Regarding FSAK

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Damn, Dman, we should've talked at FSAK. Would've talked to you during the match, but Kilik was getting raped and I don't talk to my victims while I'm putting in work!

I'm big on pillow talk though.
 
lol @ RTD for making this a great thread!

and malek's post sounds similar to somebody talking in the USA...hmmm who could it be?
 
lol next time LostProvidence, and I plan on getting better.

And I agree man the only thing to do is to try to do better next time. Make it so that no one can attempt to mess around with the rules and disqualify those who do.

I think all the hostility will do nothing good. It will only split an already small community. Top players will want to still play each other so they go to the same events, everyone who's stuck on what happened won't support those events and go to separate events, People will role with who they are cool with or the competition they prefer, etc etc etc and it's an endless domino effect until we end up with smaller communities. SC5 will come out and this whole thing will start over again because we cant just work things out.
 
I have been to busy with class for the last 2 weeks or so to post anything in detail. I still have yet to do props and I still plan to.
Someone tipped me off to this thread though since I didn't notice it.

I'll keep this as short as possible since I'm still at work.

Oofmatic I have lost all respect for you and to me that is big since I had nothing but the most respect for you. I genuinely think highly of all the Canadians I met except Vincent and Dino but that's a personal matter. Your main point for me throwing the match is 100% wrong. It had absolutely nothing to do with money. Did you know how much money I left there with. I'll tell you $120 for 3rd which Mick pretty much took from me in our MM and $50 from Woahhzz for giving him the win out of generosity. Me throwing the match was pure tactics. I did not split. So for you to assume such a case and make it the basis of your argument means your a Dick. At least get your shit straight.

Malek said it best in his post. Him and Woahhzz were tied and I am Woahhzz's last match a U.S. east coast resident. I'm the one in the defining predicament with 4 losses guaranteed third in either situation. Ask me do I beat Woahhzz cause I'm more likely to win me vs him specifically and strip the the U.S and my east coast friend of the title when I would still end up 3rd or do I lose and stop France from taking it. Even if I played Woahhzz I would still have thrown it. Yup that is correct and kept the victory for the U.S. Besides that I was playing handicapped and subpar that day anyway. Chances are he could have beaten me.

Last but not least your outburst is weak and pathetic so I have one thing to say to you. If u choose not to come to U.S. who gives a shit based on your reasons for doing so. Like RTD said as an example you can and will be replaced. In all honesty I would care but not under the context of your argument which sounds like an attention where. So bye I will not miss you as long as your reason for leaving still stands. That is as grown up as I will be on the.matter.

Also these kind of tactics has been going down in games for ages. For an example the Texas tournament I went to a throwing of a match within a bracket was done for me to leave with a significantly lower chance of winning and guess what happened. I got robbed of first and ended up in 2nd but I have no hard feelings and respect it because it was strategic. No money was involved just like this case just pure tactics. Something to think about.
 
No SU Ivy would have kicked your ass either way. And you lied to me punk, I asked you in the stream if you had actually fought woahhzz, damn liar.

OOF I here people lost motivation to travel for the game when you picked...(insert random character).
 
I had no choice but to KingAce. It was while I was commentating that you asked that question. I had to do what I had to. Also looking at this thread again for the first time I am disheartened. I have way to much respect for Malek to throw such a defining match against someone who travelled so far and has been nothing but good to me and funded me in advance behind the scenes for Cannes among other things to throw the match over money.

For making it look that way Oofmatic you are officially written off. It's sad to seeing how I vouch for you on all things and even to offer to pay for you when byou need food or whatever at tournaments, etc. So let me make this clear. Even for someone like Malek I would still throw a defining match if it was to keep a title in the SC wars. However I would never throw a match cause of money when it comes to someone like Malek. I do have have a heart and integrity etc. Don't try to make things seem the other way around. Also for reference Malek and some Frenchies do what it takes to win when they have to also with no shame. I still remember the RTD hat Cannes debacle where people really stripped him of the hat to win. I still remember at internationals how Malek tried to rob me of our crucial match from a controller freeze cause he wanted the win. But in the end there is still a level of respect there.

Contrary to all the bickering you see between me and some people like Mick on here we are friends first and foremost. Don't get things twisted as its all in good fun, strategy, and ways to bring hype. Also a couple of people knew about what I did and most understood and respected it for their hometown. People who font even fucking show up you wouldn't know anythig about anything unless you were there and in the predicament.
 
rofl...so...stripping a hat and taking a round because of a controller freeze (a standard rule worldwide) is equal to this?

wow.
 
