Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Hilde has absurd damage and 4 usable lows and 2 of them knock down and are practical, which means mixup/reset game and that is always GOOD.
She IS strong.
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SC6 Tier list for Season 2
- Thread starter Angrel-San
- Start date
She IS strong.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
She is part of the game so yes, she deserves a rank.
Also, Nightmare is NEVER stronger than Siegfried even with the free Soul Charges.
Siegfried's movement evasion and mixups are superior, damage are about the same and he doesn't have free Soul Charges but he has Dark Legacy which is dumb IMHO.
Siegfried > Nightmare.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
So first of all my list so im not rating 2b fuck that thing.
Next the Nightmare Topic. Nightmare is an amazing spot right now he got buffed repeadetly for ages while Sieg got nerfed and didnt really receive shit to make up for it.
Their damage isnt the same nightmare has about the highest damage in the game while sieg only really gets alot of damage for huge reads/ wallcombos or Lethal hits which he doesnt have alot of without dark legacy. So in order for sieg to actually deal damage he basically needs to be in dark legacy or in a really good position on the map. Otherways ist just stance pressure which is annoying as shit but the individual damage output isnt exactly amazing.
Nightmare on the other hand is a powerhouse who can easy get half your hp for a right guess on a launcher, even without terror charge.
I was never someone who downplay nightmare acting like boohhoo he doesnt have an i12 he isnt good. The guy has always been solid and in recent patches he definitely moved up to the upper end of the roster. Now after the hwang patch that greatly improved him once again yes i think he is top 5.
Next the Nightmare Topic. Nightmare is an amazing spot right now he got buffed repeadetly for ages while Sieg got nerfed and didnt really receive shit to make up for it.
Their damage isnt the same nightmare has about the highest damage in the game while sieg only really gets alot of damage for huge reads/ wallcombos or Lethal hits which he doesnt have alot of without dark legacy. So in order for sieg to actually deal damage he basically needs to be in dark legacy or in a really good position on the map. Otherways ist just stance pressure which is annoying as shit but the individual damage output isnt exactly amazing.
Nightmare on the other hand is a powerhouse who can easy get half your hp for a right guess on a launcher, even without terror charge.
I was never someone who downplay nightmare acting like boohhoo he doesnt have an i12 he isnt good. The guy has always been solid and in recent patches he definitely moved up to the upper end of the roster. Now after the hwang patch that greatly improved him once again yes i think he is top 5.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Nightmare in practice has better damage indeed because of the free Soul Charges, which no one in the game has, only him.
But without this, Astaroth, Hilde and Tira have the better damage in the game. Zasalamel as well with that stupid 80 pts semi blender game he has in Soul Charge.
However, Nightmare mixups suck. There are very few reasons to guard low against Nightmare unlike Siegfried, which he does have true 50/50s that you have to respect and his damage points are some of the highest per hit in this game. Siegfried kills you quickly AND has the moves to make you guard low, unlike Nightmare. Siegfried has better evasion as well but that's another topic but the thing is that Siegfried > Nightmare no matter how you put it.
Nightmare is a Wild Card. The free Soul Charge is ANNOYING and yes, the damage pours there but again, not many reasons to guard low against Nightmare. That's why he isn't higher and I think is fair because he never is out of the game at any given point. Can't make many mistakes against Nightmare....but that's also true about many characters.
And hell no, Nightmare ISN'T Top 5.
But without this, Astaroth, Hilde and Tira have the better damage in the game. Zasalamel as well with that stupid 80 pts semi blender game he has in Soul Charge.
However, Nightmare mixups suck. There are very few reasons to guard low against Nightmare unlike Siegfried, which he does have true 50/50s that you have to respect and his damage points are some of the highest per hit in this game. Siegfried kills you quickly AND has the moves to make you guard low, unlike Nightmare. Siegfried has better evasion as well but that's another topic but the thing is that Siegfried > Nightmare no matter how you put it.
Nightmare is a Wild Card. The free Soul Charge is ANNOYING and yes, the damage pours there but again, not many reasons to guard low against Nightmare. That's why he isn't higher and I think is fair because he never is out of the game at any given point. Can't make many mistakes against Nightmare....but that's also true about many characters.
And hell no, Nightmare ISN'T Top 5.
SenoritaMama
[09] Warrior
The reaaalll big question is, why Ivy is lower than a nerfed Amy? I mean I love Ivy! Grrr.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Ivy got nerfed repeadetly since her toptier state. She hasnt really been top 10 for while now. And even a nerfed Amy is still easily up there cause her moveset is dumb.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
They are wrong. Ignore them. (especially Foot since he is always trolling when it comes to Amy)
Amy was borderline Top before her nerfs because of her Purple bonuses. That's not the case anymore so meh....
