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That's why I said "half TC", but maybe "semi "TC is more appropriate. You're right, the move never TC at close range in any case (in the past I tested a lot of situation), and semi TC move doesn't work at close range. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't TC at all. In this game there is semi TC and Half frame (hehe, that's why namco never publish is frame data...).sorry for the late response. yes i did test what u said pantocrator, and when tested at a normal distance, 3A *appeared* to TC. however i tested it near a wall to eliminate the pushback of WR B, and 3A does not TC NSS K in that scenario. unfortunately its not a real TC, its just the way that siegfried moves, as stated before. however, if u have anything else you would like me to test, i'd be more than happy to do so for you ^_^
LOL well then i'd be taking the credit for all the frame data work =PYou could test if anyone notices if you change the thread title to 'Slayer's official blog' XD
Though could you test how many free frames one gets from the BT SCH ago exactly, I want to know how long I can laugh at my opponent for before I launch them ^_^.
yes, i can and will re-test this for you(sorry for such late responses, i've had alot of tests and stuff this week). as for the half TC stuff on 3A, i'll examine it more closely at mid-long range, and i'll let u know what i discover.That's why I said "half TC", but maybe "semi "TC is more appropriate. You're right, the move never TC at close range in any case (in the past I tested a lot of situation), and semi TC move doesn't work at close range. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't TC at all. In this game there is semi TC and Half frame (hehe, that's why namco never publish is frame data...).
About 3A, I posted about is TC potential because I think it can help. IMAO my example support this idea : 3A against nightmare in this set up is very insane, and become btw important in this MU.
Moreover the natural range is the more pertinent, because the other close range situation rarely happen ( crouch against Siegfried near the edge is really risky...)
If somebody one day want to use the 8wayrun's frame data, maybe the information about 3A's TC potential will generate new lead in his researchs, and why not new discoveries.
I have a question about 22A, if you agree to test. In my memory (it's far and now I can't check) the move is semi TC too, and doesn't TC throw (and result a side throw...). Do you invalidate this and confirm that it's a true TC during [17-29] ?
thx
lol ok, lets take it to PM's, or PSNSlayer teach me the way of finding out frame data
22_88A is a true TC [17-29]That's why I said "half TC", but maybe "semi "TC is more appropriate. You're right, the move never TC at close range in any case (in the past I tested a lot of situation), and semi TC move doesn't work at close range. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't TC at all. In this game there is semi TC and Half frame (hehe, that's why namco never publish is frame data...).
About 3A, I posted about is TC potential because I think it can help. IMAO my example support this idea : 3A against nightmare in this set up is very insane, and become btw important in this MU.
Moreover the natural range is the more pertinent, because the other close range situation rarely happen ( crouch against Siegfried near the edge is really risky...)
If somebody one day want to use the 8wayrun's frame data, maybe the information about 3A's TC potential will generate new lead in his researchs, and why not new discoveries.
I have a question about 22A, if you agree to test. In my memory (it's far and now I can't check) the move is semi TC too, and doesn't TC throw (and result a side throw...). Do you invalidate this and confirm that it's a true TC during [17-29] ?
thx
Wiki says i13, unless I read 4s as 3s. So is it i14 or i13?K is i14, Sieg has no <i13 out of stance.
(Please like this post =3)
K is indeed i13. no FC A+G/B+G pickup gives +13 frames, but as noted in the wiki they are safe frames; nothing actually combo's off the + frames. but all of the opponents attacks do come out 13 frames late.So, let me get this straight. FC A+G/B+G pickup gives +13 frames to Siegfried. Which means... he gets a free K? So he picks up his opponent off of the ground only to kick them in the face? Which also leaves him at +2.
its not so much that his hitbox moves back as it moves all over the place. it moves backwards and slightly to the left, and as far as i can see the move either has pro step or it evades verticals like a pro, because according to my research it also evades long range highs that have little or no tracking such as raph 6B. infact the only moves i could even land consistently at tip range were high horizontals. hence why i called it an HTC. whether the evasion properties are caused by the hitbox shift, or by a hidden HTC are really unclear for me. but what the move really is doesnt really matter so long as we point out the fact that it has evasive properties against non horizontal high attacks at tip range. because it also only evades within a certain amount of frames.As I tested 3A years ago, it doensn't have TC, but it moves Sieg's hitbox a step or two back. In other words, short range highs will miss, but highs with similar speed but longer range can definately hurt you...or so I recall. Test 6A and K for example, I used to have Excel-file of various testing conditions...
K is indeed i13. no FC A+G/B+G pickup gives +13 frames, but as noted in the wiki they are safe frames; nothing actually combo's off the + frames. but all of the opponents attacks do come out 13 frames late.
K is indeed i13. no FC A+G/B+G pickup gives +13 frames, but as noted in the wiki they are safe frames; nothing actually combo's off the + frames. but all of the opponents attacks do come out 13 frames late.
I would also like "safe frames" explained. I don't think I've heard the term before, and though I think I understand the function, I cannot find any further information on this type of frame.This doesn't make sense, unless the following is possible: There is some fourth kind of stun in this game, where, you can 'wait out' the stun in the Guard state, but you cannot interrupt the stun and otherwise have no options. With this FC Throw evidence for Siegfried being undisputed, is that not evidence of this kind of stun? And if so, is it possible that other attacks have this quality?
I would also like "safe frames" explained. I don't think I've heard the term before, and though I think I understand the function, I cannot find any further information on this type of frame.
As I understand it, it's basically frames where, although you can't get anything guaranteed off of the frames, you are safe from retaliation, and can apply pressure with those frames instead. So, for example, from FC A+G_B+G on grounded, you can use those frames to set up a mixup a la 6B+K, SRSH K_B.
lol well pretty much. what safe frames means is that while you have enough frames that you could theoretically attack, the opponent can block anyways. yet when they retaliate their attack comes out very late. so basically this is how this works:I would also like "safe frames" explained. I don't think I've heard the term before, and though I think I understand the function, I cannot find any further information on this type of frame.
Nice catch pantocrator. thx to this, i also re-tested all of the SBH transition data, it seems that SBH transitions are i20, no matter what stance you transition from(including neutral). all agi frames start on frame 13 when executed from stance, and start on frame 7 when executed from neutral. the TC frames are affected in the same way, and are the same for all the stances, yet early for neutral transition.SRSH_SCH_SSH B+K 's first autogi frame is i13.
This is what you are saying that accounts for seeing FC A+G (otg), K does not combo. It explains that data, in a way that the usual "the target is in 13 more frames of lag/stun " cannot.lol well pretty much. what safe frames means is that while you have enough frames that you could theoretically attack, the opponent can block anyways. yet when they retaliate their attack comes out very late. so basically this is how this works: