Raphael Video Discussion

[Leonyx]

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Thanks for the reply!

I didn't feel like I used 66K often... I use it to distance myself, since it has nice pushback. Did I really use it too much?

I'm not very good at whiff punishes as I have slow reaction speed. I'm not really sure how to improve that...

I did try using 33K BE in practice, but it doesn't hit at all ranges so I gave up on it. I'll look into it some more. I don't know about the CE though. I only use it when I'm trying to end the round. I'm not too great at hitting it either (which just means I need to practice it more).

I tend to get punished when I use 66A and 22A because I tend to just miss the opponent (I know...I need to practice it more). I used to use 3A a lot, but then I started to use the kicks. I don't really like AB because it gets stepped too easily.

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I'll work on this. Changing based on how the match is going is another one of my flaws.

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Thanks for the reply! I'm glad that I provided some entertainment, and appreciate the sentiment.

Here's what I don't understand: I thought the goal of getting into Prep on hit was to either hit a Prep K BE or successfully transition into SE, and that the other moves were meant to give you those opportunities (Prep BB, Prep AB, and Prep 4), since Prep K BE and SE give you the most damage (I think they give you the most damage of all fo Raph's moves). I seem to be mistaken. How should Prep be used then?

I didn't know Voldo was weak against QS. I'll keep that in mind. It seems like TJ's and TS's are hurtful to Voldo's game.

The Nightmare points have already been talked about, but I appreciate the emphasis on breaking throws and whiff punishing. His flapjack is a B throw?

I actually feel like I use 22B a lot. I don't know why I didn't during the tournament. I'll try to start using it like a mix up though, as I think that will add a lot more damage to my game.

I know I shouldn't be going for Prep too often, especially on block (often when I Prep on block, it's because I either didn't know what else to do, or thought I could punish something and couldn't). The problem is that I don't know how to rack up damage with out Prep. 33K BE does a ton, and I guess CE does too. That's all I can think of.

Edit: This is a really long post...

 

[Mr.Hai]

NM: B throw is a reverse ringout, flapjack B is a reverse ringout and flapjack A is a foreword ringout. Standing guard with B break buffered is the most effective from my experience if you want to be defensive.
I tried 66K for a while, and wasn't impressed (and not just because it can't link to retreat step), because it is i20 and high with no standout properties besides the fact it is safe and can RO, at the range where it works I would rather 6B/3A/3B/B/2A/AB/236B.
CE can be used thrown out on wakeup, combo'd off of 4(B), 22B and SEB, and used as a higher damage 6BB. It also could be used as an interrupt, but I don't think anyone has done a study on that as of yet...

 

[LAU]

A glimpse of my Raph... at the recent 8 vs 8 online tournament.

several pointers.... there was a bit of lag... so the connection wasn't the best....

and there's one part where i got RO by viola's A throw was due to the fact that I was doing a B move and got interupted by the throw... kinda sucked.

any tips would be fine..... please try not to point out the obvious like.... you should've comboed there... (i miss one combo as far as i'm concerned)

-LAU

 

[LAU]

A glimpse of my Raph... at the recent 8 vs 8 online tournament.

several pointers.... there was a bit of lag... so the connection wasn't the best....

and there's one part where i got RO by viola's A throw was due to the fact that I was doing a B move and got interupted by the throw... kinda sucked.

any tips would be fine..... please try not to point out the obvious like.... you should've comboed there... (i miss one combo as far as i'm concerned)

-LAU

PS: starts around 32:10

 

[Leonyx]

snip

Oh, I wasn't talking about your post length. I like long detailed posts about my gameplay. It really helps me. I was talking about my own post.

Thanks for the input on damage. I didn't want to count 66(B) as damage without Prep, since you technically are going into Prep, but the combo is legit. I also forgot about 66A+B (I do that on wake up a lot) and 236B.