Amy is clearly in the High Tier, no more, no less.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
There you go whatever captain Amy apologist says goes.
" Asta is top 10 because he is good when he gets into your head" (like thats not the case for everyone). (lets just ignore that he has one of the worst matchups in the game).
Amy isnt toptier because she got slightly nerfed and now almost has actual weaknesses. (which sure is alot because she definitely wasnt borderline bannable before that).
Groh is still the worst character in the game because i dont understand the buffs he got.
Azwel is still top 10 because im butthurt about season 1 and dont read patch notes.
You sure know whats up man.
" Asta is top 10 because he is good when he gets into your head" (like thats not the case for everyone). (lets just ignore that he has one of the worst matchups in the game).
Amy isnt toptier because she got slightly nerfed and now almost has actual weaknesses. (which sure is alot because she definitely wasnt borderline bannable before that).
Groh is still the worst character in the game because i dont understand the buffs he got.
Azwel is still top 10 because im butthurt about season 1 and dont read patch notes.
You sure know whats up man.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Dude, you have Hwang's avatar as mediocre when he is actually pretty good (clearly trolling)
You don't rank 2B (More trolling)
You put Groh and Nightmare as Top 5.
You keep underestimating Astaroth when PROS have said AND showed that he IS GOOD.
FYI, this is supposed to be a serious thread. No need for misinformation here. (trolling ISN'T welcome here)
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Then dont start with shit like "Ignore foot because he is trolling when it comes to amy".
2b: Excluding a character that i dont want bother with and dont have enough knowledge of to put in the list isnt trolling it just makes sense maybe you should do that as well sometimes.
Groh: I never put Groh in top 5 thats completely made up to prove your nonsense. I simply said that groh isnt the worst character like you want him to be especially not after the recent buffs he got.
Amy: Saying Amy is the strongest character in the game pre "hwang patch" isnt a ridiculous opinion either its actual a pretty popular one.
Its actually more of troll opinion coming from amy downplayers like you to make it sound like you have to work for shit.
Astaroth :Pros dont show that astaroth is good. Thats like saying Voldo is toptier because yuttoto beats people with him. Thats just yuttoto being better than the other guy. Is Asta a good tournament pick because he has scary damage? yes sure. But his entire gameplan is a guessing game that you can be lucky with or dont get anything.
And on the avatar lets enlighten you on that one. I had that avater way before he even got released because i think he is mediocre boring character.
I even said in my list that i dont have experience playing hwang and dont own the dlc but think he is probably mid to high b tier from what ive seen so far.
And of course tier lists cant be 100% accurate unless you have indepth knowledge about every single character and their frames and setups which is unrealistic.
2b: Excluding a character that i dont want bother with and dont have enough knowledge of to put in the list isnt trolling it just makes sense maybe you should do that as well sometimes.
Groh: I never put Groh in top 5 thats completely made up to prove your nonsense. I simply said that groh isnt the worst character like you want him to be especially not after the recent buffs he got.
Amy: Saying Amy is the strongest character in the game pre "hwang patch" isnt a ridiculous opinion either its actual a pretty popular one.
Its actually more of troll opinion coming from amy downplayers like you to make it sound like you have to work for shit.
Astaroth :Pros dont show that astaroth is good. Thats like saying Voldo is toptier because yuttoto beats people with him. Thats just yuttoto being better than the other guy. Is Asta a good tournament pick because he has scary damage? yes sure. But his entire gameplan is a guessing game that you can be lucky with or dont get anything.
And on the avatar lets enlighten you on that one. I had that avater way before he even got released because i think he is mediocre boring character.
I even said in my list that i dont have experience playing hwang and dont own the dlc but think he is probably mid to high b tier from what ive seen so far.
And of course tier lists cant be 100% accurate unless you have indepth knowledge about every single character and their frames and setups which is unrealistic.
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Angrel-San
[10] Knight
So now I'm a liar apparently.
Trolling I can manage but calling me a liar is where I draw the line.
To the ignore list you go.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
This was in response to you upplaying asta once again.
Someone needs a sarcasm sign.
Someone needs a sarcasm sign.
Crash X
[14] Master
The nerfs have barely slowed Amy down and her gameplan is still intact. Plus she ended up getting a few decent buffs such as a new option for getting WRP.
Raph’s always been strong and so many are still seeing that as well. He got some nerfs but he has also gotten a plentiful amount of compensation to stay there. iPrep is still to this very day one of the most oppressive things in SC6 and he’s one of the hardest matchups for so many other characters.
