SCIV vs. Tekken 6: some objective feedback needed

[ShenYu]

Not a really a Tekken player at all here. Though I do dabble in it from time to time.

From what I've played I would say Belial has it down best.

Ultimately, for me. The reason why I don't feel much motivation to play Tekken is that the system is just extremely obtuse. I don't think execution really should even be a factor here. People have asked me why I can play VF and not be able to play Tekken considering VF is a "harder game." I just find that everything makes sense in VF. Which honestly might be because I played started playing FGs with SC. But still.

I honestly can't be bothered to put the effort into learning Tekken. I play roughly 5 different fighting games at any one time now. (Mostly 2D now that VF and SC are almost dead here.) If I wanted to really pick up Tekken, I feel like I'd have to drop at least 3 other games in order to be even slightly proficient at Tekken. Let me give you an example for why I feel like this.

Ten-hit strings are supposedly useless right? Unfortunately, unless you learn what they are you can't begin to react to them. And now you ask me to to learn the ten-hit strings of 40 other characters otherwise I'm fucking doomed to lose to what is essentially a scrub move? Are you kidding me? No. Just no. I'm not going to extend that effort. Sorry.

So yeah. I'm sure the game itself is actually really deep and exciting and all that but I REALLY CAN'T BE BOTHERED.

Edit:
Someone brought up aesthetics as well. Saying Tekken is more realistic. The characters in Tekken are just as stylised if not more so than SC. The problem I have with Tekkens aesthetics is there doesn't seem to be any cohesive visual themes going on within Tekken. Character designs are all over the map. It feels like they put everything in a blender and HEY HERE'S YOUR GAME.

 

[Belial]

Ten-hit strings are supposedly useless right? Unfortunately, unless you learn what they are you can't begin to react to them. And now you ask me to to learn the ten-hit strings of 40 other characters otherwise I'm fucking doomed to lose to what is essentially a scrub move? Are you kidding me? No. Just no.

ahaha, that is golden. pretty much sums it up ^_^

PS: btw what about SC dying in singapore?? noo. I hope to see you and Shen Rii at Cannes!!

 

[D.I.N.O]

I want to iterate

There is ultimately NO DIFFERENCE IN HOW YOU PLAY TEKKEN/SOUL CAL!! HIGH/MID/LOW/THROW!! All the same.

The difference, comes from when it is and isnt "your turn". Both games offer evades, reversals, parries to keep the opponent "honest" about when they attack.

The real difference between the two games comes from what you do after getting launched/knocked down, since Oki is totally different. However they are still the same game, mechanics wise.

Where the games begin to diverge is the "what am I allowed to do now" moments. After blocking a move, you're most often going to your Jab moves (1,2 vs AA/BB). You have the option to mix up with lows (d/b2, d/b3 vs 1K, 1A). However, the amount of time the move takes, and what the moves offer afterwards is vastly different. IT always dependent on the character, but Tekken sort of "requires" certain inputs/follow ups to be made to be most efficient. SC however gives you the option on certain launches/knockdowns/stuns to follow up with just about anything. One option may be more preffered than another, but neither is "better" in the sense that Soul Cal allows the mixups even after mixups. Tekken says Launch, Oki, repeat. You don't really have as much options to do what you want after hitting someone when compared to SC.

Both are...Great games. Both games allow fun to be had. Tekken is more frustrating when trying to deal damage and get off the ground. SC is more frustrating when dealing with either evasive characters, fast characters, or Well-spaced characters. These are things that change up much more between characters in SC as opposed to Tekken. This is why I believe SC offers more fun factor, because a similar strat can be used between most Tekken characters (Jab/low poke/launch/power move) while SC FORCES you to make different decisions based on the character you are playing, the character the opponent is playing, the stage, and how much damage is left.

I think I'm sort of rambling, but I hope you guys see what I';m saying. Soul Cal is to Tekken what MvC2 is to CvS2.

 

[ShenYu]

PS: btw what about SC dying in singapore?? noo. I hope to see you and Shen Rii at Cannes!!

No arcade. That's pretty much it. Haha. I'm definitely going to try make it to Cannes though. :)

 

[Rockafella]

I want to iterate

There is ultimately NO DIFFERENCE IN HOW YOU PLAY TEKKEN/SOUL CAL!! HIGH/MID/LOW/THROW!! All the same.