From my understanding and thought after looking at the frames and my own experience, Prep was meant for what I was talking about. I think you want to get the most damaging combos from it. I've been analyzing it, and here's what I think:

There are five possible exits from Prep: Prep K (or Prep K BE), Prep BBB, Prep A+B, SE A/B/K, and just letting Prep end. If any of these hit (aside from letting Prep end, of course), it leaves Raph at neutral or better. Since staying in Prep is generally dangerous (as you run out of options as soon as you run out of advantage, and it gets easier to lose the advantage the longer you stay in it), and the end goal of any move is to rack up damage, you're going to want to choose the best and most efficient exit possible for your chosen entrance and situation, and you want to use them quickly. Often, your best choices are either Prep K BE or SE, as they do the most damage and are the most reliable (I believe Prep K is not steppable if you hit another move and have advantage). Prep BBB is good if you can get a counter, and Prep A+B is...um...you probably just shouldn't use this outside of combos. Letting Prep end is for making a mistake, as you can't do anything while doing it.

The other moves that you can use during Prep are meant for gaining the advantage, whether that be by distance or by frames. Prep B(B) is for interrupt, Prep A(B) is for step, and Prep 4 is for distance and the aGI. These moves don't do a lot damage, and are very predictable (Prep B(B) and Prep A(B) are both high, and Prep 4 doesn't do damage and only GI's verticals), so you can't rely on them for long. Therefore, your end goal should be to attain advantage as soon as possible and exit efficiently while in Prep. Most of the time, exiting efficiently means using Prep K or SE, relying on the other exits when they fill the role more efficiently.

That's my understanding of it, anyways. I know that was a long explanation; I'm sorry if it's hard to understand or it's not clear.

I do like the idea of using the other moves in Prep to decrease your predictability though. That's something I should work on. I just go for my end goal when I go to Prep, and use the other moves if I make a mistake.

 

[WuHT]

After SE B on block, you scored a pair of CH 3(B) combos. I prefer trying BB (and hit confirming the last B) for more damage and safety as the opponent is much more likely to try an interrupt if they block SE B up close. Obviously up close, if they dont take the bait and just hold guard, entering 3(B) at that range is not my favourite thing to do.

I don't know how you managed to sustain so much SE pressure, maybe the online lag factor helped freeze up the viola player. In fact, you stepped a lot more than the viola player, which may reflect either your playstyle. Luckily that makes the matchup much easier if the opponent plays a forward/backward pacing type match (in viola's case she only came forward).

The few times that she stepped (while she was actually in range to be a threat) you nailed her with your own sidestep 88B or you CH'd her with 3B as she was in her attack. You didn't really have to use any sort of horizontal move to contain her.

PS: congrats on the marriage !

 

[LAU]

After SE B on block, you scored a pair of CH 3(B) combos. I prefer trying BB (and hit confirming the last B) for more damage and safety as the opponent is much more likely to try an interrupt if they block SE B up close. Obviously up close, if they dont take the bait and just hold guard, entering 3(B) at that range is not my favourite thing to do.

I don't know how you managed to sustain so much SE pressure, maybe the online lag factor helped freeze up the viola player. In fact, you stepped a lot more than the viola player, which may reflect either your playstyle. Luckily that makes the matchup much easier if the opponent plays a forward/backward pacing type match (in viola's case she only came forward).

The few times that she stepped (while she was actually in range to be a threat) you nailed her with your own sidestep 88B or you CH'd her with 3B as she was in her attack. You didn't really have to use any sort of horizontal move to contain her.

PS: congrats on the marriage !

Thanks for the feedback... haha.. yeah.. got married last year... but it really put a even bigger stop to my time that i can spend on gaming... :P

I managed to do a lot of SE pressure... is when i noticed..... he didn't react to the usual "anti-prep/SE" stuff that i was used to... this tells me he doesn't exactly have the best anti-Raph game down and since this is a tournament I'll take advantage of that... which is kinda the reason why i knew I could kinda continue pressure after SE B

nice tip on BB(B) after SE B blocked.. never thought of that....

i'm honestly a bit upset about the match overall though...

the first A throw... was really bad luck with me pressing a B move at the same time... which lead to my death...

and the final CE... i THOUGHT I saw him move which is why i pull out the "random"CE which also ended up killing me.... i think if i was given another chance probably will perform better

-LAU

 

[Gojira]

The only advice I can give against Viola is if you have meter you really should GI the fuck out of that ball. That's just my personal take, though. I feel like GI in this game is almost necessary against Viola pressure, no matter who you're playing.

