

If you met me in real life, I'm sure we'd get along, but this forum is getting so tight-knitted it's becoming unbearable. I can't show character in my posts without just playing the super-humble-in-awe-of-the-tourney-scene dude I don't want to be.

PS: I upload plays and have my gamer-tag right there <--------- I'm sure we can agree I don't suck at this game, so why can't I acknowledge it every now and again without having to be buddy-buddy with everyone first?

PPS: I'm not much, if any, better than my offline circle simply because we've been playing together since SC2. It's hard to stay on top when everyone knows everyone's game.
 
Zanaken said:
I think you're jumping from "I don't think you're as good as you say," to "I think I'm the best."

I can see where the thinking comes from though. It's a generally defensive attitude to any and all criticism. If someone points out a flaw in my game, I don't hear it as a declaration of their superiority. You guys really have to stop this little circle-of-best-friends crap and realize I'm not going for some agenda.

I am on this site to become a part of the community. I honestly like discussing the game and theory crafting too. I do repeatedly say that I am a much better theory-crafter than practical player. I like to be somewhat humble too, but c'mon - If I throw in a "I rocked this dude's ass" every now and again, don't get so hateful about it.

Fighting games will by definition bring out a competitive edge to discussion, but you guys stick together in an untouchable circle that really alienates any outside interference.

If you met me in real life, I'm sure we'd get along, but this forum is getting so tight-knitted it's becoming unbearable. I can't show character in my posts without just playing the super-humble-in-awe-of-the-tourney-scene dude I don't want to be.

PS: I upload plays and have my gamer-tag right there <--------- I'm sure we can agree I don't suck at this game, so why can't I acknowledge it every now and again without having to be buddy-buddy with everyone first?

PPS: I'm not much, if any, better than my offline circle simply because we've been playing together since SC2. It's hard to stay on top when everyone knows everyone's game.
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The problem isn't with the theory crafting. No one here ever has any problem with discussing theory. The problem comes in when you're tossing out some theory about a move being a mixup with something when it's a reactable low. Theory needs some sort of basis to stand on its own two legs to even bother thinking about. And when you're in a competitive website for a video game casual theory is going to get dismissed whether you like it or not. These guys aren't here to learn one gimmick that will work on some random guy on the internet because of delay, MU ignorance, what have you.

They're here to learn to play the game and compete in a competitive setting with the only outside influences being that of nerves and environment. If you want to discuss theory you have to take into account these matters. You can't come in here saying that "Oh this works on ranked match so it's legit". You have to look at it in a 100% lag free scenario against an opponent who is both knowledgeable and skilled. Anyway that's just my two cents.
 
But dude, that Mitsu in the video I watched seemed to know less about Raphael than these randoms on ranked! At one point the commentator went ballistic over what I think is a frankly BnB combo.

My point is that when randoms on ranked turn up to a tourney, they rarely impress me. There's a core group of very solid players, mostly from the East - but the US has some too, and the rest just jump on the "I turned up too, so I can talk." Excluding the top turnouts, being top of the worse players doesn't blow me away.

I play a fair amount offline, but of course my friends are automatically seen as shit, without evidence, too. I can upload offline plays just as easily as I upload online ones, but again - this doesn't seem to matter.

I don't want to go to tournaments because I feel that the community is just not worth interacting with;from what I'm just seeing here. I tried talking to some of the UK scene, but even that turned into "Don't talk unless you play the game HERE with THESE people."

Only the people who turn up decide that only the people who turn up are good (excluding some weird self-hating ass-kissers.) This seems so ridiculous to me. I'm all for proving one's worth in a lag-free environment, but the shit that comes with it is so uninviting it hurts my passion for it - luckily I still have my passion for the actual game.

When I DO discuss certain points, I just get fed a bunch of crap about how my tactics wouldn't work from people who don't want to try them. They then say that I have to try them myself in a tournament. How about some people actually test new tech without assuming that what they can guard with no mind-games is what they can guard in a match?

Shouldn't my skill level not matter when I discuss applications of moves?
Shouldn't we at least TRY innocent-till-prooven-guilty instead of vice-versa?
Shouldn't people try stuff to see if it suits their play-style, without assuming that what's bad for them sucks for everyone?

Talking about how my points are for the casual player just don't make sense at all. I am pretty much a hardcore Soul player, and it applies to me.

If I say something like "I actually do rather well using these tactics," I get "Ego tripping, use it in a tourney or STFU"

/same-friends-instantly-like-comment lolololol swagswagswag
/something you heard on 4chan.

I just think the whole "Tourney players are the only ones worth talking to or hearing from," sounds like shit when it only comes from tourney players. I know that the 10ms lag you might get playing me on a 5 bar match might have thrown the whole match for you, but frankly - if you can JG everything you want and punish every unsafe move - then the lag wasn't a factor.