The difference, comes from when it is and isnt "your turn". Both games offer evades, reversals, parries to keep the opponent "honest" about when they attack.

Tekken is more frustrating when trying to deal damage and get off the ground.

How in the world do you figure that Tekken is more frustrating getting off the ground than SC?

These two games are different, but yet similar in that they seek to attain the same concept. It comes down to which style you prefer. Yes, there are 10 hit combo strings in Tekken 5BR & Tekken 6. Tekken upon first glance can seem easy to win, and it can be considering the increasing juggle system, very high damage wall combos, and the fact that there is no way to get out of a juggle at all. But knocking someone off of a stage with a full health bar is as easy as it gets. So SC4 takes the cake for all fighting games as far as easiness.

Comparisons:

Lows - Much more prevalent in SC4. Tekken does not have as many knockdown lows.
Sidestep - SC4 has 8-way. Tekken does not. However, Tekken's sidestep is much faster.
Speed - Tekken is a faster game. SC only has a few fast characters. The slower characters typically rely on range. Although that isn't the case for Ivy and Zasalamel who have speed and long range for some reason.
Balance - SC is much more of a turtling game because of the huge disparity in weapon sizes. Characters with 30 foot weapons and bubbles compared to characters with 1 foot weapons. Also, there is a huge disparity between character speed. Tekken makes up for a character's lack of overall speed by giving them hand speed. Jack and Kuma/Panda in Tekken are perfect examples of characters that are slow but have quick hands to make up for it. There is much more of a speed balance in Tekken. Also,character match-ups are more balanced in Tekken. There isn't a typical character that is used to beat another character. SC has characters that can easily beat other characters. This is why you will see yourself fighting against the same characters because your opponent is trying to match-up with your character selection.
Defense - Both games have good defense, but one uses A button the other uses back on the pad or stick. Tekken takes its defense a bit farther by implementing reversals. SC has a few reversals but mostly it is comprised of GI's. A GI in itself gives you no reward for doing so.
Ground - This is the main difference between the games for me. SoulCalibur was designed with an emphasis on ground game which is why there are so many knockdown lows, especially in SC4. A lot of players will disagree with this, but those players have not done their homework. Tekken does not allow people to hover over you once you've knocked them to the floor, because the grounded player can sweep you while rising. Thus, you need to be more cautious. SC intentionally does not have this mechanic. This is why we see players bum rush to a grounded opponent to keep pressure on them. There is a Japanese term for this act called "Okizeme." Okizeme is what SC is based on. It means keeping pressure on a "downed" opponent, or in their "wake-up."
Projectiles - SC has much more of these than Tekken.
Stuns - Much more stun moves in SC. Tekken is geared more towards a launch or knock-back.
Options - Tekken has more fighting options (team), while SC has more mode options. Or at least used to have more. It will be interesting to see what they do with Tekken's online options. As SC's is very basic. I assume they will follow the same path.

So it comes down to preference. I like them both because they are different from each other. But if I had to make a choice......I'll keep that to myself. Though you could probably get an idea from my post.

 

[Uber1337]

How in the world do you figure that Tekken is more frustrating getting off the ground than SC?

These two games are different, but yet similar in that they seek to attain the same concept. It comes down to which style you prefer. Yes, there are 10 hit combo strings in Tekken 5BR & Tekken 6. Tekken upon first glance can seem easy to win, and it can be considering the increasing juggle system, very high damage wall combos, and the fact that there is no way to get out of a juggle at all. But knocking someone off of a stage with a full health bar is as easy as it gets. So SC4 takes the cake for all fighting games as far as easiness.