This thread is misleading and funny. I lose no face value other than those who disliked me in the first place. The only thing I have left to say is the players who show up and play will understand just like a number did when I was there. But perhaps the only thing I care about is this.

Malek do you feel I betrayed you after me clearing up the issue that it was not for money and more about tactics. If so please state it hear cause to me that is all that matters. People who have met me in person from this site know me in person and almost all have no quarrels with me as a person in person. So I ask u do u feel I have done something to make u think less of me as a person. That is the only thing I feel I would have lost here.
 
so doing shady stuff in the game is bad, doing shady stuff outside the game is ok

glad we're clear on this stuff
 
Tiamat

This is only big cause SU did it. This kind of stuff has been done before in multiple games many times. The funny thing on top of that is I didn't come up wih the idea nor did I pitch it. But I have enough respect for my fellow peers to take the blunt of the blame. In fact I was asked to do so.
 
Nigga, you don't get to talk in the third-person. LostProvidence on the other hand.
 
So I finally sat down and read every single comment in this thread.

Clarification:

The main issue here is that the throwing of the match was based on MONEY. Oofmatic had an issue with the throwing of the match as well as the MONEY. More importantly the MONEY. On those grounds I can see where some people would be upset so let's clarify once again.

THERE WAS NO SPLIT POT. The funds I obtained was a grand total of $120.00 for 3rd place. Then out of generosity for throwing the match I was later rewarded with $50.00. The grounds for me throwing the match were based on the simple fact that Woahhzz and Malek had the exact same losses (2 a piece). I was in 3rd with 4 losses. I also happened to be Woahhzz's last and final match so the choice fell on me and me only in the end.

Scenario 1:

Beat Woahhzz and give him a 3rd loss since it just so happens that even though Woahhzz uses Ivy that me vs. him is still often in my favor. In doing so the U.S would have lost the entire tournament at the hands of me who was already in 3rd period.

Scenario 2:

Lose to Woahhzz whether it is a result of not playing or playing and throwing the match and let Malek take another win from the U.S and leave with the title.

People who one, do not travel for tournaments and only ramble behind their computers you just simply wouldn't understand. Its a huge choice and I made the decision to throw it because....

1. I wanted the U.S. to win most of all.
2. I was asked to do so (Yup that is correct and a number of people knew about it. However names will remain unnamed).
3. Woahhzz is also my friend and a east coast resident (Other people have done this and made sacrifices in the past).

With that said if it came down to the exact same situation again I would still do it and be proud of it. Those are my reasons.

So to clarify once again. This had nothing to do with money as the $120 I won for 3rd Mick took from our MM. The $50 that was given to me was through generosity. Nothing more nothing less.

So after that clarification if there is still people who are upset at me for whatever reason besides the usual I say other than the misleading of it being about MONEY when its not this is only as big as it is because S-U did it. The proof for that is simple. It has been done before time and time again in multiple video games before me both under the radar and over the radar. People throw matches to maintain a better outcome for there own. I gave such an example for that reason tournament in TX similar to ShadowG's pitch earlier in the thread which is pure reality about my recent 2nd placing in that TX tournament. A key match was thrown for the very reason of knocking me out without being played. That is just and example of things that happen.

If you are a competitor (you know someone who doesn't sit behind their desk) you will not be mad at something like this just like I wasn't but accept it because it is good strategy. Its the reality of how things go down and I am not the creator of such a technique.

Malek:

With all the above said Malek I hope u see this post and realize (because I do care) that it was not about MONEY (which was a false accusation) and about the simple fact of this...

1. I wanted the U.S. to win most of all.
2. I was asked to do so (Yup that is correct and a number of people knew about it. However names will remain unnamed).
3. Woahhzz is also my friend and a east coast resident (Other people have done this and made sacrifices in the past).

If after such clarification I have did you wrong as a person on moral grounds outside of tournament tactics please inform me. I just needed to clarify.

LostProvidence said:
Nigga, you don't get to talk in the third-person. LostProvidence on the other hand.
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STFU hoe! You still ain't shit and third person is now dubbed mine lol :).
 
OOFMATIC said:
I won't mention names because I don't want to be the one to bring people into this, thought I'm sure names will be brought up soon enough. But anyways the first example of what happened went like this; "player A" had about 5 losses or so, "player B" had many more losses. If player A loses any more, he will be out of the top 5. They played each other. Player B wins. Player A asks player B to LIE and report it as a win for player A because at this point player B is too far behind in the tournament, and player A wants to try to stay in top 5 so he can get some money.
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This strikes me as nothing wrong, if a round robin format is ever sensible. I can't see a way to escape this possibility. I mean, they could play the match and B could throw it any way. You can never stop a thrown match. We aren't sponsored.

