Siegfried Anti Matchup Discussion: Building A Master Guide

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
figured we haven't had many of these in a while, so i made a new one. u can't play calibur off frame data alone.

this is hopefully going to be a place where we build a master anti matchup guide, and perhaps also make a matchup chart for siegfried so that we can gather all the information in one place, as well as updating matchup data so that it is efficiently up to date, adding new strategies, shooting down strats that haven't worked so well in the past, and eventually compiling anti matchup data vs every character in the game. to start with i'll set a basis for this post which will be updated regularily(i just think its more effecient if people dont have to read through the whole thread to find what they're looking for...)and once i have the opportunity i'll add some of the old matchup data previously gathered in this SA, some of which are up to 2 years old, and we can help flesh it out a little more, and correct any inaccuracies as we see fit(im going out for a few hours so u can probably expect this to be done no sooner than tomorrow). once i feel that this thread is very close to the completion of its goals and am sure that the data is indeed accurate, i will re-post it as a complete master guide, and maybe even add it to the wiki if they'll let me.

So discuss away! Keep it civil! ^_^

EDIT: due to the disorganized clutter of the 1st post, i've moved final postings of guides to a new thread. guides shall continue to be developed and shared in this thread, however finished and prototype guides will be re-posted and eventually re-formatted here: http://www.8wayrun.com/threads/sciv-siegfried-official-matchup-guide.7162/

*as information is gradually re-posted it will be deleted from this main post to reduce clutter.

*Character Guides:
*guides are rough draft in both format and should be considered as such until this post is finalized.

To Do List:

  • Algol
  • Cervantes
  • Darth Vader
  • Hilde(prototype stages)
  • Ivy(prototype stages)
  • Kilik
  • Lizardman
  • Maxi
  • Mitsurugi
  • Nightmare
  • Raphael
  • Rock
  • Seong Mina
  • Setsuka
  • Siegfried(prototype stages)
  • Sophitia
  • Taki
  • Talim
  • The Apprentice
  • Tira
  • Voldo
  • Xianghua(prototype stages)
  • Yoda
  • Yoshimitsu
  • Yunsung
Punishment Videos:

Coming soon...
 

Synraii

[14] Master
Vs Ivy:
Spacing is key here IMO:
Whilst Ivy can be effective across the full spectrum of range, her punishment is very much constricted to SW, so forcing her to play mid to longer ranges is handy considering Siegfrieds lack of safety, which very much brings Sieg's pressure games to the forefront. I find the best general range is tip range of A.
Know your tools! A is a good albeit slow, safe poke with excellent pushback on block.
B6 is useful but be careful where you use it: Yes it has excellent SG damage - 15 I think? Yes it has ok pushback, but it is steppable to either side, mix it in with iAgA's 6A's and 3A's and it really helps in keeping the pressure. Spam it and you will get whiff punished till your head spins.
Always bear in mind that if you keep her spaced to mid range most Ivy's will bite back mainly in CL and whilst she cannot really punish you, it gives her the best movement of all her stances, DO NOT let her take advantage! Keep the step shut down with iAgA, re space with MIDS if possible (Decent Ivy players will most likely try to catch you out with WS B, most likely leading into SW with her at close range and you grounded - a VERY bad place to be.) The best tool to handle any optimistic duckers is 3A - it will respace, tracks left, KND on hit and good damage. A good tool to teach them to stand.
Ivy players may instead take the fight to you and zone you out completely in WP, which does appear intimidating and tough to deal with. If attempted they are looking for whiffs and silly mistakes - that means:
1:Learn your ranges
2: NO silly WS AA's
To keep you zoned Ivy can use 6B+K 2_8 as it maintains range and zones from close. This move gives too much pushback to punish but is -24 on block, make sure the ivy players realise that eg. At close range, WP 6B+K 2_8 on block yields a 6B force block, at longer ranges utilise Siegs excellent FWD step and check her, but make it a safe option. If Ivy is allowed to get away with WP 6B+K, step INS are a real bitch to accomplish.
Be wary also of her 22_88 A / 11_77 A at mid range they are tough to deal with but on block a good oppertunity to step in. Be wary of 6B 22_88B - you do not want to be grounded here as she can step away and send you back to square 1. Bad times.
WP 3A: though an ivy player would call this a good tool, I call it a last resort. It is her quickest tool in WP and if they throw it out it is a good sign: you have passed her zoning and she is fishing for a counter hit to give a combo or a chance to re zone you. Don't take unnecessary risks here, at this range you are far more comfortable than ivy in WP. Force her back into CL and turn the tables with your own spacing.
Finally we have SW: this stance is kryptonite at close range against sieg. Here she holds all the cards - here she will punish you and punish you hard - be very careful here! Play it safe and utilise throws - grapple breaks will help you space her. Learn to break iCS, as you don't want to twitch duck at this range under any circumstance. Keep a cool head and respace, then you can apply your own pressure but remember - spacing and safety first - pressure second.
CL 214[B ] is a prime punishing oppertunity and a sign of desperate Ivy - capitalise.
Otherwise learn her frame traps and you should be fine.
As a side note - CL A+B will whiff the third hit if you stay crouched at tip range, punish with WS B SCH B.
That enough Slayer? ^_~
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
lol yea thats great synraii. i'll see what else i can add to it, and then it'llget thrown up there with the others. good work!
 

