Reverse Edge needs a nerf

damn-I-Suck said:
I always took issue with execution in general, as an artificial barrier that means nothing. Why would you restrict moves to people except those who spent hours in training mode? This is not exactly an enjoyable use of time instead of, you know, playing the game.
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I mean, the game is still being played (in a way the person who enjoys high-execution characters feels fine playing) so I'm not sure that this makes sense.
 
Ukkesh said:
While i'm thinking about it, people act as if RE is rock-paper-scissors at every level. Every character has specific options that provide them with more rewards, and some that don't really give anything much other than protection. There is also the dip out options, like 4,7,9. etc.
It might be worth learning some more Matchups.
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Isn t that pure rock paper scissor philosophy?
Your friends usually prefers to go rock so you could go paper, but you also know this time is important for him and thus could go scissor.

In the end most time he will go random and NO WAY you have enough data to make a plan… you simply push your luck with the illusion of having thought the correct result.

Evasion buttons are one of the worse bet (33% with no followup).
And this is why people hates it.
 
Recommended reading:
In this article, a large amount of people repeatedly play rock, paper, and scissors against each other and the results are:

“Upon review of the results, Wang did find numbers that backed up the Nash Equilibrium theory [i.e. neither player gains anything from implementing a strategy other than choosing uniformly randomly from his options] coming into play. He also found the above-mentioned pattern: winners were the players who stayed loyal to their strategy and losers were the players who switched. In game theory, this is called “conditional response.” In fact, the conditional strategy proved to be 10 percent more reliable for winning than did the Nash Equilibrium.”

From this, you should definitely be more cautious in using the Nash Equilibrium. Of course, we did find the Nash Equilibrium for Rock, Paper, and Scissors but we cannot say that will be the best strategy. In fact, often times it’s not (as we have found out in class). Thus, as shown in class and here, we can find the Nash Equilibrium in cases where there are more than two choices but we also need to be careful when applying it – even if it’s a game as simple as Rock, Paper, and Scissors.
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Then consider that the Nash Equilibrium depends on the different rewards characters get from their RE options, which are also context dependent (Astaroth's RE B is much more rewarding on ringout stages, for example).

It's quite a complex mechanic, and just choosing your options "randomly" (which humans aren't capable of), even if you weight the probabilities by their relative payoff, doesn't necessarily net you the best results.
 
darkfender said:
Isn t that pure rock paper scissor philosophy?
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No, it's not. Risk and reward are equal in RPS. RPS analogies don't really apply to contexts where certain choices are more rewarding than others. You don't get extra points for winning with scissors instead of rock, but you might get extra damage or better positioning from certain RE follow ups. E.G if Asta REs with his back to the ring edge, you'd better be ready not to insta-lose to RE B.
 
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It took my kids ages 12 and 10 only twenty minutes to realize RE is a broken mechanic.

The fact that people still havent realized that RE favors the player who uses it substantially due to it's catch all is beyond me.

The fact that people still dont realize it's brokeness because they side stepped it that one time makes me realize it wont get patched.
 
Tha_Shogun said:
It took my kids ages 12 and 10 only twenty minutes to realize RE is a broken mechanic.

The fact that people still havent realized that RE favors the player who uses it substantially due to it's catch all is beyond me.

The fact that people still dont realize it's brokeness because they side stepped it that one time makes me realize it wont get patched.
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A+B
 
damn-I-Suck said:
A+B
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A+B doesnt become unblockable, eat all none GB 50/50 mix ups, is less than i30, can still get whiff punished, easily interuptable, doesnt parry CE, doesnt give Soul Charge for pressing it, set up for multiple strings, or character advantaged based.

But you know what RE can also do? Interupt another RE and GI
 
Tha_Shogun said:
It took my kids ages 12 and 10 only twenty minutes to realize RE is a broken mechanic.

The fact that people still havent realized that RE favors the player who uses it substantially due to it's catch all is beyond me.

The fact that people still dont realize it's brokeness because they side stepped it that one time makes me realize it wont get patched.
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If you have the same opinion as 2 very young children who have 20m of experience with the game... well that devalues your opinion more than adds to it imo.
 
REVERSAL EDGE STARTS UP NOTICEABLY SLOWER THAN BOTH SOUL CHARGE AND GUARD IMPACT. SOUL CHARGE IS MUCH MORE RELIABLE FOR ESCAPING UNDESIRABLE SITUATIONS. ALSO, REVERSAL EDGE IS EASY TO BAIT WITH SOMETHING SIMPLE LIKE aG/bG. FINALLY, REVERSAL EDGE IS SURPRISINGLY EASY TO SIDE RUN AFTER A SAFE MOVE IS ABSORBED (OR IF RE IS SEMI-CHARGED). COUNTERING WITH A+B IS MORE FOR HARD READS.

I WOULD ACTUALLY PREFER IF THE RISK/REWARD FOR REVERSAL EDGE MINI GAME WERE TRULY ROCK/PAPER/SCISSORS. IT WOULD BE MUCH FAIRER IN TERMS OF DAMAGE OUTPUT AND MAKE FOR BETTER MIND GAMES, IMO.
 
IN SC5, JUST GUARD WAS ACTUALLY OVERPOWERED. SC6'S REVERSAL EDGE IS FAIRER BY COMPARISON, BUT IT COULD USE SOME WORK STILL. SOME CHARACTERS' WHIFFED REVERSAL EDGE SEEM TO RECOVER FASTER THAN OTHERS, OR IT PUTS THEM AT AWKWARD ANGLES ONLY ALLOWING FOR MEDIOCRE WHIFF PUNISHMENT. OVERALL THOUGH, I HAVEN'T YET NOTICED REVERSAL EDGE TO BE OVERWHELMING TO DEAL WITH. THE COMPLAINTS SEEM EXCESSIVE SO FAR. IT WILL BE INTERESTING TO SEE IF I CHANGE MY MIND IN THE COMING MONTHS.
 
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I think people are just cranky and don't want to adjust to the new meta/mechanics. SCVI isn't SC < VI, and people trying to play it like that are getting stomped by those making full use of the new mechanics. Adapt or die, no? I expect RE blowups to be among the highlights of watching this game at a high level, tbh.
 
I agree that it doesn't need a nerf, however it's still annoying and it's an interrupting cutscene with no meter attached to it.
 
Reversal edge is fine for me but I do think is better if it used some of your meter so prevent spamming at any random moment for more strategic use.
 
I don't if anyone mentioned this but if you have a character that has long strings (ie Maxi Sophie, taki etc) you can blow up RE with that too. The reason why is because you can only hold RE for so long. Then it releases

So anyone getting constantly hit by that when there's 3 ways to blow it up just isn't doing what they need to do imo.
 
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Zekiel said:
I don't if anyone mentioned this but if you have a character that has long strings (ie Maxi Sophie, taki etc) you can blow up RE with that too. The reason why is because you can only hold RE for so long. Then it releases

So anyone getting constantly hit by that when there's 3 ways to blow it up just isn't doing what they need to do imo.
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I might say my experience tells the opposite.
Did you test this or is it just an impression?
After having a full prep string blocked by an RE i wonder how many moves lasts THAT long...
 
darkfender said:
I might say my experience tells the opposite.
Did you test this or is it just an impression?
After having a full prep string blocked by an RE i wonder how many moves lasts THAT long...
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It's not my impression. It depends on the character.

For example Maxi 4AAAB And B, ROB,LOBK beats out a fully charged RE from the start. If used mid way through a string, I just bait it out with a side step or Break attack.

But like l said it varies from character to character. Some characters don't have this option.
 
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