The lying is nonsense really, though. If it were found results were misrepresented, that's fraudulence and a breach of integrity and we shouldn't stand for it, as no organized tournament institution would.

What we know in bracket format is that a thrown match can never do a player good because he still will not beat the players that are willing and able to beat him (the principle of outcomes determined by skill), and he won't advance. It impacts common sense that a player could profit from not beating a player, but he only 'did better', he didn't actually pick up money. As said, there's no way you can prevent this. A match can be thrown.


The second goes like this. There is player S, player W, and player M. Player M is a very special guest who has traveled from a country far far away, and works hard for his legitimate wins... Player S is in 3rd, and player M and W can either get 1st or 2nd, based on the yet to happen match between S and W. If player S and player W would play, and player S won, player M would have gotten 1st place. So player S and player W devise a plan to ensure player M doesn't win. Player S and W decide to not even play, and decide to LIE and report it as a win for player W anyways, thus eliminating any possibility for player M to win 1st place.
Click to expand...

This is a problem with the tournament procedure. That's it. If S and/or W can profit beyond M without competing with M, the scoring system is flawed. S and W revealed this fact about the scoring system, for which any observer thinking about the future looking at the question of how to develop a scoring system can be thankful.

While I don't see the truth of this second point clearly at all: somehow I doubt that this problem is as inescapable for Round Robins as the first mentioned scenario.

Again, the misrepresentation is really bogus. A match has to be played, or officially recorded as a concession at least (if we want to allow that - one point that may be made is that we want all matches to actually be played, ideally, you know, to watch them and teach something to spectators). But if they had just doctored the outcome by having W win, I don't see anything to stop this. Inherent truths are things we have to change ourselves to deal with, we can't rage to change them.


And that is how the simplicity of this appears to me. Anything else is a debate about whether events are about winning or about demonstrating something else in play.
I've assumed the normative goal is winning, but the rules are supposed to support that and if they don't, following them and later patching them is the only methodology I can support categorically.

If lying and misrepresenting were proved to have occurred, I would think ostracizing those players would be a matter of course. But it's just so odd to think that would happen...


To the larger question of playing out matches... I like that idea. However, I don't think any penalty beyond the 'shame' of "having played like garb" could reasonably be thrown on any player, for doing that and only that, from the perspective of the blind rules. If X throws a match to Y, X will get some blame for playing like garb, and unless the match is thrown cunningly everyone will "know" what happened... but the tournament setup should be, because it has to be, because it's the only thing that can be, what stops this 'trick' from actually putting the appropriate dispensation of justice winnings rankings in the finalists' hands.
 
Hmm SU i dont think many people thinks YOU did this for money, but yes you betrayed Malek on HIS money, didnt you? He payed a fortune to visit the US the second time now, he payed a fortune to bring the broke US players like yourself to France, he is probably the most active player when it comes to tournaments and therefore supporting this game like no other and then you betray him JUST FOR THE SAKE OF NOT LETTING HIM WIN. Thats so fucked up i dont even know what to say....Lol now you can claim the US is top by cheating...yay for not having any honour at all i guess. And this is not directly to you but to anybody who actually supports this^^

Its mindblowing how people defend this, what a weak ass attitude. Actually i planned on coming to the US next year for a tourney, but seeing that there are players who will do everything to to make sure I WONT WIN anything, why the fuck would any foreigner come to visit your rigged US tourneys at all now?

Im not gonna pay thousands of dollars when i know people will cheat on me because their buddy is from the east coast.
 
In the eyes of some it is a tactic not a cheating method for victory! Its a dispute in opinion. These tactics go down in all competitions including real life sports. It happens everyday all the time or at least quite often.

I don't feel I betrayed Malek at all especially since he kind of understands the win mentality. I have heard things from Malek from small to major about winning.

I still remember the Koga Invitationals tourney he won and how he said because there was lag on the tv in Jaxels room he used 22K a whole lot more. I still remember him knowing the fact that in our internationals tourney match my controller went off synced to the system with the cord in (completely out of my hands) and he still took the match. Where is the honor there? I remember in France what you guys did to RTD and the hat thing.

Its all dirty under handed tricks to win which are all valid in tournament situations period. the post above you explains some of the value as well. Whether its cheating or a tactic is completely 50/50. No definition is right or wrong on the grounds of valid competition when the goal is to win.

I respect Malek a lot and he knows it and at the end of the day as a competitor based on his post he understands. One thing I would like to say though is Malek and another who payed for my trip to France are still in my good faith both as people who helped me get out there and as friends. If at anytime either of them wish to come out here they can ask for my help at anytime and both of them know it. So money is not a factor. Competition was the factor!
 
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