SCV Tier List
- Thread starter Makatak
- Start date
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Fixed =P
Cosmic_Castaway
[09] Warrior
That's just because of how I type, really.
Well for one, I would watch the couple of matches of Dr. Dogg's ZWEI here:
http://www.twitch.tv/thedigitaldojo/b/310214625
Starts at 1:20:00.
His ZWEI is very basic (because ZWEI is his secondary, not his main), but you'll note how he's basically always calling EIN, including on wakeup to set up another attack or interrupt offense. He also delays EIN in one match to make 3B safe. If he were more willing to use meter, he could have done moves like B+K~A+B+K to achieve this as well.
Secondly here is a miscallaneous example: mid EIN attacks (like B,B or whatever it is) can make 66BA safe. And 66BA is probably his best move: 55+ raw damage, RO, and sets up stupid oki (like a free 214B or 66A+B).
HiguraShiki
[10] Knight
ZWEI's moves are too slow, he is easy to sidestep, and Ein doesn't save him that much.
Sure he has long combo's, but he can barely land any of them due to the fact that he is the easiest character to sidestep and punish in the game.
No it can't - B(B) is +2 on block, that's all. 66BA is still duck on reaction and punish with death-able regardless.
Another example?
Cosmic_Castaway
[09] Warrior
I don't see how speed is a problem when everyone considers two of the slowest characters in the game (Nightmare and Astaroth) to be really good. Also, clarify what you mean by "EIN doesn't save him that much."
Btw, Viola/Aeon are the most punishable and steppable characters, as far as I know anyway. O.o
You hold B, and then do 66BA so that both EIN and ZWEI are hitting them at the same time. That's how EIN makes ZWEI safe.
HiguraShiki
[10] Knight
I rather see video's of Zwei getting owned
HiguraShiki
[10] Knight
Nightmare is actually much faster than ZWEI. Astaroth might be slow as hell but he compensates for being able to do high damage and because his bump is fast.
What does Zwei have for an advantage? A wolf that can only save him if the opponent falls for a cheap delay trick where Zwei misses and he charges in for a hit and instead gets hit by Ein. That is pretty much it, Zwei has almost no strengths at all.
You are confusing player ability with how well the character actually is. Well the character is really pretty damn bad, just a bit flashy is all.
I prefer Viola.
Heaton
A Soul in the Purgatory
List updated to reflect WHORES consensus by community members.
What you are talking about is B+K BE, 66BA. Ignoring the fact that this uses meter, the B+K BE announces EIN is coming and you can do two things:
Try these yourself
1 - The easy option that requires meter:
GI second hit of 66BA on reaction
2 - The sexy option:
Block the first hit, then perform a low just guard.
I just tried punishing these with ZWEI (a renowned bad punisher) and got the following results:
95 damage, 75% meter (GI, CE combo)
10 damage, 0 meter +8 (2A)
Real safe: with no meter I could gain significant frame advantage, deal damage and have my opponent lose 25% meter.
Should I go for the zero meter option, then there is a mixup to be had between B+K BE and [B+K BE] as the latter will win against a JG attempt, but loses to ducking the second hit ~ 2A.
Put simply, you can use meter and force a 50/50 mixup if I choose to not use meter, but should I have it in stock, you will die.
HiguraShiki
[10] Knight
Makes me wonder which character Zwei was supposed to replace.
Cosmic_Castaway
[09] Warrior
Did you not watch the video I linked? This does not require meter. Sure, the meter version is better (obviously), but you can delay any EIN attack so that ZWEI is hitting you at the same time as the wolf, or before, allowing the wolf to followup immediately. i.e. ZWEI will be hitting you high with the second hit of 66BA while the wolf is hitting you mid with (B). You can't duck and punish ZWEI while that's happening. And as you already said, the (B) is +2. Hence, ZWEI is safe.
Yes but you can't delay (B) so I have no idea what move you are on about.
You must mean 1B or 4A?
Regarding the video, give me a direct link to the example, not a 'watch these matches' I'm in the middle of a casuals session here man.
In any case, you have at least proven you don't know ZWEI paticularly well, so why are you discussing his viability with me if you still need to learn him.
*Note*
I am happy to talk ZWEI, but can people doing so either play the character themselves or at the very least learn his moveset. Thankyou.
You must mean 1B or 4A?
Regarding the video, give me a direct link to the example, not a 'watch these matches' I'm in the middle of a casuals session here man.
In any case, you have at least proven you don't know ZWEI paticularly well, so why are you discussing his viability with me if you still need to learn him.
*Note*
I am happy to talk ZWEI, but can people doing so either play the character themselves or at the very least learn his moveset. Thankyou.
KingAce
HERMITISM
IMO
Toptier
A pat, Natsu, Astaroth, Leixia, Pyrrha
Hightier
Pyrrha O, Maxi, Xiba, Mitsu, NM
Midtier
Algol, Tira, Voldo, Viola, Hilde, Yoshi
LowMid
Siegfried, Pat, Raphael, Aeon, Ivy, Zwei
Toptier
A pat, Natsu, Astaroth, Leixia, Pyrrha
Hightier
Pyrrha O, Maxi, Xiba, Mitsu, NM
Midtier
Algol, Tira, Voldo, Viola, Hilde, Yoshi
LowMid
Siegfried, Pat, Raphael, Aeon, Ivy, Zwei
Ring
Lay still now
I think Ivy is slightly better than this.
Infernum
[11] Champion
especially when you play with her :P
Kalas
[13] Hero
Well (B) is +2 on block, but that's it. Nothing is a forced block afterwards.
And by the way, Z.W.E.I. can't use (B) (with the E.I.N. follow-up that is +2 on block) when he's still charging another E.I.N.-attack. So 1(B) (B) is not possible because the wolf won't appear for the second charge attack.
In the same way 1(B) 66BA isn't dangerous either. He can't release E.I.N. after 66BA because he already has to release B before in order to do 66BA. And the E.I.N.-charge of 1(B) hits high, just like the 2nd hit of 66BA.
I can understand that Z.W.E.I. seems like a very strong character at first sight, but he really isn't good if you know his main strings.
Cosmic_Castaway
[09] Warrior
>___>;
Smh. Just...smh. I told you where they started, and it's like two matches. It's not hard to figure out that someone's going to have difficulty making a point when you won't look at the examples they've given you. Yeah, I'm done now.
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