SCV Ivy FAQ & General Discussion

[neoghaleon]

Ehy guys, I'm new to the Ivy section but I've lurked here for many days lol =)
I really like her in SCV and decided she'll be one of my mains (along w Astaroth and maybe Voldo).
I've got some questions:

1) What do you think are the best setups for CS? I usually manage to grab the opponent with CS after a knockdown when he is standing up (fe: 1K, 9B, CS) but don't have much success when I try to use CS after strings like AA, BB, 1A, A+B,A because I get interrupted.
Do you think tactics like : AA, buffering CS, 4B (to hopefully stop the opponent move), CS could work?

Go read the CS section of the forums. You generally want to use CS when the opponent is on the defensive. People tend to block more when they just got hit, and tend to block less when their attacks just landed on you, using this knowledge you will less likely to be interrupted. My favorite setups are 9B[on hit]-->CS and BB[on hit], CS. The CS-prebuffer-->random move-->CS was covered thoroughly by Sora in the CS thread, please go read up there. I think it's definitely viable.

2) How should I play her? I know everybody has his own style, but what's the general strategy a player must have in mind when using her?

Punish, punish punish! Always look for ways you can sneak in 6B8K...it's such a freaking good move~! Also make sure you punish all whiffs of highs and throws with FC1B

3) Why some of you ask for buffs? I think she is very viable (I would never play Ivy if she was as powerful as in SCIV), Link proved she can win tournaments.

why not...the developers are saying they're taking suggestions...

 

[Vanvid]

Hey there,

Ok, so I don't know if this is acceptable or not, but I need to blow off some steam somewhere. For weeks I've been courting Ivy, but she still seems to reject me. What to do? I don't know why, but in both SCIV and SCV it's like whenever I try to accept that me and Ivy don't work together and I go try someone else... well.. it's just not the same, and I keep going back to Ivy.

Anyway.

Been playing online a bit the last few days. After a lot of training against the CPU, mainly just to get familiar with her moveset. I get totally whacked almost every time. Here's what I've found.

Whenever I try to do fancy stuff in order to throw the opponent into the air for that nice 6B8 grab, I fail. 22 seems too slow, 3 seems too slow, and FC 1BB never seems to work. Neither does 44BB. Why do I want to do these things? Because it seems to me that this is the way I can cause the most damage. Maybe I'm mistaken, but whenever these work against the CPU I actually manage to do quite a nice chunk of damage. Now online players are of course a different sort, with their eternal spamming of fast Natsu-like (or whoever) attacks that interrupt all of Ivy's fancy moves (or so it seems). Maybe my 'tactic' is all wrong here, and I shouldn't even try to do this. Well. It's not like I do it all the time anyway, I actually do try to look for openings for these attacks, but so far without much success.

What kinda works is her simple fast attacks. Like 2K, 4K, 4B and especially FC 4K. If I combine a lot of these, it seems like the online button masher has a harder time against me. But then I don't really feel like I'm using any of the cool stuff that Ivy has.

I find that in online mode, it's important to keep the pressure up all the time. Whenever I fail to do this, the enemy overwhelms me with endless fast string of attacks. But since don't have many effective triple combos, and it seems like all her moves require more thinking than some of the others, I tend to lock up with no idea what to do next. Here I tend to guard for a second or so while "thinking", which typically leads to my doom.

Also. For CE. In the last round (3 round matches) the critical gauge is typically full for both players. This means that many of the others will spam 1 or 2 CE attacks. Which is fine. I can understand that. But I would just like to be able to do the same myself. But I fail to find any good setup for using the CE grab that Ivy has. The extremely short range is very problematic for me.

Is there any good discussion for Ivy wakeup game? When I'm standing I usually just use 2A+B, can't find any better thing to do.

Ok, I know it's practice practice practice. I don't expect I'd want to pick another character. I'm stuck with Ivy. Of my own decision yes. But if any of you have some good advice I'd be very grateful. Anything from links to good discussions, advice for learning Ivy, where to start, good moves, bad moves, whatever. I'm listening.

-vanvid-

 

[Ring]

I have merged your thread with FAQ and General Discussion thread.

Ivy is difficult to play in SC5. She's not overly complicated but she is kind of different than other characters. Her main damage comes from pokes and throws. Her NH damage is weaker compared to most of the cast so you must know your matchups well if you want to win.

- 6B8K or BB should be your main tools for punishing.
- FC 1B is your main move to deal damage on normal hit, it only launches when your opponent is close, though (you can use FC 1(B)B but the combo does less damage) so it should be used mostly when you successfully duck a throw or a high move.
- 214B is a good move that evades all verticals. It also has tech crouch (unlike in SC4) so it ducks throw and high moves at the same time. It's safe against most character on block when used at range.
-2A+B and 3B deal lots of damage on CH.
- 1B BE is a good pressure tool. It gives you a strong combo on hit and a guaranteed 6B8K (or 4B, depending on a character) on block.

Her anti step game is really lacking. Most of her best side step killers are high (66A, 6[A], 6A, 4A) and the mid ones are slow, stepable and/or unsafe.

