SCV Ivy FAQ & General Discussion

CS isn't an integral part of being able to use Ivy to a good standard, so I wouldn't worry about that too much since most people can't even input it fast enough without making it obvious that they are going to use it.
 
Mage said:
CS isn't an integral part of being able to use Ivy to a good standard, so I wouldn't worry about that too much since most people can't even input it fast enough without making it obvious that they are going to use it.
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Well, it's 20 damage more than regular B-throw and has a high chance for a clean hit giving it a extra 18. I would say it's somewhat important.
 
But it's breakable and not guaranteed damage, so it wouldn't be in my "Must learn" list for Ivy.
 
Mage said:
But it's breakable and not guaranteed damage, so it wouldn't be in my "Must learn" list for Ivy.
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The regular B throw is breakable and not guaranteed damage as well.....
And saying no to 20/38 free damage is just whack.
 
You've just agreed that it is not guaranteed damage yet you've just called it "free damage"..
 
Mage said:
I don't need your star, so stop trying to be funny and start arguments like a child.
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Sorry for butting in, but I'd just like to say that he is probably right. Surely, an Ivy that has mastered iCS strikes fear into an opponent and makes him anticipate a B throw all the time, which either makes him crouch a lot (which is a no-no vs Ivy), or makes him open for an A throw. Also the Clean hit percentage for CS/iCS is high enough.
Of course, my experience is limited in this...
 
Mage said:
I don't need your star, so stop trying to be funny and start arguments like a child.
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I'm not even trying to be funny. I always give stars to people who are imo trolling.

We are discussing the use of two moves that have the same purpose with one of them doing more damage. This is a silly discussion, CS is better than B+G and therefore should be implemented in your game if you're an Ivy player. Same goes for FC1B G 6b8. You could use 2B+K but 6b8 does more damage (And better oki) so you should practice and implement it in your game.
 
I'm not discussing this anymore since I've made my opinion heard and I don't want to cause trouble. CS is nowhere near as good in SCV as it was in previous ones because of the non-bufferable iCS and the ridiculous input, but whatever.
 
If you've practiced CS as much as I have, the difficulty of the input should be no issue. In fact, the 666 input at the end makes it one of the most versatile inputs. You can throw it out immediately or take a few huge steps forward and then throw it out for range. iCS isn't very useful compared to CS, sure, but that doesn't invalidate CS at all.

CS has 4x the range of Ivy's standard grabs, which are among the bottom 5 shortest range grabs of all characters. It helps her dominate the mid range game, and if you throw it out while an opponent is mashing a mid range hori, the opportunity to break it is no issue either. You can also catch back steps with it where B+G cannot. Even if they break it, it puts them right in front of you at frame disadvantage.
 
KineticClash said:
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I didn't say it was an issue but simply just another reason why some people don't necessarily have to use it. Sure it does more damage than a normal grab. Sure it has good grab range. Sure it has good clean hit chance.

But it's still not guaranteed damage where you could do something else, right? The mere act of feigning the imput of CS and then doing 2A+B when the opponent crouches in anticipation of the predicted CS or whatnot is what makes it a good move for me personally, rather than the actual grab itself.

WhYYZ said:
We are discussing the use of two moves that have the same purpose with one of them doing more damage. This is a silly discussion, CS is better than B+G and therefore should be implemented in your game if you're an Ivy player. Same goes for FC1B G 6b8. You could use 2B+K but 6b8 does more damage (And better oki) so you should practice and implement it in your game.
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I don't know why we got onto the discussion of the grab damage differences or properties, because not once did I mention any other grab is better or not, lol.

WhYYZ said:
I'm not even trying to be funny. I always give stars to people who are imo trolling.
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Trolling? Having an opinion is now called trolling, even though I have given perfectly justifiable reasoning behind my opinion? And since when did you become Ivy expert?

I don't see the big drama about me giving the opinion that CS is not indefinitely essential to being a good Ivy player, it's just what I think. I'm pretty sure that when Ivy is used at tournament level play, CS is hardly included in it, and I'll refer back to when Eli played vs. Oofmatic. He used CS a grand total of zero times if I remember correctly, and he still won. So CS isn't exactly needed to be a good Ivy player, but this may be just in SCV. That's all I was trying to say, before Ivy expert WhyYYZ desperately tried to call me out on it.

SCII may be a different story though.
 
Mage said:
But it's still not guaranteed damage where you could do something else, right? The mere act of feigning the imput of CS and then doing 2A+B when the opponent crouches in anticipation of the predicted CS or whatnot is what makes it a good move for me personally, rather than the actual grab itself.
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2A+B wouldn't be guaranteed damage either unless you actually get them to crouch. Which would only happen if you prove your grab game is a threat. And imo a mid range UB i18 high hori has a better chance of doing damage than a short range i20 mid vertical
 
KineticClash said:
2A+B wouldn't be guaranteed damage either unless you actually get them to crouch. Which would only happen if you prove your grab game is a threat. And imo a mid range UB i18 high hori has a better chance of doing damage than a short range i20 mid vertical
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Well I couldn't think of a better example but you get the general idea. Even if you can't do the grab, does the opponent know that? Doubt it, unless you told them or you have played them many times before, so you can still make them think that you are going to do it, even if you can't actually perform it.
 
WhYYZ said:
Never EVER use 22B BE. Learn the Just frame as it does more damage and doesn't cost meter.
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22B BE mixups when you're sitting on meter (including FC1B techtraps into 6B8) are pretty tasty. Since they often tech to avoid BT 2B+K / G bK, tech traps out of that BE are very likely. 22B/22B BE is also significantly faster than 22(B) so that's one reason to consider the BE version to get more damage out of a step punish if frames are important.
 
Agreed. 22B BE has its uses. The most important one being speed. Only use it if you are positive it will hit though (e.g. whiff punish). 88B BE > G2 > WR B+K does quite a bit of damage. And no one is going to get the 88B hold JF 100% of the time
 
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