Siegfried General Discussion / Q&A

ZER0

[13] Hero
Very rarely do I come across a sieg that can defeat me consistently. So far it's only sandman, but thanks zero i appreciate it
yh I fought Panto in person during the Edgemaster Series Major I think the score was 17-7...but yes Panto is one of the best Siegfrieds I've ever come across, not to mention one of my favourites next to @Silent_Joel
 

Heaton

A Soul in the Purgatory
What are some good options if 3(B) is blocked?

Don't get 3B blocked. You have a lot of great moves that make it really unnecessary to throw out 3B as a consistent part of your gameplan, which a lot of novice to intermediate Siegfried players seem to forget. Or shitty Siegfried players like me.

Also something @LostProvidence said was to sometimes throw out 3B instead. I still think he's full of shit, but he's a magical man, so who knows?
 

Sandman

Windjammers World Champion
Because we're idiots.

Actually I was just thinking about this today. I used to use it a lot but I stopped for some reason. Good mid, safe, +4 on hit, and you can fuck with people by doing 3KK on occasion (some people forget it's a thing)
 

Silent Joel

[12] Conqueror
@ZER0 Panto is XBL, but doesn't play SCV online.

How can Sieg players not use 3k at close range? 3k series is really good to keep them guessing especially at ring edge for RO's
 

Pantocrator

[10] Knight
3K is very good yes, IMHO it is in Siegfried's top5 moves.
The push back, the range and the frame are interesting.
I think that the best way to use it is at tip range.

On the other side it is stepable and it is doing 16 dmg, so people just don't care to get hit by this hahaha.
It is +4 on hit, but Siegfried is slow so you can't really preasure behind this. t#To keep the advantage against fast 2A / AA you have to go for K,1K or 66K (all are also stepable and 66K has a big recovery)
So it doesn't bring that much to spam this, even if it is very good like I said.


For the mix up "3KK/3K something else" it doesn't work since you can confirm Siegfried's movement and punish. But you can of course try against people who are not use to it. :)

PS: I may be back soon (march) on Xboxlive.
 
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Der Lindwurm

Premium Member
For the mix up "3KK/3K something else" it doesn't work since you can confirm Siegfried's movement and punish. But you can of course try against people who are not use to it. :)
And don't forget about 3KK into 236B. Why that works as often as it does is one of the great unsolved mysteries of the game. Maybe because people just never expect an unblockable from Siegfried ever.
 

ZER0

[13] Hero
And don't forget about 3KK into 236B. Why that works as often as it does is one of the great unsolved mysteries of the game. Maybe because people just never expect an unblockable from Siegfried ever.

or SBH B ~ 236B, I never expect that...ever ;_;
 

Sandman

Windjammers World Champion
And don't forget about 3KK into 236B. Why that works as often as it does is one of the great unsolved mysteries of the game. Maybe because people just never expect an unblockable from Siegfried ever.

@Party Wolf pointed this out to me at some tournament or another, and I've hit people with it somehow. Hilarious.

EDIT: re: 3KK mixups, yeah, it's definitely not a real mixup. I'm not recommending you use it with any regularity whatsoever. But like I said, some people seem to forget it's a thing at all, so like if you have them back against the ring edge and you've been using a lot of straight 3K, you can steal a round with it.
 

hwang24

[10] Knight
My Siegfried is LACKING.
This video is from an online fight that only accepted Creations: sure. But can anyone give critiques, moves I could have done instead of some moves I did do in certain parts of the match and other input?

 
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Slayer_X64

Siegfried SA Moderator
My Siegfried is LACKING.
This video in from an online fight that only accepted Creations: sure. But can anyone give critiques, moves I could have done instead of some moves I did do in certain parts of the match and other input?

i'm a bit late to respond, but sure thing! i haven't played in a really long time, but i think i can help you out.

overall you want to keep the opponent at the tip range of your sword unless you are severely behind in damage. spacing for sieg is a happy balance that requires a lot of practice to figure out, so don't be discouraged if it takes you some time to master it.

don't attack after 2A, it's fairly negative even on hit. you can potentially try moving after it though, depending on what your opponent does, but it's still dangerous. that's not to say don't use 2A though, its a not-terribly-slow low horizontal poke with ok range (though sometimes characters can step through it).

don't use A+B or A+BA. they're pretty bad moves. I also wouldn't use 66A unless you're expecting a horizontal GI; the move is very very punishable on whiff, and duckable on reaction. and the GI is pretty situational too; if you really wanted a horizontal GUI, you're probably better off with SBH GI unless you need the GI from crouch.

You also might do better using a faster move like b6 to interrupt your opponent. And poking your opponent with fast moves like 3K, 1K, and 66K can also do wonders for you

66B force block on wakeup is generally good, it stops rolling, but you might do just a little bit better by trying to hit more with the tip of the move so that it's harder to punish. that's a good generalization for siegfried; things are usually harder to punish if they are done at tip range. there are some characters however who can punish you regardless of range.

you should learn how to do the move "agA". it's siegfried's best horizontal, it's + on block, and it's one of the best horizontals in the game. it also does decent damage, is required for some combos, it rings out, and it kills step.

you might want to sidestep a little bit more. those xiba BBs were tearing you up pretty good in the beginning there. also it might be good to learn the difference between step and 8wayrun. step tends to be better for evasive maneuvers (just tap 2 or 8 instead of holding them down and you will step. hold them down and you will 8wayrun. double tap them and you will quick-step).

