Siegfried Matchup Discussion Thread

ShenYuan said:
In theory, if we actually consider Risk-reward alpha vs sieg is 5-5. maxou told me that delay twister is a 100% punish for all of 3B options. But sieg can just do normal 3B and delay twister can be blocked.... and blocked twister = death.
Click to expand...
Wait, i thought 3(B) (-1) into stance cancel (-19) would recover just as fast as normal 3B (-20)?
 
3 SCH A B K loses to delay twister, because the 214 motion avoids the K and interrupts the rest. So its not an immediate twister. Its a twister that comes out later than 20 framess.... 3 g takes longer than 20 frames to recover.. its not -19... but if you did 3B its 20 frames... but you can block a properly timed delayed JFT..
 
How fast does 3(B)~G recover?
I always thought they were both -20.
I was retesting it with NM and i could punish both 3B and 3(B)~G with his B (i20) and could punish neither with his 3B (i21).
 
ShenYuan said:
Heaton: Voldo vs Sieg is in Sieg's favour... definitely. I play this MU a lot and it also worked on the japanese voldos. I talked to KT and we both agree 6-4. I spoke to Jashin in japan (IMO the best hilde with kami-chan) and he thinks its 5-5. I think so too.
Click to expand...

I haven't had the chance to play any good Voldos yet, and the only Hilde I've played was PyroZamfir's, where he pretty much destroyed me with character ignorance. It's odd fighting a character that can space as well as Siegfried can.

ShenYuan said:
I'm also slowly thinking that sieg vs asta might be in sieg's favour by a lil bit... because sieg can really negate many of his counter hit rewards.... and play outside throw range
Click to expand...

To me, that match just feels like a slugging match. Whoever hits first gets an insane amount of momentum and can usually ride that pretty easily to the end of the round.

ShenYuan said:
About the tournament... I don't do so well vs woahhzz in casuals lol... because i play sieg as a tournament character. in a first to two/three, sieg is very scary if you focus your gameplan to just take those games. He commands an incredible amount of fear. Make people feel that.
Click to expand...

This, more or less, though I have little trouble doing this in casuals, too. Unless I'm trying to learn something or am teaching someone, I play at 100%.

ShenYuan said:
GO AWAY PARTISAN
Click to expand...

Go away Partisan.
 
ShenYuan said:
In theory, if we actually consider Risk-reward alpha vs sieg is 5-5. maxou told me that delay twister is a 100% punish for all of 3B options. But sieg can just do normal 3B and delay twister can be blocked.... and blocked twister = death.

It is also very very important to understand the set play after 33B is blocked.

Heaton: Voldo vs Sieg is in Sieg's favour... definitely. I play this MU a lot and it also worked on the japanese voldos. I talked to KT and we both agree 6-4. I spoke to Jashin in japan (IMO the best hilde with kami-chan) and he thinks its 5-5. I think so too.

I'm also slowly thinking that sieg vs asta might be in sieg's favour by a lil bit... because sieg can really negate many of his counter hit rewards.... and play outside throw range

About the tournament... I don't do so well vs woahhzz in casuals lol... because i play sieg as a tournament character. in a first to two/three, sieg is very scary if you focus your gameplan to just take those games. He commands an incredible amount of fear. Make people feel that.



GO AWAY PARTISAN
Click to expand...

Actually, normal 3B/WS B doesn't allow to block delay JFT. I don't understand. Only delay SCH K beats it close range.
That's why against those kind of people you need to mix it up with step. 44B+K BE works too at correct range and beats everything. At long range (> 44B+K BE range) 236~3B works too.

I am not surprised you didn't fare so well against Woahzz, he could adapt against your mind game. Like I told you, you need to use perfect decision making to beat Alpha Patroklos with Siegfried. If he can adapt against your decision making, it's over, so you will be able to beat him in a FT2, but not if he can adapt. It's a 6-4 for Alpha at the very worst.
 
Maxou: I'd retest. i might be wrong. thanks.

Maxou and Panto: yeah i agree alpha vs sieg is hard. in practice i don't debate that. Most i can do is make it viable for first to two/three. And that's very possible than best of 10 like you said. The difficulty is waaaay easier than anything i've encountered in street fighter... thanks for your advice though. it definitely helped. Unfortunately i couldn't switch character because i felt doing that would hurt me in the tournament.