 

[Kojiro_Kirijo]

Four new videos against Pyrrha andOmega Pyrrha. I thought people might find interesting things to point out in these tough match-ups. Lots of mistakes due to online play : I tend to try and backstep too often and I pay the price of it. As usual, feel free to criticize.

VS Pyrrha

Spoiler

VS Omega Pyrrha

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[Kojiro_Kirijo]

The taunt was a mistake. I know it's suicide in the middle of battle all the more as I was really close to my opponent lol. Indeed lots of mistakes I'm aware of but I simply forget to correct them. Bad habits, that's all. Thanks for the feedback, man.

 

[WuHT]

Hey how come you guys haven't contributed more videos ?? http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRR8crsil9D2-qG7Zl3ZXiw needs filling up!

Anyways, here is a small batch. All comments, advice, questions are welcome.

I try to make sure it "appears" the opponent at least is familiar with Raphael, because there doesn't seem to be too much of a point of trading character ignorance vs character ignorance (because I myself am very weak in character knowledge and certain matchups).

Ren_27 as the Yoshi.

4(B)~PrepBBB whiff at about 2:25. What do you guys recommend after a FC 3B guard burst ? 66(B)~PrepA+B combo instead ?

Egg as the other yoshi. A lot more cautious and a lot more guard fakes. Makes me panic a bit by simply dashing forward, guarding and repeating. Luckily he was gentlemanly enough to heal me a bit in the 2nd round.

 

[WuHT]

Raphael Mirror. Uni_lunax i believe.
33B seems to be highly effective! Also I underestimate how strong SE K is.. I need to implement that in my game more. Clean hit, CH 236B is also pretty good damage! You get to see 66A magic at 0:53.

leixia helmed by xicott. Originally I was thinking wow, this leixia did not respect my frames and kept attacking and pressing forward. and giving me no breathing room Once my guard burst was flashing red, by the 2nd round I realized that it was quite a strategy.
One lesson i learned, is that if you catch someone doing a 44B with your own 3(B), you better not bother entering SE because they'll likely try 44B again.

Patrkolus controlled by shot_putter73. Not sure if this patroklus had good anti Raph, because it seemed early on he tried to outspace me. Wonderful Prep K attempts at 0:38 after prepA(B) on HIT, which still can't contain step. Got a lucky 1 hit with prep K BE at 1:22, after prep B(B) on block though, and got the 180 glitch.

 

[darkfender]

Gratz good raph, i'll put observations based on my playstyle


If i can ask, why did you never punish leixia 3B with 6BB or K or 2A?
Also 11K nto 4A+B :D (works better after you make opponent notice that 2a will clash).

That pat lacks antiraph imho: 3B really is a pain (kill not only all prep option except a succesfful aGI from prep4 but also kills many raph moves the range is huge despite not seeming so) and leads to more damage he got...he would ve won more rounds.
Infact is one of the reason patroklos can gable ducks all the time against raph....damage he gets from a single correct guess (even a blocked 33B or an high) is enough to turn the tide of the round.

Also he didn t use 1K and 1B and throws that at close range are OP.

Mirror: FC3B is the better answer on prep block imho mostly because you can duck and then decide again will beat most options.

Overall i saw you don t like 66B as pressure tool at close range....
It gives nice advantage, can be stopped, and most layers ignores that it negates step with prepBB (10-7=3 frames of following B) its nice to test opponent reaction to the move.

Same for 44AB,BB (anything then a FC or TC move will be beaten)

Ok those are "gimmicks" but they works a lot against any sort of opponent (because who cares about raph XD is low tier....people just study his 4-5 most famous mixups and ignore the rest).


Also i learned (weren t you or gohan to suggest it) to use 236B against 8wring opponent at distance...its not abusable but it works and provide some damage really needed.

P.S: also did i say how much i love 11K?
P.P.S: i recorded some match also but my savefile of scV got corrupted Q_Q lost everything....not only matches.

 

[WuHT]

Gratz good raph, i'll put observations based on my playstyle
If i can ask, why did you never punish leixia 3B with 6BB or K or 2A?

I agree I kept messing up!

Also 11K nto 4A+B :D (works better after you make opponent notice that 2a will clash).

lol the only reason i tried that was because I heard it was good from you. don't worry though, it has landed for me when the opponent is against the wall for some juicy damage.