Offline will ALWAYS be superior, at least for the foreseeable future, but that doesn't mean that everything done online is just invalid. A solid 5 bar match, the only ones I count myself, are really very-nearly as good.

I am bringing these points out as a genuine criticism towards this community. It's too closed of, both socially and mentally. I am not the only one who feels this way either - Just imagine how many people jumped on these forums to say something, saw some of the already stated reactions, and just went "Fuck that..."

TL;DR: LEAVE BRI- -ahem- ZANAKEN ALONE!
 
Zanaken said:
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You may have a point about the little social circles that have come around on these forums sir. I have seen them form and break up and reform with new people. It's natural I think. Hell some people might even accuse me of being in some of these circles.

But let me ask you this. What if these same people told you this in the most polite way possible...

I'm sorry Bri...Zanaken, but seeing as I believe you are an unproven commodity and for whatever reason(which is your right by the way) you can't/won't show that you are striving to be seen as a true viable competitor, I'd rather not get into theory fighting/ tactics with you. I mean no insult but I just can't take anything you say seriously. I have shown that not only am I taking this serious but that I am willing to spend my time, effort, and most importantly finances to improve and learn from these other people who I respect because they are doing the same. Now I know it may confuse you as you are only trying to help in your own way but please forgive me if I don't engage you or give any credence to any of your input. Hope you can still have fun with this game we both seem to have a passion for but know that I will only listen to those that I deem to be a serious competitor.

How would you react to that? You speak on how people react to your calm cool headed responses and statements because they are feeling a certain way. So tell me how would you feel and how would you react to that?
 
Well dude, I already said it above. If the community was better, I would like to turn up to tournaments and actually be the guy demonstrating my ideas.

I wouldn't be ecstatic to hear what you said, because it's still a closed-minded attitude, no matter how softly spoken - but I would be more understanding.

Heck, I would jump up to the plate too.

Instead it just turns into what I mentioned all too often.
 
Zanaken said:
Well dude, I already said it above. If the community was better, I would like to turn up to tournaments and actually be the guy demonstrating my ideas.
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A few years back I felt like I was getting good at SCIV. Figured I would go to a tournament cos I'd always liked the idea, and figured I'd do pretty well. I showed up and got smacked by every player there. Some seemed ok, some not so good, a couple of French guys seemed completely unbeatable. But the fact was, I lost almost every game there, and every game in the tournament. I had to acknowledge I just wasn't very good. It was a blow to my confidence, because I thought I was at least decent. But I wasn't.

I quit the game, then decided to give it another shot, learned a few things, especially from this site. I started searching for the people who played the game before, but almost all of them had given up. There were no tournaments or events for SCIV whatsoever. So some online friends and I set up some offline sessions, and then some tournaments.

They were a lot of fun, most importantly. And part of that was that they cut out all the BS. There was no intellectualisation of what makes a good player, or what is a good strategy, or what is noobish, or easy, or difficult. It was simple - try to beat the other guy.

I do wonder why it's so important to you to tell everybody how good you are at this game. To claim your own strategies are so useful, but then make excuses when someone asks how they work against decent players.

As for your quote: the community isn't "better" because a huge number of UK players just like to talk. They don't show up to anything, they don't support the community, and for certain individuals it's more important to create a reputation for themselves being "great players", rather than showing up to events and testing it out. Personally I can't understand this mentality - the old school players I met were, without exception, interested in just playing the game, trying their best, and seeing who wins.

But still, you're doing a great job of creating a reputation for yourself, as you often have half the active players on 8wr arguing with you it seems. I've been drawn in to it, sure, in order to defend those individuals who do actually show up, and don't feel the need to make declarations of their self-determined skill level.

How about you quit shitting on our community and players that you haven't even met. Showing up to events (which, need I remind you again, are in your home town) - well we know that's not gonna happen.
 
Zanaken said:
I don't want to go to tournaments because I feel that the community is just not worth interacting with;from what I'm just seeing here. I tried talking to some of the UK scene, but even that turned into "Don't talk unless you play the game HERE with THESE people."
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Erm, when did I say that? I pointed out that you're not playing against good players, I said you should play people in player match instead of playing Ranked. The one time I played in a player match with you, you didn't win a game then quit saying I'm playing like crap I'm going to beat some scrubs on Ranked.

Oh yeah well done on ignoring Jimbonator's serious response and going straight to one sentance that Reptile wrote. Also not taking the piss here but are you American? I'm confused why you're using American-English spelling.
 