Synraii

[14] Master
To be honest, my experience against offline Ivy is fairly limited, so I can't test that strategy thoroughly yet, but it seems to shut down most of her major options and B&B stuff. I think it's important and not duely noted the spacing qualities of grapple breaks.
... Actually, I'm not entirely sure how best to handle CL1B B+K, I'll think about that in the morning - I need my beauty sleep =\
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
well every1 can work on it together too. if we ask pantocrator nicely he also may be able to add some stuff, seeing as he took malek offline
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
yes i know, but if u look at it from my perspective that also means pantocrator has 2 more years of ivy experience under his belt ^_~
 

Synraii

[14] Master
This is true, anyways I'm gonna do some more testing - I'll try to get a strategy up for sophitia seeing as she's Siegfrieds worst matchup.
 

Pantocrator

[10] Knight
LOL

First, guys, I'm happy by your enthousiam. Yes, I'll help you. Probably sinc next week (after Cannes).

Some fast remarks :

-Except in mirror match, no mention about Sieg's 3B. Damn !
-About the mirror : I like mirror very much. Very interesting, an incredible mix of Knowledge, mind game and space gestion. Punishment is important (btw the 3[B ] punischment is a+k[A] SCHK_A). you have to make the good choice against stance shifting, Siegfried does'nt cover a lot of option in mirror, but it hurts ! In any case, the main question is : "who is the master of CH ??? who will perform CH 3B first, ahahah http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DyvzfyqYm_s )
-About Ivy : yes I did'nt win against malek for... 1 year :-). But I think my last vid against him is very interesting, even it's not perfect (especially about punishment).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJwuvaInwOg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M22Hxa0JD1I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkaJOEJ3gMo
(and why not 2 years of video on the net)
-About Amy : I think you have to take risk, you really need to dominate the mid range. Her punishment are weak (even she punish every think). You have to do damage. Btw 2B+K punishment is WS [B ] SCH kB_[B ] + wake up.
-About hilde : Counter pick for yoda....
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
LOL

First, guys, I'm happy by your enthousiam. Yes, I'll help you. Probably sinc next week (after Cannes).

Some fast remarks :

-Except in mirror match, no mention about Sieg's 3B. Damn !
>.< i really dont use 3B a whole lot. if anything i've replaced almost all my 3B with WR B. only time i whip out 3B is when im CH fishing, whiff punishing, in some sort of mixup that improves its chances of hitting, off post GI mixups, if im in need to take a risk to cause damage (i usually consider what better options i have 1st) and occasionally off moves that are + on block (real cautious about this last 1 since 3B is still stepable and punishable).

also thx for the correction in punishment. just to make sure, does B+K's agi catch a+k{A}?

i'll study you're vids after dinner and see what i can learn from them. im sure they'll be plenty helpful indeed.

-About hilde : Counter pick for yoda....
LMAO!
 

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
Slayer, we should probably do some Raph VS Sieg matches to see what stupid stuff we can do.
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
sounds like a plan. i already have some anti raph in mind after fighting wuht a few days ago, but to re-enforce it surely wouldnt hurt.
 

darkfender

[10] Knight
Anti Raph: Step left... Step right... Step left... Step right... =P
i don't suggest u to even try that ...expecially to raph strong side.

I find quite effective to try baiting whiffs like 3B 8B+K just to see if your oppo is smart enough to use K instead of 6B (wich will whiff) that is a habit common to most raphs ._.

Its a difficult matchup cause raph can effectively punish/interrupt anything sieg tries....Couple that with sieg awful step and u have a raph that just pokes and wait to punish ._.
 

Synraii

[14] Master
... That wasn't a serious suggestion on my part, silly. If It was, my strategy would be in easy excess of 500 words. Besides, I'm no Raphael expert myself so it's not my subject.
 

Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
i don't suggest u to even try that ...expecially to raph strong side.

I find quite effective to try baiting whiffs like 3B 8B+K just to see if your oppo is smart enough to use K instead of 6B (wich will whiff) that is a habit common to most raphs ._.

Its a difficult matchup cause raph can effectively punish/interrupt anything sieg tries....Couple that with sieg awful step and u have a raph that just pokes and wait to punish ._.
aye but sieg can step more effectively than people give him credit for still. if you play your cards right, u can still step the crap out of raph even with that awful step. the trick is not to try spacing raph, because hes naturally better at it than you are. the way you step is dependant on what moves your opponent tends to favour. if u see alot of WR B being thrown out(infact u can instigate this and 4B with alot of grabs/aga), you step right. otherwise, under most circumstances, you step left. but both avoiding WR B and exploiting the opening created when u step it effectively is enough to get them to take risks that you can in turn punish and exploit - siegs not half bad at punishing himself. as for 3B, they can always just 2A you out of that anyways i believe. the match up is 5-5 in my mind because although raph's punishment and spacing abilities take away alot of siegs options, sieg still has good enough step mix ups and aggro to give a good raph a hard time, thus taking control of the match. im not gonna get into detail with it now, but i'll try to explain what im trying to say when i write his guide.