Her throws are ok, but I wouldn't recommend spending meter on Summon Suffering (A+G,A+B+K) it only gives you additional 15dmg, it's not really worth it. Learn CS and mix it with a mid move that knocks down (2A+B for example)

Her CE is useless right now. It should be only used after a GI where it's guaranteed.

2A+B and bK are great for wakeup.

 

[nitro]

@vanvid
everything Ring said, plus some of my own thoughts:

I dont know which other characters you play with, but unlike most other characters, playing with Ivy requires very good sense of space and zoning because her upclose offence isn't all that great

I know what you mean about spamming CSs in final rounds, I tend to do that a lot with Leixia
With Ivy I just use up all my meter for her BEs, mainly 6B8 BE combos

be patient and look for opportunities to punish, that's Ivy in a nutshell

 

[Sora]

I need to give a mention for 3B -- it is a tech step move too. Granted, its a relatively small tech step, but its a high risk, high reward move that you can use from disadvantage. If its a choice between eating an AA versus getting a 60-70 dmg combo off CH 3B, no argument there.

I don't think Ivy needs to be as defensive as someone like Pyr either. Ivy's punish game is okay-decent at best, but her overall damage output makes most defensive matchups not favorable to her. I personally go the passive-aggressive route. Press the attack with advantage, use CS mixups and use defensive options at disadvantage (not just hold G). Some of her defensive tools include 1K (STC), 7B (great tip range move) and 214B (TC + TS).

 

[KineticClash]

In my opinion, the only things Ivy should be using meter are for:

Guaranteed GI's
Guaranteed 6B8 BE hits, for a little extra damage when you need it (or wall splat)
1B BE ONLY when it will combo in the air. People will learn how to sidestep it on the ground soon enough.
And... CE for overkill when you want to make someone suffer >=]

 

[Ring]

I know I said something else a few weeks ago,but now I think her BEs are quite useful in many ways:

6B8 BE - wallsplat that leads to 160dmg combos
1B BE - well, it's great for everything but don't overuse it. Punishes -16 and more for about 65dmg
66B BE - always save some meter for CH 22_88A combo. Also it can be used for frametraps and as a i17 punisher 45 dmg with nice range and huge advantage on hit.
SS - this is the only one I think it's not really worth it. If they could buff it to 70dmg and Clean Hit B then it would be much better.

Of course other characters have better BE's that lead to crazy damage yet I still find many uses for Ivy's edge attacks.

@Sora, I completely forgot to mention 1K... looks like online already has some bad influence on me, because like in SC4, I don't use the sweep online. I still think it's a lag tactic.

 

[d3troitr3d2k]

Ill chime in: anyone you play will always block high...your mission is to get them out of their high block and either crouch so you can 1B BE or 3B...or hold that high block so you can CS...I tend to waste a lot of 1B BE's because if it connects-combo, if they block then we have ourselves a 50/50 situation...you can't balls to the walls attack anymore with her, you must dictate the round with your mind...

 

[Sora]

I know I said something else a few weeks ago,but now I think her BEs are quite useful in many ways:

6B8 BE - wallsplat that leads to 160dmg combos
1B BE - well, it's great for everything but don't overuse it. Punishes -16 and more for about 65dmg
66B BE - always save some meter for CH 22_88A combo. Also it can be used for frametraps and as a i17 punisher 45 dmg with nice range and huge advantage on hit.
SS - this is the only one I think it's not really worth it. If they could buff it to 70dmg and Clean Hit B then it would be much better.

Of course other characters have better BE's that lead to crazy damage yet I still find many uses for Ivy's edge attacks.

@Sora, I completely forgot to mention 1K... looks like online already has some bad influence on me, because like in SC4, I don't use the sweep online. I still think it's a lag tactic.

Lol. I just try not to use run-up 1K anymore -- unless of course my opponent can't stop it. >:]

 

[neoghaleon]

I used to be against leg sweeps in general because of SC4.
Since SC5 came out, I am able to block most 1A upon reaction due to better net code, thus I'm more willing these days to use 1K.
Not to any point where it's obnoxious, though....

 

[Maedhros]

I have a question on 1B BE. 50% of the time, my opponents fall on their knees, which is when I am able to do the CH 6KB thing. However, the other 50% of the time, they either fall on their buts (CH 1B BE?) or with their backs facing me, and that's when I can't get them with 6KB. Can someone please tell me what are the best options for these instances? Thanks.

 

[neoghaleon]

I use B+K or 1B+K if they fall backwards

 

[Ring]

I think he's talking about a situation when 1B BE hits the opponent from the side or from the back. Then 6KB will whiff. I think BB is always guaranteed, though you must react fast. Or you can try 6B8K (not sure about this one)

 

[Kaz]

Hey Ring its cool about the thread getting closed, just wish i would have known they had decided what they want to change a while ago when i started rewriting it in the ScIV-Sc5 Ivy thread. Hopefully they make some usefull changes.

Edit:Do the better grade clean hits determine how often they happen? I noticed that 5hit JF tends to Clean hit alot and i think it has A or B.

