SC2 to SC4 comparison

hotnikkelz said:
SC2 Maxi would be better in SC4, and SC4 Maxi would be better in SC2 lol.

SC2 Maxi had very very bad tracking, that was his biggest weakness imo. Like u could easily step ALL his stance shit, everything. Step BB, step 4BB etc. And they weren't safe either. AT least 4BG and BG and AAG were safe so he was far easier to play.
The power of Step G in SC2 system made things difficult for ihm.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry....I don't agree with this at all. Step Maxi easily in SC2? B,A,K anybody? That RO A was fast and RO A,K was NC in SC2, not NCC like this shitty ass version. 3B from Nightmare? Sure, was a great move but Maxi could PSL4 all day to his Nightmare's right and evade that move, plus you could easily step it. AA was HELLA fast (i11) in SC2....boy do I miss the days when Maxi had quick basics, not this SC4 i14 A bullshit. SC2 66A ring a bell? safe horizontal mid,mid 60 damage....and you could choose what you want to do after. step, GI, try an 2A to interrupt an anticipated slow move, simply guard and maybe wait to break a grab or block a low. SC3 and 4's 66A sucks balls....you're risking getting the first hit blocked, second hit ducked and punished (really hard depending on the character). All the good stuff he had in SC2 is nerfed in this version, you name it, nerfed. 6A+B...seriously nerfed in range, damage, and TC frames. 66A....already said before. 236B....this move was the shiznit in SC2....SAFE, long range, knockdown mid. I'm sorry, SC2 Maxi owns this SC4 Maxi hands down. Sadly, I think only Mofo and MTFighter will agree with me on this....you youngins don't know what you missed.
 
KrayzieCD said:
I'm sorry, SC2 Maxi owns this SC4 Maxi hands down. Sadly, I think only Mofo and MTFighter will agree with me on this....you youngins don't know what you missed.
Click to expand...
I agree too. (Though I still carry the torch for versions of Maxi that aren't low tier.)
 
3B, RO A is a natural combo again (Like so many fucking people complained about before in SCII AND SCIII, you motherfuckers can't be pleased), with a built in unforeseeable mixup afterward on hit OR block.

The implementation of the Soul Gauge system and slower attacks have helped him, since previously punishable options like 66B+K are barely punishable now, and rock the SG like it owns it.

WS A is an unsafe high attack that is iFUCKING14 and not only TC's through the whole animation, but STEPS and KDs on any hit. It also rings out to your right and behind you, as well as kills step. iWS A is basically a slightly less broken version of X's SCIII teleport. Learn to use this fucking move.

Maxi Hyper Shield, 66B4 and all appropriate cancels. With everyone slowed down, this move and any cancel into either LI nigh-unstoppable A's / K's is very, very good. With walls or edges to your left, this move is unfair, killing step while either winning the round, obliterating their SG, or doing so much damage that it's absurd (Wall into weapon into wall into rape). This move stops everything, trust me.

33A does less damage, but is not even slightly worse than the old one. With this and 6a, step can and will always be stopped.

BT B+K is a BT move he desperately needed.

Bruce Lee kick is too fucking solid, no matter what you say no one will see it all the time, esp. if you loop into it instead of just canning it. It's +stupid on block, and does respectable SG damage.

There's more. The only way people like you, Krayzie, will get better is if you learn how to adapt to the new system FULLY, which allows much more flexibility in how offenses flow than almost any other fighting game.

People used to call SC2 Maxi garbage. Begged for SC1 Maxi. People came in and proved them wrong.
People said at the start of SC3 that Maxi was garbage. Begged for SC2 Maxi.
People once again came to the rescue, thought outside the box, proved them wrong.
Now people call SCIV Maxi garbage. They're begging for SC3 / SC2 Maxi back. These people will, again, be proven wrong.

What has happened before, will happen again. So say we all.
 