That pat lacks antiraph imho

Yeah I got that impression and I didn't really feel pressure much from him. I kept the video only for the prep K showing though.

Mirror: FC3B is the better answer on prep block imho mostly because you can duck and then decide again will beat most options.

Agree on this or I should implement QS 33KB to beat prep 4 attempts as well.

Overall i saw you don t like 66B as pressure tool at close range....
It gives nice advantage, can be stopped, and most layers ignores that it negates step with prepBB (10-7=3 frames of following B) its nice to test opponent reaction to the move.

Same for 44AB,BB (anything then a FC or TC move will be beaten)

On paper its really good but I think I don't use it that much because I have a very tough time knowing when the opponent will just stand and guard up close (to allow 66B not to whiff) because I mentally imagine they'll try to QS 80% of the time.

P.S: also did i say how much i love 11K?
P.P.S: i recorded some match also but my savefile of scV got corrupted Q_Q lost everything....not only matches.

Hah, I'm on the 33B boat, but in no way is 11K unusable. Bad news on the SC5 corrupt file. Then again, the player gets to keep his skills though.

WuHT, Im...speechless!!! Can't really describe how Im feeling right now but Im literally crying tears of joy right now!!! You have an awesome Raph, the best Ive seen so far!!!! You really kicked their butts. Your movement, strategies, and style is really strong and effective. You step before going for certain verticals or even horizontals and you anticipate the opponent well.

I tried to cherry pick videos that showed competent opponents. Now that I think about it, I need to post videos where I lose, but hopefully in a close match as opposed to 0-3. I get steam rolled badly sometimes, getting rung out twice in a match. Luckily those videos don't show good gameplay or anything worth watching/learning on Raph's end so I didnt' have to suffer the embarassment of uploading those.

So 66A can whiff/be stepped past tip range???

The opposite. That move for some reason has no hitbox to the side at close range. 66A is really reliable at tip/mid range so don't worry about throwing that out. That other raph whiffed because I got really close and I got lucky with that opening.

Imo all you really have to watch out for are his big damage lows. If you block those well, you should be fine. I think some of Yoshi's lows are punishable but I don't know Yoshi that well.

And his big damage mids are rather scary. If you can't react in time and resort to anticipation, his 50/50 will kill you. I still have some trouble spotting FC 3K and 214A, but FC 3K is 236B punishable if you're curious.

 

[Leonyx]

Awesome gameplay footage man! I feel like I shouldn't be giving you any advice, since you're clearly at a higher level than I am, but in the first Yoshimitsu video, you hit a lot of blocked Prep entries and were kinda stuck. It was especially bad when you did it pushing him against the corner, since there's no pushback from that. I felt like you saw it working the first couple of times (as you got a few nice SE dodges), so you kept trying for it, and the Yoshimitsu caught on.

I normally go for the 4(B) combo... If 33K BE works, you could try that.

 

[WuHT]

I feel like I shouldn't be giving you any advice

Do i ever seem like an elitist type guy here? Hopefully I haven't given you that impression.

but in the first Yoshimitsu video, you hit a lot of blocked Prep entries and were kinda stuck. It was especially bad when you did it pushing him against the corner, since there's no pushback from that. I felt like you saw it working the first couple of times (as you got a few nice SE dodges), so you kept trying for it, and the Yoshimitsu caught on.

Hmm I actually like prep entries up close sometimes, because then prepA will actually hit. I know that prepK gets really crummy at tracking to raph's right up close (like 0 tracking as it mysteriously ghosts through). Most of the time I get blown up for entering prep on block is when the opponent is at a range outside of prepA where I can't stop them from stepping, (ie, out of SE K range). I also like prep at long range (obvious raph preference). I don't like prep at middle range, where it is too ambiguous for me so when the opponent tries to gamble, they win with superior risk/reward

I normally go for the 4(B) combo...

Yeah it was a pain that 4(B)~ gave the stupid pushback that prevented the 2nd hit of prepBB from connecting. I actually had a gut feeling right at that moment it was out of range, but decided to try for it anyways.