Comparisons:

Lows - Much more prevalent in SC4. Tekken does not have as many knockdown lows.
Sidestep - SC4 has 8-way. Tekken does not. However, Tekken's sidestep is much faster.
Speed - Tekken is a faster game. SC only has a few fast characters. The slower characters typically rely on range. Although that isn't the case for Ivy and Zasalamel who have speed and long range for some reason.
Balance - SC is much more of a turtling game because of the huge disparity in weapon sizes. Characters with 30 foot weapons and bubbles compared to characters with 1 foot weapons. Also, there is a huge disparity between character speed. Tekken makes up for a character's lack of overall speed by giving them hand speed. Jack and Kuma/Panda in Tekken are perfect examples of characters that are slow but have quick hands to make up for it. There is much more of a speed balance in Tekken. Also,character match-ups are more balanced in Tekken. There isn't a typical character that is used to beat another character. SC has characters that can easily beat other characters. This is why you will see yourself fighting against the same characters because your opponent is trying to match-up with your character selection.
Defense - Both games have good defense, but one uses A button the other uses back on the pad or stick. Tekken takes its defense a bit farther by implementing reversals. SC has a few reversals but mostly it is comprised of GI's. A GI in itself gives you no reward for doing so.
Ground - This is the main difference between the games for me. SoulCalibur was designed with an emphasis on ground game which is why there are so many knockdown lows, especially in SC4. A lot of players will disagree with this, but those players have not done their homework. Tekken does not allow people to hover over you once you've knocked them to the floor, because the grounded player can sweep you while rising. Thus, you need to be more cautious. SC intentionally does not have this mechanic. This is why we see players bum rush to a grounded opponent to keep pressure on them. There is a Japanese term for this act called "Okizeme." Okizeme is what SC is based on. It means keeping pressure on a "downed" opponent, or in their "wake-up."
Projectiles - SC has much more of these than Tekken.
Stuns - Much more stun moves in SC. Tekken is geared more towards a launch or knock-back.
Options - Tekken has more fighting options (team), while SC has more mode options. Or at least used to have more. It will be interesting to see what they do with Tekken's online options. As SC's is very basic. I assume they will follow the same path.

So it comes down to preference. I like them both because they are different from each other. But if I had to make a choice......I'll keep that to myself. Though you could probably get an idea from my post.

There are so many things wrong with this whole post i don't even know where to start. Your whole thing about balance is kinda dumb. Are you really callling SCIV more of a turtling game then Tekken? Really? Tekken is a safe poke fest until someone lands a launcher and takes away half the opponents life. In Soul Calibur the combos are much less damaging so people can afford to take more risks. And the thing about character speed, I mean, asta has a i12 6A and he's supposedly one of the slowest in the game. And i don't really think the matchup situation is that much different Nothing is really that bad except maybe like algol vs talim. And on your section on defense? WTF, GIing gives no reward? How long have you been playing this game? You get a whole like 20 frames to attack after a GI and the opponent can do nothing but re-GI.

 

[spongebob]

There are so many things wrong with this whole post i don't even know where to start. Your whole thing about balance is kinda dumb. Are you really callling SCIV more of a turtling game then Tekken? Really? Tekken is a safe poke fest until someone lands a launcher and takes away half the opponents life. In Soul Calibur the combos are much less damaging so people can afford to take more risks. And the thing about character speed, I mean, asta has a i12 6A and he's supposedly one of the slowest in the game. And i don't really think the matchup situation is that much different Nothing is really that bad except maybe like algol vs talim. And on your section on defense? WTF, GIing gives no reward? How long have you been playing this game? You get a whole like 20 frames to attack after a GI and the opponent can do nothing but re-GI.

lol i was thinking sum of the exact same things xD

GI'ing gives no reward made me lol, lol

 

[Rockafella]

There are so many things wrong with this whole post i don't even know where to start. Your whole thing about balance is kinda dumb. Are you really callling SCIV more of a turtling game then Tekken? Really? Tekken is a safe poke fest until someone lands a launcher and takes away half the opponents life. In Soul Calibur the combos are much less damaging so people can afford to take more risks. And the thing about character speed, I mean, asta has a i12 6A and he's supposedly one of the slowest in the game. And i don't really think the matchup situation is that much different Nothing is really that bad except maybe like algol vs talim. And on your section on defense? WTF, GIing gives no reward? How long have you been playing this game? You get a whole like 20 frames to attack after a GI and the opponent can do nothing but re-GI.

I can still block after I've been guard impacted. So it does nothing. It does no damage. It's just a repel that pauses one's offense. Even by knocking someone down with it, it does no damage. So I laugh at your response. A GI is not an automatic hit. That's why there are so many mediocre players 'cause they don't understand the simple mechanics of this game.