Well Kid I'll wait and see if eventually you are proven right. Sure at the start of all the games, people want the old version of their favorite character back. But how long does it take before get used to the character and they forget they even said that? I wasn't in the tourney scene at the start of SC2 but I know the reason they wanted SC1 Maxi back was because in SC1 Maxi was top fucking tier and the reasons why were fixed in SC2 so he wouldn't be so dominant. People got used to Maxi in SC2 and though he never really dominated and won many tourneys (I remember JD_OK getting 3rd at SC2 Nats and that's about it for Maxi at majors), he was still fun to play and you felt like you had a chance, even if you really didn't against the Xs, Ivys, etc. With SC3 I remember everyone wanting SC2 Maxi back....but then like you said we got used to the new Maxi, could work with his blazing fast amazing new step killing safe low, as well as a lot of other safe moves. Now that I recall, it only took a good 3 months after the game came out before people realized SC3 Maxi could compete. Now in SC4 how many months has it been already? 7 months.....and where are all the good Maxi players placing in tourneys? KDZ you gonna shine through with him in a major or a NJ monthly? I'd be happy for you or any other Maxi player to prove me wrong and show that he can compete....till then, I'm not convinced that he's gonna be taking majors, or helping someone place 2nd at a bunch of tourneys along with another top tier bitch, lol.

Anyway, the reason this whole argument started was over the debate of SC2 Maxi vs SC4 Maxi. I just think SC2 Maxi is superior to SC4 Maxi and stated reasons why. So Kid you think that SC4 Maxi is better than SC2 Maxi?
 
Krayzie:
Some aspects i like some i don't. I don't think Maxi can survive in SC2 by doing BAK and 66A all day. 66A was still steppable...and i think the last hits were even GIable. I agree with the speed issue though, i miss that A LOT. I was just playing around with the comparisons, i didn't say which was overall better. Just that i believe if they would've been better if they had switched position due to the game SYSTEM.

Also i don't think i'm a youngin.....i'm like uber old school. Me and margi ;)

KDZ:
Just to correct some things
WS A is actually i17. Sach's data was off. WS B is i16. Deathly unsafe. Free launcher on block. WL won't save u. The move is great otherwise.

66B4 is the shiznit. I use often. That and 4AB stuff.

BT B+K although is a great move...it's -20 on block. Yeah.....bs -20.

I like Bruce Lee kick too. I hardly use it though.
 
hotnikkelz said:
SC2 Maxi would be better in SC4, and SC4 Maxi would be better in SC2 lol.

SC2 Maxi had very very bad tracking, that was his biggest weakness imo. Like u could easily step ALL his stance shit, everything. Step BB, step 4BB etc. And they weren't safe either. AT least 4BG and BG and AAG were safe so he was far easier to play.
The power of Step G in SC2 system made things difficult for ihm.
Click to expand...

I don't agree with one point in this. RO B was an amazing move as far as tracking was concerned. It tracked, stepped, did good damage, had good knockback, and on hit or block it could flow into more offense.

Other than that, yes, he was a bit linear, but there were ways to condition your opponent. He still had the basic tools, as you stated.

KrayzieCD said:
I'm sorry, SC2 Maxi owns this SC4 Maxi hands down. Sadly, I think only Mofo and MTFighter will agree with me on this....you youngins don't know what you missed.
Click to expand...

I haven't played SC4 so I don't know, but I can agree with the points you made about specific moves. It breaks my heart to learn 236B was nerfed so bad.

hotnikkelz said:
66A was still steppable...and i think the last hits were even GIable.

Also i don't think i'm a youngin.....i'm like uber old school. Me and margi ;)
Click to expand...

66A was steppable only if you used it improperly. It was a neccessary tool against characters like Taki, Asta, and Talim.
Secondly, the GI of the second hit was discovered very very late in the game and not many people know about it. On top of that it's also not that easy to do (not difficult, but takes specific practice).

Nikkelz (who is apparently Johhny Blaze?). I remember when you first stepped on the scene, youngin. . =P
I'm also pretty sure I'm the one who coined the name "Margy".
 
KDZaster said:
People used to call SC2 Maxi garbage. Begged for SC1 Maxi. People came in and proved them wrong.
People said at the start of SC3 that Maxi was garbage. Begged for SC2 Maxi.
People once again came to the rescue, thought outside the box, proved them wrong.
Now people call SCIV Maxi garbage. They're begging for SC3 / SC2 Maxi back. These people will, again, be proven wrong.

What has happened before, will happen again. So say we all.
Click to expand...
JD_OK moved on to Mitsu in short order IIRC. Who else got top 3 with Maxi in a big tourney in SC2?

Only Dustbuster and some German guy said SC3 Maxi was trash as far as I can remember.

