Siegfried Matchup Discussion Thread

ChaosK said:
True dat. Its probably save to say, that its one of his harder MUs.
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It's bullshit anyways. I played against 3 of my natsu friends on live and whenever i used siegfried I get curbstomped and there really good natsu players to top it off. This IS one of his harder and bad matchups...I prefer to fight astaroth in a FT 10 with siegfried compared to this one.
 
In my opinion Sieg has 4 really bad match ups. aPat, Omega, Natsu, and Viola. If you want by reasoning behind this feel free to ask.
 
Why do you think viola is so bad? I mean she is a strong character and she might probably not have bad MU's but i'd say sieg is actually a counterpick for her (or as close to a counterpick as you can get against viola). Its probably a 5:5 imho.
 
If i had to state siegfried's matchups, it would look something like this:

format is opponent VS siegfried

alpha Patroklos: 8-2
Aeon: 5-5
Algol: 6-4
Astaroth: 7-3
Cervantes: 7-3
Dampierre: 4-6
Ezio: 5-5 or a tough 4-6
Hilde: 6-4
Ivy: 6-4
Lexia: 5-5
Maxi: 5-5
Mitsurugi: 6-4
Natsu: 7-3
Nightmare: 5-5
Patroklos: 7-3
Pyrrha: 6-4
Omega Pyrrha: 8-2
Raphael: 6-4
Siegfried: 5-5
Tira: 5-5
Viola: a tough 5-5 or a good 6-4
Voldo: 6-4
Xiba: 5-5
Yoshimitsu: 4-6
Zwei: 4-6 or a good 5-5

thats approximately 129 points against and 108 for(first approximation results were used for their positive result)

Siegfried's overall matchup spread against the entire cast is 36/43 or 0.837. he's 21 matches in the negative.

while this may not be 100% accurate(perhaps slightly biased from my POV), it is very close, and it definately gives us some perspective for siegfried vs the rest of the cast.

I would conclude that he is in the lower half of the mid tier.
 
EyeofCalamity said:
hmm what about cervantes? I think thats real ugly for siegfried too.
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He isn't as bad as those 4 though. Although he's pretty bad. Lol
ChaosK said:
Why do you think viola is so bad?
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I know that you should zone her out and all that stuff but eventually she will get close to you. She'll do all the damage you got through pokes and zoning in one combo given she has the meter. Sieg doesn't a tool to shut down her pressure and even if he gets a GI he'll only get 45 damage from it (1B is gets the tip stun most of the time due to GI pushback). When Sieg is out of meter it's just a Viola pressure fest because Sieg can't do anything about it. That's not even mentioning her RO game is 5 times better than yours.
 
Solo has a point tho I mean you can zone true but you can't zone forever....and if you're constantly winning by zoning all match then your opponent is doing something wrong. Personally with slayers lists I think yoshi and siegfried is a dead even matchup, it's true yoshi is weak to spacing and will have a hard time getting in however sieg will have an equally hard time keeping yoshi out once he is in close range and having to defend against moves such as imcf,4B,FC3k,throws,8B+K. That matchup is all about who gets the other player to play their game the most.

And having used and played against alot of voldo players well I don't think he is that scary. Matter of fact if anything I say it could be even or even an advantage for siegfried. He struggles alot at mid range and even then his step kills are not scary enough to stop you from side stepping him alot which makes his 666 B harder to apply in matches although its really great at catching backstep.

Well thats all I have to add on his lists cuz i don't feel like doing a bunch of typing now lol
 
EyeofCalamity said:
Solo has a point tho I mean you can zone true but you can't zone forever....and if you're constantly winning by zoning all match then your opponent is doing something wrong. Personally with slayers lists I think yoshi and siegfried is a dead even matchup, it's true yoshi is weak to spacing and will have a hard time getting in however sieg will have an equally hard time keeping yoshi out once he is in close range and having to defend against moves such as imcf,4B,FC3k,throws,8B+K. That matchup is all about who gets the other player to play their game the most.

the problem is yoshimitsu has an extremely hard time getting in, and he has to take alot of risks of which siegfried can punish him severely hard for. its difficult to get him out once hes in, but its not impossible, and once he's back out, its once again very advantageous for siegfried. he out damages siegfried, but not by enough to decide the match all in one instance, and in the mean time siegfried can sit there and chip at/punish him all day long for trying to get in.

And having used and played against alot of voldo players well I don't think he is that scary. Matter of fact if anything I say it could be even or even an advantage for siegfried. He struggles alot at mid range and even then his step kills are not scary enough to stop you from side stepping him alot which makes his 666 B harder to apply in matches although its really great at catching backstep.

the reason why i put it at 6-4 is because once voldo gets in, he can seriously lock siegfried down to the point of we have 1K and 3K. also he has an easier time getting in because he has moves that bring him right into siegs face such as 236B and 3A+B, and although siegfried can punish him fairly well for these, he is more than capable of making up the damage because he can get in so easily. hes difficult to zone on top of that due to the amount of evasive moves he has, and he is also extremely good at whiff punishing, which can cause siegfried a hell of alot of pain, even off poke attempts.

on top of this he also out damages siegfried, and he does better gauge damage.

