SCV Tier List

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darkfender said:
I also played whoazz but that was online on scIV lol but was fun the same....

do you know after ivy started to win how many people started to play IVY?
Where are them now ;)

People likes to win with the less effort possible.......the others just plays raphael (i would've said rock once) or maxi and lose with style XD


As i said try to ask yourself if at decent levels its more challenging on scIV to win with IVY, hilde or ROCK (if you can t, you can find the answer asking what happened 2 world cups ago and who was praysed as an hero XD).
Translate that with scV tiers.
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Uh.....dude...I need to put this shit in google translate. Why? Because I can't understand shit from this post.
 
MysticBoudha said:
I have been playing Akira since VF1 like crazy. Akira isn't an easy character to play but he his far from the hardest. Im far from top japanese execution skills but i can tell you for sure that the system in itself needs more execution skills than a character in VF. Also if you think that Akira is hard to use. Real Kage players would like to have a word with you. Only difficult move that Akira has his is one frame knee. Which is pretty much like Yoshi a:B+K now.

With all that said, Akira is top tier in VF5FS and im glad he his cause usually he's not. I don't know where you get your crappy VF knowledge but it's mad wrong.
About SSF IV AE. You talking about minority? DAIGO himself said that Yun isn't broken because of how good he his but of how easy to use he his. All the japanese community agreed ( in general ) that Yang and Viper where top in 2012. You sir are just spouting nonsense and i won't stand there and do nothing about it. Get your facts straight.

On the topic at hand i agree completely with Cosmic here. People at high level won't play hard to use characters even if they are considered that much OP. Let 3 or 4 majors pass and my bet his you will see no Patsuka has the winner in those.

With all that said, its FAR too early to have tier lists with a so much different SC now. And even if there is one i think it will be pretty balanced. Akira always top tier :S LMFAO!!!!!!
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Since most people here have some idea about SF4 AE, I won't waste my time with you word twisters.

Now on Akira, can you read? Akira is hard to use is in the same sense as aPat, execution, he is not hard to play in other sense as in complexity,and my reply to someone who think execution skill should be rewarded. Funny you are the only one did not get that in this thread, might learn to read first before posting. System itself is hard? Do you mean defensive techs? Again, that has nothing to do with what we are discussing.

Edit: Deleted, sorry did notice how Off topic it was getting.
 
Everyone wondering about high execution and top tiers should look no further than MvC2 Sent. Sentinel, by his/its size alone should pretty much be a mid/upper mid-tier character at best in a game where characters can control so much space and easily hit with large hitboxes (as proven by how MvC3 Sent was never considered top tier, not even pre-health nerf). In MvC2, this is exacerbated more by the fact that everyone has a Sent specific infinite. What made him/it not only top tier, ut the best among the god tier in MvC2 was that folks with good enough execution could exploit certain things to put out amazing amounts of damage. The most important of these things was fast fly/fast unfly. By using Sentinels ability to quickly transition in and out of flight mode, people with high enough execution could put out amazing amounts of damage, especially when combined with the right assists. Just check this video out. Pulling this shizz off ain't easy off course, but at the top end, that really didn't matter as much.

The point of this off course is, execution doesn't matter when it comes to tiers. As a game matures, when players have both leveled up their execution as well as found the tech to use, execution becomes a non-issue. A.Pat may be harder to use than, say Natsu, but who knows what will happen down the line as people find more stuff.

P.S. For more 2D examples of high-execution being high tier, just look at any Capcom game with a custom combo groove/ISM. It's always that option that produces the top tier characters.
 
It's not that execution is not a skill. However, it shouldn't be held up in exclusion to other skills, is the main point. When something is so broken that it can influence gameplay to the point where a lot of the strategy and player interaction goes out the door, it doesn't matter how hard it is to do. You shouldn't be able to use high execution to justify something being overpowered. There's nothing wrong with getting high rewards for something that is hard to do, and in fact that's pretty much an expectation, otherwise that character will not get any serious playtime. But saying you should, for example, nerf damage on certain characters and not on other characters due to disparities in execution is not right. If you want a balanced game, you make those types of decisions based on overall effectiveness in relation to the characters' total abilities, not on execution. And if you have a character where nerfing their damage is unfair because of how hard it is to use them, then the best solution is to either make the character easier or buff them in other places. Hard execution shouldn't be the defining characteristic of any character.
 
APat is OP, period.

Super high damage combos from fast CH pokes? Check

Tracking vertical that tech jumps AND tech crouches, is insanely fast, insanely safe, hits grounded opponent, has great range due to it lunging forward, combo's into itself, and does a hefty amount of damage? (FC 3aB). Check

Has the fastest CE in the game (8 frames)? check

Has quick lows that you can't react to? check

Strong RO game? check

Safe on almost every move in the list? check

Setsuka from sc4 was balanced, reasonable, and could be dealt with, no problem. Patsuka is on a whole other level beyond bullshit. I can't punish 99% of his moves, but he can punish 99% of my moves? Total BS.