Erm, offense taken and I have no idea what winning a tournament has to do with anything. I already told him that he doesn't even need to play in the tournament, there's plenty of casuals to play, but he thinking 8wr is the UK community for some reason even though the majority aren't even on here.
 
Joel, what the hell, dude? I remember fighting you;it was about about 4AM and I was too burned out to put on anything special. I even told you that before we started. I told you I needed less stressful fights seeing as I was going to bed soon, and that we should play again soon. I repeatedly said GG after our fights and left on what I thought was a good note. Why do you have to throw my conceding defeat back into my face? That's a really dick move.

People on here are jumping on the wagon of "Zanaken thinks he's an amazing player," without regard to what I am saying myself. I have met too many better players than myself, so it's impossible for me to delude myself into thinking I am the best. That includes better players than you, Joel. You are good, very good, but don't throw a handful of bad matches in my face like some sort of elitist.

There are a lot of good posters here right now making good points, like Age of Truth, and I appreciate that. Just don't assume that I think I'm better than I am - I know exactly where I am skill-wise, and I know what I need to improve on.

I tried to voice some concerns to Joel via PM, and all I got back was "Screw off, you should be lucky I grace you with even a chance to play with us." Whilst I appreciate that he DOES put effort in to organize these events, why would I want to play with people who I don't view as friendly? Just to prove some points here and there on forums?

And seriously, spelling? You're gonna pull up someone on a forum for bad spelling? Joel, have I insulted you somehow?

I would like to be quoted as saying that I can easily take a tournament in the UK, I just don't remember ever saying that.
 
Slade said:
Things are getting way too goddamn personal. It's starting to look like TestYourMight in here.
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Oh god...i don't even visit their anymore due to all the drama there. And zanaken started it..Just came by and literally ruined a good thread. Most of his advice is not even practical, I stopped taking him seriously ever since he talked about "Just guarding NM's CE" yeah......
 
OK, boys, Uncle Piggy says it's time to play nice.

I'm one of those old-hat tournament players, and I'll say it again, you should really go to a tournament if you can - not just Zanny, but everyone, it can be a great experience. A lot of the bullshit on these threads doesn't propagate to the tournament scene (at least, the American, east-coast scene) and from each of my experiences, the people GENERALLY seem pretty cool since everyone there has the same goals - play calibur, have fun, improve. I had fun hanging out around EVO and running into the old guys I know, even though I didn't play and even though there aren't many of us left, because, when you get down to it, the Calibur community is the best video game community I have ever seen, no lie (again, speaking mostly from an American, East Coast standpoint).

I like hearing you guys discuss the game, no matter how crazy the ideas may sound. I haven't played this game in over a year, to be honest, but I still keep an eye on this board because you guys keep me interested. Every time you guys get into it I think "damn, I should play this game again" (but, it is hard since I don't have a TV in my car, where I live).

To sum-up, this is the VIDEO DISCUSSION thread - some views will not be shared by everyone, and that's OK. We're all old enough to know how to deal with other people, so let's not take things personally, and let's DEFINITELY not try to MAKE things personal.

This board is still really active after the game has been losing interest, which is great - discussion is still being had about Raph (love him or hate him) and that is all good, let's just try to keep the discussion on the game :-)
 
I am double-posting to note that all discussion in this forum from here on out will be video related - if I have to go back and prune this thread, I will, but let's just get back on track and try to chat about the game only please.
 
To Jimbonator:
You are super patient, and I have no idea how u just walk up and manage to grab the mitsu player. It must be deceptively difficult but being able to threaten a grab (despite him breaking them later) does wonders to keep the opponent from moving and is something I need to work on.

Psychologically, I don't know how you managed to make mitsu try all sorts of 4B setups early on. 6BB BE hit confirm seems to slay mitsu's 4B reliably, and 33KBE seemed to whiff quite a bit if you aren't super up-close.

I noticed a lot of 22B whiffs, but somehow the opponent was a little bit too slow to try to punish you.

And, 6B on block into step 33KB/grab... i'm surprised that worked so well.

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One thing I just want to state to Zanaken: I understand it feels like people are dogpiling on you. However, the only issue I have is that he's saying that the community is not "worth interacting" which naturally implies a sense of superiority and seems very hypocritical to me. I don't want you thinking people here form a clique for the sole purpose of ass-kissing and/or making you feel unwelcome. We're all students of the game here and I happen to enjoy people posting videos of Raph in tournament conditions.

I honestly believe that one of raph's strength is character ignorance (not due to character movelist complexity) but because its perceived he's so low tier they'll run the risk of not bothering to study the matchup. I'm sure we ALL noticed that GI'ng the 2nd kick of prep K BE didnt' cost mitsu the round, but obviously there are more prudent choices.
 
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