3B is so punishable you may as well enter the stance transition every time. if you want to block, you can always cancel out of the stance transition with G afterwards, but because 3Bs stance transition is decent on block, you can potentially interrupt your opponent with SCH K, depending on what they do. this tactic isn't fool proof however, and can be beaten; some characters can beat the SCH K outright, and everyone can sidestep it and potentially punish you with a sidestepping TC, with the best case scenario forcing you to re-align, so use it with care.

if you don't know frame data, you would also benefit from checking out the frame data thread or the wiki:
https://8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-frame-data.8848/
https://8wayrun.com/wiki/siegfried-frame-data-sc5/

if you'd like to learn more in the way of combos, we have a thread for that too:
https://8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-combo-tech-trap-list.8847/

and we also have a punishment list for siegfried available if you're looking for more technical ways to retaliate against your opponents. punishment is very important at higher levels:
https://8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-punishment-list.14266/
 

linkorz

Super Moderator
There is no reason to ever use non-hold 3B. 3(B) is exactly the same frames with the G cancel, gives you combos on hit, and isn't necessarily punishable on block due to stances.
 

Solo

[14] Master
I agree pretty much with what Slayer says. Learning agA and using better pokes such as B6, 1K, 3K, etc. will take you a long way. Other huge thing to learn to get better with Sieg is to learn to keep the opponent at the tip range of your weapon the best you can. If you can do that you'll be able to throw out unsafe moves but still be "safe" depending on the character you're fighting(this never applies to Natsu, aPat, or the Pyrrha's). Doing a force block 66B after a 3( B ), SCH kBE, agA combo is a good example. Only about 3 characters in the game can punish that force block[Hilde CE, Omega DNS B, Natsu 66K(those are the ones I remember off the top of my head, I haven't played in some time)]. Other than that step more like Slayer said, work on those pokes, get the spacing down, and you'll have a Sieg that annoys a lot of people.
 

Der Lindwurm

Premium Member
But can anyone give critiques, moves I could have done instead of some moves I did do in certain parts of the match and other input?
Just to add a little to what everyone else has said - do more 22/88A if your opponent is doing a lot of predictable verticals, and if it's something like Xiba 2A+B that will have them tied up doing it for a while go for 22/88BB - that move is such an awesome whiff punisher if they do a slow vertical. Just make sure you do 22BB when facing left and 88BB when facing right for whiff insurance.

WRAA is a very risky move since it's so negative on block and if you somehow hit them with the first A while they're jumping and you go under them you're minus a million frames with them behind you. It's a good step killer or gap closer if you cancel it, but if your opponent is right on top of you WR(B) and WRK are much better out of a crouch.

If SRSH(K) gets blocked, don't go for SBHB. Try for SBHK instead if you think they'll do a slow enough attack to interrupt.
 
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Alex.J

[14] Master
i'm a bit late to respond, but sure thing! i haven't played in a really long time, but i think i can help you out.

overall you want to keep the opponent at the tip range of your sword unless you are severely behind in damage. spacing for sieg is a happy balance that requires a lot of practice to figure out, so don't be discouraged if it takes you some time to master it.

don't attack after 2A, it's fairly negative even on hit. you can potentially try moving after it though, depending on what your opponent does, but it's still dangerous. that's not to say don't use 2A though, its a not-terribly-slow low horizontal poke with ok range (though sometimes characters can step through it).

don't use A+B or A+BA. they're pretty bad moves. I also wouldn't use 66A unless you're expecting a horizontal GI; the move is very very punishable on whiff, and duckable on reaction. and the GI is pretty situational too; if you really wanted a horizontal GUI, you're probably better off with SBH GI unless you need the GI from crouch.

You also might do better using a faster move like b6 to interrupt your opponent. And poking your opponent with fast moves like 3K, 1K, and 66K can also do wonders for you

66B force block on wakeup is generally good, it stops rolling, but you might do just a little bit better by trying to hit more with the tip of the move so that it's harder to punish. that's a good generalization for siegfried; things are usually harder to punish if they are done at tip range. there are some characters however who can punish you regardless of range.

you should learn how to do the move "agA". it's siegfried's best horizontal, it's + on block, and it's one of the best horizontals in the game. it also does decent damage, is required for some combos, it rings out, and it kills step.

you might want to sidestep a little bit more. those xiba BBs were tearing you up pretty good in the beginning there. also it might be good to learn the difference between step and 8wayrun. step tends to be better for evasive maneuvers (just tap 2 or 8 instead of holding them down and you will step. hold them down and you will 8wayrun. double tap them and you will quick-step).

3B is so punishable you may as well enter the stance transition every time. if you want to block, you can always cancel out of the stance transition with G afterwards, but because 3Bs stance transition is decent on block, you can potentially interrupt your opponent with SCH K, depending on what they do. this tactic isn't fool proof however, and can be beaten; some characters can beat the SCH K outright, and everyone can sidestep it and potentially punish you with a sidestepping TC, with the best case scenario forcing you to re-align, so use it with care.

if you don't know frame data, you would also benefit from checking out the frame data thread or the wiki:
https://8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-frame-data.8848/
https://8wayrun.com/wiki/siegfried-frame-data-sc5/

if you'd like to learn more in the way of combos, we have a thread for that too:
https://8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-combo-tech-trap-list.8847/

and we also have a punishment list for siegfried available if you're looking for more technical ways to retaliate against your opponents. punishment is very important at higher levels:
https://8wayrun.com/threads/siegfried-punishment-list.14266/

You forgot to link this
https://soundcloud.com/titansquadrecords/siegfried-master-work