Do you pick your characters first? If not then you are doing just what I posted in trying to find a match-up. Very few players are actually good enough to pick first because they don't care who their opponent picks. Like myself.

 

[KingAce]

How in the world do you figure that Tekken is more frustrating getting off the ground than SC?

These two games are different, but yet similar in that they seek to attain the same concept. It comes down to which style you prefer. Yes, there are 10 hit combo strings in Tekken 5BR & Tekken 6. Tekken upon first glance can seem easy to win, and it can be considering the increasing juggle system, very high damage wall combos, and the fact that there is no way to get out of a juggle at all. But knocking someone off of a stage with a full health bar is as easy as it gets. So SC4 takes the cake for all fighting games as far as easiness.

Comparisons:

Lows - Much more prevalent in SC4. Tekken does not have as many knockdown lows.
Sidestep - SC4 has 8-way. Tekken does not. However, Tekken's sidestep is much faster.
Speed - Tekken is a faster game. SC only has a few fast characters. The slower characters typically rely on range. Although that isn't the case for Ivy and Zasalamel who have speed and long range for some reason.
Balance - SC is much more of a turtling game because of the huge disparity in weapon sizes. Characters with 30 foot weapons and bubbles compared to characters with 1 foot weapons. Also, there is a huge disparity between character speed. Tekken makes up for a character's lack of overall speed by giving them hand speed. Jack and Kuma/Panda in Tekken are perfect examples of characters that are slow but have quick hands to make up for it. There is much more of a speed balance in Tekken. Also,character match-ups are more balanced in Tekken. There isn't a typical character that is used to beat another character. SC has characters that can easily beat other characters. This is why you will see yourself fighting against the same characters because your opponent is trying to match-up with your character selection.
Defense - Both games have good defense, but one uses A button the other uses back on the pad or stick. Tekken takes its defense a bit farther by implementing reversals. SC has a few reversals but mostly it is comprised of GI's. A GI in itself gives you no reward for doing so.
Ground - This is the main difference between the games for me. SoulCalibur was designed with an emphasis on ground game which is why there are so many knockdown lows, especially in SC4. A lot of players will disagree with this, but those players have not done their homework. Tekken does not allow people to hover over you once you've knocked them to the floor, because the grounded player can sweep you while rising. Thus, you need to be more cautious. SC intentionally does not have this mechanic. This is why we see players bum rush to a grounded opponent to keep pressure on them. There is a Japanese term for this act called "Okizeme." Okizeme is what SC is based on. It means keeping pressure on a "downed" opponent, or in their "wake-up."
Projectiles - SC has much more of these than Tekken.
Stuns - Much more stun moves in SC. Tekken is geared more towards a launch or knock-back.
Options - Tekken has more fighting options (team), while SC has more mode options. Or at least used to have more. It will be interesting to see what they do with Tekken's online options. As SC's is very basic. I assume they will follow the same path.

So it comes down to preference. I like them both because they are different from each other. But if I had to make a choice......I'll keep that to myself. Though you could probably get an idea from my post.

It's easier to take 60% dmg off your opponent in tekken than to get a ring out in SC.

Sidestep speed is character dependent in SC.

Tekken means turtling. SC has more flexiblity on aggression or defensive play styles, usually also character dependent. Amy= aggressive, Zass= defensive

Ground game in SC is also character dependent, Amy, Astaroth, Nightmare all have nasty ground games, Zass, Yun Seong have a crappy one.

Both Kilik and X can hit while grounded.

Algol is a 2D fighting character in a 3D game.

SC has a kinda tekken character called Hilde.

Overall SC has the most variety in terms of character design.

Aside from fighting styles what really separates tekken characters from each other?

 

[Signia]

I can still block after I've been guard impacted. So it does nothing. It does no damage. It's just a repel that pauses one's offense. Even by knocking someone down with it, it does no damage. So I laugh at your response. A GI is not an automatic hit. That's why there are so many mediocre players 'cause they don't understand the simple mechanics of this game.

Do you pick your characters first? If not then you are doing just what I posted in trying to find a match-up. Very few players are actually good enough to pick first because they don't care who their opponent picks. Like myself.