 

[TSAO_YING]

Raphael Mirror. Uni_lunax i believe.
33B seems to be highly effective! Also I underestimate how strong SE K is.. I need to implement that in my game more. Clean hit, CH 236B is also pretty good damage! You get to see 66A magic at 0:53.

leixia helmed by xicott. Originally I was thinking wow, this leixia did not respect my frames and kept attacking and pressing forward. and giving me no breathing room Once my guard burst was flashing red, by the 2nd round I realized that it was quite a strategy.
One lesson i learned, is that if you catch someone doing a 44B with your own 3(B), you better not bother entering SE because they'll likely try 44B again.

Patrkolus controlled by shot_putter73. Not sure if this patroklus had good anti Raph, because it seemed early on he tried to outspace me. Wonderful Prep K attempts at 0:38 after prepA(B) on HIT, which still can't contain step. Got a lucky 1 hit with prep K BE at 1:22, after prep B(B) on block though, and got the 180 glitch.

nicely done, I hate Lexia!

 

[Saphen]

Raphael Mirror. Uni_lunax i believe.
33B seems to be highly effective! Also I underestimate how strong SE K is.. I need to implement that in my game more. Clean hit, CH 236B is also pretty good damage! You get to see 66A magic at 0:53.


leixia helmed by xicott. Originally I was thinking wow, this leixia did not respect my frames and kept attacking and pressing forward. and giving me no breathing room Once my guard burst was flashing red, by the 2nd round I realized that it was quite a strategy.
One lesson i learned, is that if you catch someone doing a 44B with your own 3(B), you better not bother entering SE because they'll likely try 44B again.


Patrkolus controlled by shot_putter73. Not sure if this patroklus had good anti Raph, because it seemed early on he tried to outspace me. Wonderful Prep K attempts at 0:38 after prepA(B) on HIT, which still can't contain step. Got a lucky 1 hit with prep K BE at 1:22, after prep B(B) on block though, and got the 180 glitch.

Nice games WuHT. And sorry about not getting videos in the groups myself. Life gave me a few unfortunate events that required my attention the past month or two.

Since your Raph makes mine look like a monkey is playing it (which is true of course) id like to ask you a couple of questions.

1. You never seem to do just a plain old regular GI. In fact I don't see many Raph's using it period. Am I wasting meter by using it? Should I be using auto gi's out of certain moves instead?

2. Is there any way to actually land a Prep K BE with out luck? I can never seem to get it.

3. How mad was that Lexia when you kicked her arse out of the ring? :P

 

[Leonyx]

Do i ever seem like an elitist type guy here? Hopefully I haven't given you that impression.

You haven't been giving that impression, it's just that when someone is a better player than me, it doesn't feel right for me to give them advice, as I could be completely wrong about it.

2. Is there any way to actually land a Prep K BE with out luck? I can never seem to get it.

I know I'm not WuHT, but I can answer this one. You have to train your opponent to either duck after Prep entries, attack during an SE transition, or step when a Prep entry hits. If your opponent is really aggressive when you're in Prep, Prep K BE hits more often than not.

 

[WuHT]

1. You never seem to do just a plain old regular GI. In fact I don't see many Raph's using it period. Am I wasting meter by using it? Should I be using auto gi's out of certain moves instead?

Bad habits developed from playing online SC4. I don't think you should ever completely write off something like GIing, but considering that you will use meter to do it, I dont' feel like I have amazing followups , and the best I can think of is 66(B)~prepA+B that is guaranteed.

Considering meter usage: While I keep preaching it, I'm not a very good CH fisher with 6BB BE but that imo is a much more impactful useage of meter. No other move from neutral from Raph can do that much CH damage save for wallsplats, unblockables, or meter usage. 4(B)~prepBBB 85A+B may not always work due to the current pushback from 4(B) being buggy.

2. Is there any way to actually land a Prep K BE with out luck? I can never seem to get it.

Gotta know the player more. Thankfully, when your opponent's side is near a wall, they are more likely to step away from the wall so that should be a good indicator. Otherwise its not hit confirmable so its completely anticipatory to justify the awesome rewards on hit.

3. How mad was that Lexia when you kicked her arse out of the ring? :P

Odd time for her to crouch. I did do some exaggerated dashes around her to make her think I was setting up for a B+G grab against the wall. However, if that move did not ring out I'm not sure If I could beat her panic buttons once we're both at low life.