Well thats all I have to add on his lists cuz i don't feel like doing a bunch of typing now lol
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Haha well im not sure...nice to hear your opinion on it. I never felt siegfried really overwhelm me with anything when i use yoshi, true he can zone me but not forever tho. And about voldo...well guess i need to play more voldo players then even tho i already played some good one's. A good one can pressure me but I never felt he overwhelmed me or even had an advantage on me and I use that character quite often so I know a bit of his in's and out's.

Too bad i can't really play sc5 now because my controller disconnects non stop :/ gah gotta get a new one.
 
I've abused the hell out of my standard ps3 controllers for 2 years now, and they still work perfectly fine. Sucks that yours is broken, even used ones can be kinda pricy.
 
They both are bitches because they have Alexandra in the game.

Alexandra = Fucks up Siegfried every time! Anyway no matter what way you look at it the match-up for those two is sure not in Siegfried's favour.
 
If I had to guess, I would say it's because Pyrrha loses to spacing more than Pat does. Not to mention spacing is Sieg's specialty. Pat seems to have more moves that cover large distances.

Moves like 66B, A+B, 44B, 3A and 66A cover quite a lot of range. I can't think of anything that comes to mind off the top of my head that Pyrrha has that covers that kind of range.

I don't know much about Pyrrha, so if I'm wrong someone please correct me.
 
WolfLoneThe said:
Can I ask why you think Pat vs Sieg is worse than Pyrrha vs Sieg? I'm not disputing it, I just wanna know your reasoning.
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This:
damn-I-Suck said:
If I had to guess, I would say it's because Pyrrha loses to spacing more than Pat does. Not to mention spacing is Sieg's specialty. Pat seems to have more moves that cover large distances.

Moves like 66B, A+B, 44B, 3A and 66A cover quite a lot of range. I can't think of anything that comes to mind off the top of my head that Pyrrha has that covers that kind of range.

I don't know much about Pyrrha, so if I'm wrong someone please correct me.
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Now for the wall of text i typed a few seconds ago:

because he has safer "get in" tools than she does, and hes more effective at killing backstep(which is something sieg generally likes to do). once hes in, although pyrrha is good at locking siegfried down, pat is much better at it. she can punish siegfried better, but siegfried can also turtle against her a little better, whereas against pat its a bit harder because he has some nastier frame trap tools. not to mention siegfried has a pretty easy time zoning pyrrha out, and she has to be more patient than patroklos has to be by waiting for mistakes to get in - pat is a bit harder to space out, and though his options can be somewhat limited through spacing attempts, the tools he has available afterwards are still effective enough to pose a threat, whereas pyrrha's options are riskier, and often require her to run up closer to siegfried in general, which can give the sieg player enough time to react and counter. while its easier for pyrrha to access her mid damage options in this matchup - specifically though punishment, its also easier for pat to access his high damage options in this matchup. and its not like he cant punish siegfried either. all in all i think both are bad matchups, but once pat gets in, at least for siegfried hes just bigger trouble than pyrrha is (though if i had it my way i would rather that neither of them ever get in close)

EDIT#2:
Syn_SC said:
In a nutshell: Dylan thinks its harder to keep Pat out.

In my experience I'd reverse the two though: Pyrrha 7:3, Pat 6:4.
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wow thanks for like, making my wall of text irrelevent before i even posted it XD
 
How do you guys feel about the Sieg VS algol matchup? I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like at least a 5:5 if not slightly in sieg's favor.
 
damn-I-Suck said:
How do you guys feel about the Sieg VS algol matchup? I can't put my finger on it, but it feels like at least a 5:5 if not slightly in sieg's favor.
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Honestly I think I have only ever fought like one decent Algol so I am not sure how good my opinion would be on this. But his ability to kill backstep at any range with 4B+K would hurt Sieg's spacing a lot considering it leads to heavy damage, he hits more damage, is faster but has less range. What is Algol's best i14 or faster move, depending on how good it is will affect my opinion on the match-up a lot lolz.
 
MKHSpartan said:
Honestly I think I have only ever fought like one decent Algol so I am not sure how good my opinion would be on this. But his ability to kill backstep at any range with 4B+K would hurt Sieg's spacing a lot considering it leads to heavy damage, he hits more damage, is faster but has less range. What is Algol's best i14 or faster move, depending on how good it is will affect my opinion on the match-up a lot lolz.
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4B+K is far too risky to have a major effect in most matchups. Last ditch guessing tool.
For punishing -14 with zero pushback, Algol has 6KK, which is quite good. For -14 with pushback his best bet is 6BBB or AA.

This matchup can go either way. It depends entirely on the playstyles of each player. It's one of the more concrete examples of a 5:5 in my experience.
 
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