You can't block for 20 frames (1/3 of second) after being guard impacted (the green repel I mean, not the blue parry), the only thing you can do is guard impact during that period. Meaning if you just sit there and try to guard after being impacted, you'll get hit if your opponent uses an attack that has speed of i20 or lower. If you're having trouble with this, try using a move right after you hit 6G or 3G. You have a short buffer window to input it. For Sophitia an easy and effective option is 3B, which is i20. EVERY time you attempt to guard impact, you should be buffering an attack right after, e.g. 6G-3B. It's pointless to use it on its own, unless you're baiting a re-GI. But what if you miss the GI? Well don't worry, you character is still stuck in the "missed GI" animation, your buffered attack won't come out at the now incorrect time and you can just hold G and hope you don't get hit.

Also, weapon size/length/type has hardly anything to do with the range and speed of the attacks the character possesses. Just about every character has quick moves, slow moves, and long range moves. Setsuka who uses a tiny dagger is has longer range than Zasalamel. Most other characters with short weapons have at least one move that has stupid range. Every character except Rock has moves that are i14 or faster. As a Sophitia player you should know that it's not the size of the weapon or the way the character looks that determines anything, its the MOVES.

About the whole "picking first" thing, this really isn't that big of a deal in SCIV because there are not that many terrible matchups in the game, and there is little to no risk of getting "counterpicked" unless you play a low tier. Sophitia for example has the fewest matchups that are not 50-50.

 

[WARUI_NE]

I have no clue what im talking about

heh i was gonna say the same thing

GI's give a whole 20 frames for free dmg

JI's give 30
if your not getting free dmg your not attaching fast enough or the move your using is to slow

tekken is a turtle fest are you kidding?

if you try to rush down in tekken you lose simple as that

 

[andur]

I can still block after I've been guard impacted. So it does nothing. It does no damage. It's just a repel that pauses one's offense. Even by knocking someone down with it, it does no damage. So I laugh at your response. A GI is not an automatic hit. That's why there are so many mediocre players 'cause they don't understand the simple mechanics of this game.

Do you pick your characters first? If not then you are doing just what I posted in trying to find a match-up. Very few players are actually good enough to pick first because they don't care who their opponent picks. Like myself.

The only way you can block an attack after you getted GI'ed is if either the other guy attacks too slowly afterwards or uses a slow attack. Go into training mode and set the dummy to repel/attack, attack it, and just try to block its follow-up. A just impact is even more ridiculous at +30, you can do virtually anything after one.

If you don't buffer in that followup attack immediately (you can't wait to confirm the gi, but, that's actually kind of a stupid thing to do anyways since if you whiff the gi you are screwed anyways) then yeah you can have things like i13 follow-up moves blocked, but, that's only cause you delayed too much (course we're talking 7/60th's of a second there 116.6ms, which doesn't give you a whole lot of time to hit those buttons, factor in any lag and yeah, then you get things being blocked which shouldn't be possible to).

A parry is the knockdown gi (the blue one), which also has its uses. Parry someone into a wall and boom free wall combo, or hit them with a fast enough low and they won't be able to block it (I'm pretty sure Cass's 1K is unblockable immediately after a parry, though I could be wrong on that).

Add onto that the soul gauge damage you do with repels and the soul gauge you gain back with parries, and they are hardly useless.

Edit: And let's not forget the auto-impact moves that are totally free damage.

 

[piggy]

*sigh*

How in the world do you figure that Tekken is more frustrating getting off the ground than SC?

Ummm...because I have played both games seriosuly? Oki is the other half of damage in tekken (after juggles) and is MUCH bigger in tekken than in calibur with more relaunch, more grounded options, and more damage in general. Seriously...you think sleeping 4 is the answer? FT5 for $500 please. Do you really think that the Oki options for Amy are comparable to the Oki of Nina?

tekken is a turtle fest are you kidding?

if you try to rush down in tekken you lose simple as that

Character dependent

Edit: And let's not forget the auto-impact moves that are totally free damage.

Not all aGI moves guarantee damage (some can even be re-GIed)

Competent Tekken 5: DR/Tekken 6 players only, please :)

pwned

 

[andur]

Not all aGI moves guarantee damage (some can even be re-GIed)

True. but a lot of them are, I never said all auto-gi moves were guaranteed (poor Mina), though I can see how what I said can be misinterpreted that way.