Nobody believes SC4 Maxi wins even when he does. "No anti-Maxi! Ain't real!"
 
THose 2 elbow hits?

That's LI,AA>BL now
and optionally you can still tack on the B(which which the entire thing is an NCC or can be delayed) in exchange for the stance shift
 
uhm interesting note about 236B

Every so often, this move will go off axis...when it does and a certain part of the move happens to hit, it gives off a stun. That is NOT there when the entire thing hits.

Don't know why, but it does.(actually, its been in there since SC2 and SC3 but I havn't been able to replacate it, just sorta happens in matches)
 
it steps quite well against most vert moves, but then doesn\'t really mean you get alot of free hits off it though
like a non CH RO A, or LI AA most of the time
 
Mofo: That move hasn't been available from step since SC2. In SC3 it was only available as a neutral move, so you would have to step then stop and do it which wasn't too handy. Still though, at least the move was available outside of stance. The fact that they took his best moves and put them all as available through stance only is a pain in the ass.
 
I like that WS A was the old LI A, but i also miss the old WS A haha. Why couldn't they give us both :)
I miss my standalone 3B+K which is now ONLY BL B. Tsk tsk.
Many things i miss, but many things i prefer now

Kamimofo (what was your name on GI? I don't recall this alias):
RO B was still steppable, as long as you block the attack that led into RO. More unsafe then too. I still liked it regardless cuz of the step, but it hasn't been tracking well since SC1

66A was steppable whether or not u use it properly. I say this cuz of step G. You could constantly step G in SC2 and essentially FORCE the later hits in this move to whiff. That used to blow cuz that's the most damaging part, and u're left sideturned, at disadvantage. Also I knew you could GI the last hits probably within the first week of playing Maxi. I think that was common knowledge for everyone who played him or vs him :p and it wasn't particularly hard for me, so it wouldn't be for those who are pro
 
hotnikkelz:
Firstly, I've always used this alias. It's never been anything else.

Secondly, just because RO B didn't track as well as SC1 RO B doesn't mean that it didn't track well. It did, and even if you whiffed you could input the rest of the string and move past your opponent. But this is a fairly irrelevant point. That game is long over.

Thirdly, in the 2 years I spent playing Aris and tieTYT on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, they GI'd the second hit of 66A a handful of times only. Step G was discovered after regionals I believe and only at Evo2K the following year after that did Step G and 2G have a game-changing impact on tactics, mostly noticeable with Nightmare players (Dan the Night showed up that year, you may recall).
 
Hmmm...i just don't remember this nick at all hahah sowwy :) or i probably do...but just forgot.

Well, i'm not aris and i'm not tietyt eh ;) but me and the ppl all the way down here in the caribbean knew about such things....early up. I think they were pretty fed up of my Maxi RC A/66A whorage. Also Step G was known ages ago as well. Regardless of what it may seem in the US.
Remember, not cuz the US didn't 'seem' to know at one point...doesn't mean it wasn't known/practiced before.
 
KamikazeMOFO said:
hotnikkelz:
Firstly, I've always used this alias. It's never been anything else.

Secondly, just because RO B didn't track as well as SC1 RO B doesn't mean that it didn't track well. It did, and even if you whiffed you could input the rest of the string and move past your opponent. But this is a fairly irrelevant point. That game is long over.

Thirdly, in the 2 years I spent playing Aris and tieTYT on a weekly or bi-weekly basis, they GI'd the second hit of 66A a handful of times only. Step G was discovered after regionals I believe and only at Evo2K the following year after that did Step G and 2G have a game-changing impact on tactics, mostly noticeable with Nightmare players (Dan the Night showed up that year, you may recall).
Click to expand...

rawr! *hiss*
 
i just feel like a fucking hump because after all the begging and bitching i do about 236B, they give it back to us, but with a catch. there has been one random time were im not sure what happend but i got a knockdown, but guess what, i couldnt hit them with 3B afterwards like my hands wanted to do.

the new 3B is good and i like it as a follow up after some good guard stun, but the loss of BA and just B as a poke is hard for me. also lossing 3B+K sucks dick. using it in BL sucks dick because once your out of the minimal range of BL A everyone knows to just low block.

i hate new 66A. old 66A is fucking sweet. plus it could cancel into any move you want to use not a fucking auto 33Ba.