 

[Evan]

I have a question on 1B BE. 50% of the time, my opponents fall on their knees, which is when I am able to do the CH 6KB thing. However, the other 50% of the time, they either fall on their buts (CH 1B BE?) or with their backs facing me, and that's when I can't get them with 6KB. Can someone please tell me what are the best options for these instances? Thanks.

I've noticed that they fall backwards if they block the first one, but get hit by the second. In this situation I've hit with 6B8K...
On the side/back though I usually go for BB

 

[Vanvid]

@Ring: Been missing the post all day, because of the merge. Seems the forum 'watch thread' thing doesn't notice you when your post gets moved... oh well, here goes.

you can use FC 1(B)B but the combo does less damage

Is it possible to judge on reaction whether the first (B) hits or not? Because if it whiffs and you still do the second B input, I think you're doomed. Tried it a lot in training mode, but the only way I can get the full combo that grabs the opponent in the air is by putting in the second B before I know whether (B) has hit or not. Maybe this is a training issue.

214B is a good move that evades all verticals

Do you consider it 'fast'? I do find this move very useful as well, but I often get lured into thinking I can avoid a series of vertical attacks in the middle of the combo, which I can't. Not sure if this is due to bad timing, or just the fact that I'm missing something.

1B BE is a good pressure tool. It gives you a strong combo on hit and a guaranteed 6B8K

I'm surprised to find that you consider 6B8K a good followup to 1B BE. I would have thought the combo listed in the movelist (1B BE, 6KB) was better? This is what I have been training...

Learn CS

Easier said than done ;-)


Edit: Oh. Does anyone have any input for how to do the 22(A):BBBBB (or something not sure about the notation, but you know, the one that requires just input). Are you supposed to press all the buttons like, _really_ fast or with the same pause between each press, or what?

-vanvid-

 

[Mage]

I am desperately clinging onto the last shards onto my destroyed Ivy. I can't get CS consistently and all in all... I suck with her, lol.

And welcome to the forums, Vanvid! :)

 

[Ring]

@Ring: Been missing the post all day, because of the merge. Seems the forum 'watch thread' thing doesn't notice you when your post gets moved...

Sorry. I just want to keep this Soul Arena tidy and clean. All questions should be directed to this thread.

Is it possible to judge on reaction whether the first (B) hits or not? Because if it whiffs and you still do the second B input, I think you're doomed. Tried it a lot in training mode, but the only way I can get the full combo that grabs the opponent in the air is by putting in the second B before I know whether (B) has hit or not. Maybe this is a training issue.

You can detect whether you are in range for FC1B or FC 1(B). If you have problems with this just use FC 1(B)B. It does about 10 dmg less, but it launches at any range and the combo is very easy compared to FC1B, G, 6B8.

Do you consider it 'fast'? I do find this move very useful as well, but I often get lured into thinking I can avoid a series of vertical attacks in the middle of the combo, which I can't. Not sure if this is due to bad timing, or just the fact that I'm missing something.

It's not that fast, but incredibly useful. You can use it at slight frame disadvantage and it will always avoid verticals and high attacks and throws. It also hits grounded opponent and it's pretty safe on block. In a nutshell this move can only be stopped by mid/low side-step killers (assuming you don't use it at huge frame disadvantage, let's say after a blocked 2A+B)

I'm surprised to find that you consider 6B8K a good followup to 1B BE. I would have thought the combo listed in the movelist (1B BE, 6KB) was better? This is what I have been training...

What I meant was that this move gives you a combo if you hit the opponent with it (1B BE, 6KB) and when it gets blocked (1B BE, 6B8K/4B) this moves gives you so much advantage on block that 4B or 6B8K cannot be blocked.

 

[Sora]

Sorry. I just want to keep this Soul Arena tidy and clean. All questions should be directed to this thread.


You can detect whether you are in range for FC1B or FC 1(B). If you have problems with this just use FC 1(B)B. It does about 10 dmg less, but it launches at any range and the combo is very easy compared to FC1B, G, 6B8.


It's not that fast, but incredibly useful. You can use it at slight frame disadvantage and it will always avoid verticals and high attacks and throws. It also hits grounded opponent and it's pretty safe on block. In a nutshell this move can only be stopped by mid/low side-step killers (assuming you don't use it at huge frame disadvantage, let's say after a blocked 2A+B)


What I meant was that this move gives you a combo if you hit the opponent with it (1B BE, 6KB) and when it gets blocked (1B BE, 6B8K/4B) this moves gives you so much advantage on block that 4B or 6B8K cannot be blocked.

Is it confirmed if FC 1B and FC 1(B) have the same frames? I always thought the latter was slower and that the FD in the guide was wrong.

 

[Ring]

Is it confirmed if FC 1B and FC 1(B) have the same frames? I always thought the latter was slower and that the FD in the guide was wrong.

Yes, it's slower. I noticed that when I was doing Nightmare's punishment chart a few days ago. But the difference can be 1 or 2 frames only. If you use it as a whiff punisher it makes no difference really.

FC 1B still has the same issues as in previous SC games where big characters sometimes do not get launched even at close range. You must hit them from the side, it's really annoying.