Compared to Amy, Ivy’s nerfs have generally been far more significant. The X-Mas tree in particular took a massive hit. She’s still a good character, but she’s far from her Season 1 and early Season 2 days.
Sophie imo is a really solid character. She plays fundamental Calibur very well and some of the best punishment in the game. All she’s really missing is a reliable low.
Azwel honestly hasn’t aged well in this game. He’s still good but he’s starting to fall out. Anything he can do with a weapon art the other characters higher than him can already do that without one. Big damage? You’ve got NM, Tira, and Cervy for that. Oppression? Cass and Raph are far more dependable.
Sieg is good and has clear strengths and weaknesses. He gets good damage from big reads, whiff punishment, good meter options, and good spacing. He’s very punishable and has some of the weakest guard punishment out in the game, and while he does have good stanceplay and mix he still has to commit to his options. Plus Sieg took some big hits to his moves in recent patches such as 3A4 getting a reduction to it’s pushback, safety, and losing it’s ability to guard crush. If he didn’t have Dark Legacy as a comeback mechanic he’d be significantly worse.
Party Wolf just showed that Asta is still good and can succeed in tournaments, not that he’s top 10. Astaroth is definitely a good character but like any grappler in a fighting game his gameplan is inconsistent. Sure, he’s definitely a problem if he crawls around inside your head and can delete you in 3-4 grabs but he does still have to commit to the option he chooses and he doesn’t have the tools or even the frame data like others do when he’s pushed out of his comfort zone, and leads to so many of his matchups being terrible for him like Raphael and Zasalamel.
Mitsu and Maxi were honestly hurt by the recent changes to the verticals. Mitsu can still play basic Calibur but the patch already hurt his inability to deal with step even further. Much of his kit is still good but others are honestly just handling what he already does better. Maxi on the other hand is very susceptible to counterplay especially with the nerf he received to HG. His stanceplay can be easily shut down with proper knowledge and relies heavily on 6A+B and CH’s to score mass damage. The nerfs to verticals didn’t help him much either. ._.
You can disagree with me, call me wrong, or do whatever the hell you want. But I stand by my opinion here whether you like it or not. Good day.
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Disagree. The window for RI in PRP is significant. Super damage of PRP went from 100+ DMP to 85. RRP 4AA is still a great low but definitely the nerf was real, and IMHO unnecessary since you needed to score the roses first so yeah....the RI stance nerf and consistent low damage in this game where almost everyone scores big damage were significant for Amy. Still a very good character, just that Purple doesn't makes her Top like before.
Disagree but I get your POV. Tracking is now once again an issue for him, unlike before. But at least he has range and the nerfs haven't been as severe as Amy. So, I get your POV.
Not Season 1 Ivy but she has everything including a semi blender and a very good defensive game, great LH game and strong oki. Amy wishes she had Ivy's options.
Disagree.
Sophitia doesn't have the oppression she had at the beginning of Season 2 with her Soul Charge 236 A+B mixups. To compensate, they gave her better tracking in her very good mids but lost her oppression. And FC1K is a good low but that's all she has in that area. 1K knocking down on CH is meh. Middle of the pack since she is well rounded but doesn't excels like before.
All I see in tourneys is Azwel winning with the same 7-8 moves. Mixups and big damage for how basic he turned out to be. How is he not Top when he wins consistently with this gameplan and moves? (1A with it's insane range and Musclebuster is all he needs for lows to make you duck, breaking is predictable so meh)
No arguments on DL, but to me, Siegfried's evasion, range, damage and aB mind games make him Top.
I have been fighting Astaroth for more than 20 years and I know when he is weak and when he's strong.
Yes, he has been nerfed in 2.30 but he still is Top 10. His magic # remains 3-4 and he has the means and a very good Soul Charge to make it happen, plus RO.
Astaroth is strong in SC6.
Agree on Maxi, even though his damage and jailing remain an issue so he ranks higher IMHO.
Disagree on Mitsurugi.
He still has 22K, 1BB, SC 1KBB and decent mids and guard damage with the Relic B +4, etc....
No where near Groh tier.
These threads are for talking and debating.
And that's fine. As long as you don't troll or disrespect me, I don't have an issue with you or anyone who hasn't done so.
Happy holidays!!!