i hate new 22_88KK. i will use it as 22K then try a grab or FC3AAA, but thats it. in sc3 after AA the RC K had a weird quick grab that i used alright. but i miss reading highs and getting 22KK then juggling with A, 33A, 66B+K, BA->pls1. i like doing JF bruce lee but depending how people air control, i like juggling better because i could stay up closer to them for more wakeup offense, instead of being way away in a fucking auto taunt.

being able to cancel LI B into two stances is good especially since we have LI AA. that shit in SC3 had me bugging out, LI to LI bullshit.

the BB in sc4 makes me sick. i dont care if its NC. chucks are supposed to be fast, with fast transitions.

the AA sucks. if it hits you better do RC A. single A poking which was my shit now sucks. with the slower speed of the game and then the slowing of the chucks getting damage is a fucking pain.

why the fuck did they take away 2bA. good ass tech crouching mid. jesus.

for me no question. SC2 Maxi. i have alot of fun with this maxi but not when someone knows how to be patient make you overextend to get damage then fuck your shit up.
 
KDZaster said:
3B, RO A is a natural combo again (Like so many fucking people complained about before in SCII AND SCIII, you motherfuckers can't be pleased), with a built in unforeseeable mixup afterward on hit OR block.

The implementation of the Soul Gauge system and slower attacks have helped him, since previously punishable options like 66B+K are barely punishable now, and rock the SG like it owns it.

WS A is an unsafe high attack that is iFUCKING14 and not only TC's through the whole animation, but STEPS and KDs on any hit. It also rings out to your right and behind you, as well as kills step. iWS A is basically a slightly less broken version of X's SCIII teleport. Learn to use this fucking move.

Maxi Hyper Shield, 66B4 and all appropriate cancels. With everyone slowed down, this move and any cancel into either LI nigh-unstoppable A's / K's is very, very good. With walls or edges to your left, this move is unfair, killing step while either winning the round, obliterating their SG, or doing so much damage that it's absurd (Wall into weapon into wall into rape). This move stops everything, trust me.

33A does less damage, but is not even slightly worse than the old one. With this and 6a, step can and will always be stopped.

BT B+K is a BT move he desperately needed.

Bruce Lee kick is too fucking solid, no matter what you say no one will see it all the time, esp. if you loop into it instead of just canning it. It's +stupid on block, and does respectable SG damage.

There's more. The only way people like you, Krayzie, will get better is if you learn how to adapt to the new system FULLY, which allows much more flexibility in how offenses flow than almost any other fighting game.

People used to call SC2 Maxi garbage. Begged for SC1 Maxi. People came in and proved them wrong.
People said at the start of SC3 that Maxi was garbage. Begged for SC2 Maxi.
People once again came to the rescue, thought outside the box, proved them wrong.
Now people call SCIV Maxi garbage. They're begging for SC3 / SC2 Maxi back. These people will, again, be proven wrong.

What has happened before, will happen again. So say we all.
Click to expand...


Alright, here comes Maxi-mum. When I first played this game, whenever the hell it came out, I was expecting a lil' more from Namco. Lets be real here first. SC 1 Maxi was the absolute best he can get. NCs all over the place, block stun from every move possible, and a looping fiend. Now when SC 2 came out, I was pissed about the NCs and 6B4 (you could actually attack out of it in SC 2) they took out, but they managed to give him some other good stuff. PSL 4 was a definite plus, 236B and 66A was great for in close attacks and was fast enough, the GCs were awesome, and 236K was perfect for my happy 4G GIing ability. Then of course, we have 6A+B. Enough said. SC 3 game along, and totally wiped the game to shreds. PSL 4 was replaced by gay sidewinders that didn't TC, 6A+B was replaced (then updated) to have a looping follow up (oops) and was still crap. I returned the game as soon as I bought it. Now, SC 4. NCs are back, but again, the bare attacks are now followed into loops. AA is unsafe to follow up on block, BB is unsafe period.

This is my concern. Leave the character how it is. He was fine in SC 2, they should have stuck with it. There was no need to change the PSL 4 or the 6A+B. I'll give X as an example. X was great in SC 1,2,3, and now a mid tier character. That's tolerable. Maxi went from excellent, great, bad, to difficult. It's a downward spiral. Leave characters how they are if they are fine. Give the characteristics back to those that need it and move on. It's not hard.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back