I know it's early to call a character OP, but MANY people on 8wr, both casual and hardcore, have stated that he needs a few nerfs. They can't all be wrong.
 
FC 3a:B is actually not safe but launcher punishable. If it was safe it would be game breaking ;)
 
Ring said:
FC 3a:B is actually not safe but launcher punishable. If it was safe it would be game breaking ;)
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I've tried all Sieg's quickest moves, and none of them punish.

If it's unsafe, then only some characters can exploit it. I can't even punish with K, which is 13 frames (I'm pretty sure that's his quickest move).

I basically have to wait for a whiff if I wanna punish at all.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
I've tried all Sieg's quickest moves, and none of them punish.

If it's unsafe, then only some characters can exploit it. I can't even punish with K, which is 13 frames (I'm pretty sure that's his quickest move).

I basically have to wait for a whiff if I wanna punish at all.
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It's -22 on block, you should be able to punish it with almost everything. Maybe the move ends in tech crouch and you can't punish it with high attacks (it's happens often with low attacks), I'm not sure. But any mid should work. Try 3B for example.
 
Ring said:
He's not that hard to play as some people make him to be. Setsuka was difficult, but now that "umbrella" (FC 3a:B) has the property of hitting grounded opponents every combo is really easy, no strict timings. He is completely broken.
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Only JF Twister hits grounded opponents. But I guess people who are good are gonna hit the JF version everytime anyway (something I can't even hope to do, haha).

From the POV of someone who never played Setsuka in SCIV and is learning the style for the very first time with Alpha Pat, it seems to me that for the level of work you have to put him to be able to attain that kind of skill (learning all the JFs, being able to pull them out at nearly all times in real fights and combo situations), he should reward your efforts by being really freaking strong. Especially since there are people who can seemingly compete with him (like Pyrrha Omega and such) without having to get nearly as good with the character.

Just my thoughts on it, I don't expect to change anyone's minds or anything. :)
 
Ring said:
It's -22 on block, you should be able to punish it with almost everything. Maybe the move ends in tech crouch and you can't punish it with high attacks (it's happens often with low attacks), I'm not sure. But any mid should work. Try 3B for example.
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Dude, there is NO WAY it's -22. 3B is 18 frames, and that move does NOT work. I don't know where you got your info, but it just seems wrong.

The only other explanation is that the AI is able to do things humans can't, such as recover faster.

If it was -22, I would have been punishing that shit every time, but guess what? I can't.
 
Alpha Patroklos is overpowered. He's fast, strong and has the most annoying combos in the game. Playing against a character in Quick Battle with his style is like having sex without a condom; it is dangerous and you might regret it later.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
Dude, there is NO WAY it's -22. 3B is 18 frames, and that move does NOT work. I don't know where you got your info, but it just seems wrong.

The only other explanation is that the AI is able to do things humans can't, such as recover faster.

If it was -22, I would have been punishing that shit every time, but guess what? I can't.
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It is -22. If you can't punish it it means you are doing it too slow. Try buffering your punish before the animation of FC 3a:B ends. I just double checked that in training mode and I could punish this move with almost every Sieg's move. You can try that yourself, pick Alpha as the second char and record doing FC 3a:B [G] and then try to punish him on block =)
 
coolfighter1993 said:
Alpha Patroklos is overpowered. He's fast, strong and has the most annoying combos in the game. Playing against a character in Quick Battle with his style is like having sex without a condom; it is dangerous and you might regret it later.
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No, it's nothing like it.

At least having sex without a condom is fun while doing it, fighting A-Pat is nothing but an agonizing grind right from the start.
 
Ring said:
It is -22. If you can't punish it it means you are doing it too slow. Try buffering your punish before the animation of FC 3a:B ends. I just double checked that in training mode and I could punish this move with almost every Sieg's move. You can try that yourself, pick Alpha as the second char and record doing FC 3a:B [G] and then try to punish him on block =)
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Try that in legendary souls, then get back to me :)

at this point I'm convinced that the AI recovers faster. Fucking cheating AI
 
I don't know... personally I have never noticed this and never had any problems with punishing this move. It's just really fast and you have to react quickly.

The only time I saw A.I cheating was in SC:BD (PSP version) where Hilde was using level 3 charges twice in a row (it's impossible)
 
@ring
Or maybe the JF version is safer?

Your right, I just checked it in training mode. Since I can't pull off the JF version, I still don't know about that.
 
To all Alpha Pat haters:
If he's so tough, main him.

We all know the only reason you people don't is because you suck at execution and are jealous of us being rewarded for having greater technical abilities.
GG's.

=P
 
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