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sytus
[14] Master
As someone who's picked up Azwel recently with patch 2.30, I can definitely tell you he's not OP. If your opponent has a fast character and knows what to look out for he can be shut down to a punching bag. His frame data is very dependent on which stance he's in which means you have to have a flowchart to win with him. The reason you see him using the same 7-8 moves all the time, specifically axe is because it's the stance with forward momentum. Basically all of his 3/6/9/33/66/99 attacks are axe attacks, so if you try to play neutral with AA/BB, you will go into sword stance which will take away the shorter iframes from axe stance. This applies to the other stances so the first time you use AA will be i14 then i10 afterwards until you switch to spear or axe stance. You also lose those shorter frames if you press B+K as they work as a resource to do that stance's special attack.
As of right now, I think Azwel is just right, it's up to the pros that are having trouble with him to understand his flow better because he is the most flow chart dependent character in the game. I just wish he had more moves to play with because he is a lot of fun, hopefully season 3 will sort that out.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Pretty much that yea. Azwel didnt really get anything ever since launch if we are honest about that. While other character repeadetly got buffed he got nerfed over and over. Of course it comes of like winning with few moves if the only really good thing he got left is the 6B+K 3B guessing game.
He has terrible movement. The worst Re in the game. A mediocre Ce at best a useless sc CE unless the other guy fucks up completely or you get a very specific huge launcher which rarely happens during the sc time. His SC isnt anything special either cause it just grants him acces to his moveset.
In sword he got an i10 but loses access to lows. In shield he has no damage or punishes and is pretty much limited to horis that are either low or high. Yes he has some verticals but they are slow and reactable. Yes fc 1A,1B is thing but thats only at real close range. In Axe he is good at rushdown if he can get going but he sucks when being pressured because he loses the ability to punish i12s.
He doesnt really have a good post Gi game so what he is left is one really strong mixup in Axe that everyone is used to be now and knows how to avoid. And good neutral tools with resctricitons depending on his weapon set.
Gameplay wise i feel the same about him. He has been pretty much my favourite character in sc6 since launch but his moveset doesnt offer me enough variety. It really comes down to using whats optimal all the time.
He has terrible movement. The worst Re in the game. A mediocre Ce at best a useless sc CE unless the other guy fucks up completely or you get a very specific huge launcher which rarely happens during the sc time. His SC isnt anything special either cause it just grants him acces to his moveset.
In sword he got an i10 but loses access to lows. In shield he has no damage or punishes and is pretty much limited to horis that are either low or high. Yes he has some verticals but they are slow and reactable. Yes fc 1A,1B is thing but thats only at real close range. In Axe he is good at rushdown if he can get going but he sucks when being pressured because he loses the ability to punish i12s.
He doesnt really have a good post Gi game so what he is left is one really strong mixup in Axe that everyone is used to be now and knows how to avoid. And good neutral tools with resctricitons depending on his weapon set.
Gameplay wise i feel the same about him. He has been pretty much my favourite character in sc6 since launch but his moveset doesnt offer me enough variety. It really comes down to using whats optimal all the time.
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sytus
[14] Master
I know it's early days for me to say what Azwel needs in terms of buffs, but I feel right now he needs more stance transitions strings to make his flow more freeform. His stance transition from BBK definitely needs a major speed buff. It's that bad that it doesn't even feel like a stance transition string. Why would I use BBK when 2AK is far superior to stance transition in neutral.
Foot
[12] Conqueror
Well it depends on which stance you are in. Usually you switch stances after a combo or weapon art to follow up with whatever you want. He has some good stance switches for neutral as well tho. In axe you can pretty much switch to everything with 6B enders which is pretty much the stance that needs a way of switching out cause you cant do much if you are under pressure. Sword is fast enough to interrupt moves and build distance to do a relatively safe transition. Tbh i dont know what id change about azwel. He probably just needs a bigger moveset not necessarily tons of stance switches just more options to play with. Cause right now you cant really do to much about his general gameplan cause if you remove the axe low gussing game hed be pretty trash.
Muted Masterx
[05] Battler
Its been a while since I've posted but Asta is middle pack at best! Being a grappler he hurts when he not landing throws! From close range neutral Throw Range! he cannot punish step you cant even punish ducking if you not landing throws! Not to mention being countered out of throws completely by quicker tec crouching, fuzzy duck to while rising attacks!! Hildes, Cassandras can shut Asta throw game down. and your only options 3k 6A+B both punishable on block and grant you nothing on counter if you not consistently landing throws!
Angrel-San
[10] Knight
Agree with you that he is flowchart heavy but his mixups still hit the pros. As predictable as he can be, he still has his range and damage which are indeed good.
But yeah, he is not overpowered anymore. Nowhere near Season 1 Vanilla Azwel which was stupid. He is still very good and effective though. Basic mixups and a great Soul Charge game which are effective even with predictability.