Also it isnt like Sieg cant punish alpha. he has one of the best throw punishers, in the game, and post 33B on block, sieg can control alpha because of iAGA and 22a. I really think FC2K is the main problem.

Panto: >< sorry ><

Edit: Did re-testing and these are my findings

ChaosK is right 3 and 3B are the same soooo

3 SCH K :Loses to delay JFT. beats 44B+K BE.
3 SCH G or 3B G: Loses to delay JFT 100% but the timing is really really strict for the delayed JFT.... If you delay it just a liiitle bit too much sieg can block the JFT. Maybe its my execution being lousy but i think it requires a fair amount of anticipation and concentration in a match to get the perfect timing off 100%. Usually immedaite JFT or a over-delayed JFT will come out and i can block and punish.

Damage data:
44B+K BE: 90+ ~ 100+ (1 BE) 103 (2BE)
JFT: 42~52

vs

3B BE: 78 (for JFT punish)
KBE: (1BE) to beat 44B+K BE and immediate JFt 68.

Risk reward seems slightly in my disfavour but it really is still pretty decent!

If it is a 6-4 matchup for alpha, I think it will be mainly because of your FC2K. The situation of that is too good.

Unfortunately the only Alpha i really train against is training mode (as is with 80% of the matchups i have to face. we don't even have mitsu/pyrrah players lol). I look forward to playing the other great alphas to get more practice for this matchup.

Maxou: Please clarify if you have time>< Maybe my execution is failing
 
Anyone else having trouble with Pyrrha and NM. I feel I play those match-ups awkwardly because I know that they can punish a good 80% of my tools, and then the rest of the time I'm getting stepped or spaced. I try to adapt by throwing out iagA and trying to condition them to duck/stop stepping, but it doesn't seem to help very much.

I understand I need to mind game butter, but it feels like I'm not playing them right. It seems like my flapjacks always get guarded, my SRSH gets guessed correctly, and my 3(B)'s stepped or punished. Just seeking a little guidance.
 
I like Sieg vs Nightmare it actually feels like one of his good match-ups (good for Sieg is 5-5 lol) and Pyrrha doesn't feel too bad maybe 5.5-4.5 in her favour 6-4 at worst, but as long as you make sure you 3B punish any miss-timed 236B's makes her think twice about throwing it out carelessly again. Also baseholding her AS AA second hit really hurts her step kill game a bit.
 
Does anyone has some anti ivy for me? And this has totally nothing to do with ring being at EBO
aqtaW.png
 
^HAHA!

I actually did that the other day. Made me feel like a pro, especially because I pretty much don't use 44K, I threw it out randomly, and they just happened to be trying to grab. I LOLed because it won me the round! (mine wasn't a ring out, but a KO)

Don't you dare do this against astaroth though, that A grab with catch you I think.
 
What do I do about Hilde's 22B? It seems to either duck, step, or outrange all my shit.

Also, generic anti-Hilde techniques welcome.
 
I personally really like 66B a lot in this MU. 3B and iaga get beaten by 22B because TC+TS, 66B on the other hand tracks her.
Spaced correctly she is not able to punish you for 66B, unless she has enough meter for her CE (in which case you shouldn't use it at all) or with her charged B, in which case she would have to predict your 66B before hand.

Other than that make good use of B6 and 2A at mid.
 
Sandman said:
What do I do about Hilde's 22B? It seems to either duck, step, or outrange all my shit.

Also, generic anti-Hilde techniques welcome.
Click to expand...
i personally like to throw out 1AA alot when i think she's going to start throwing out stuff like 22B. its got good range, and it will allow you to CH her out of her step TC's and kill her step for a fair amount of damage. also even if she does block the move, unless she JG's it(of course if anything of siegfried's gets JG'd, you're dead anyways, so it doesnt really matter what move you use), or unless she has a full bar of meter, she cant really punish it anyways. its great for containing her movement, and at about that range she cant really hit you with alot of her movement containment tools because she has to step in first.

at least from my experience one of your main goals for this matchup should be trying to avoid charge combos(which are most easily accessable through whiff punishment) so that she cant build loads of meter and CE you a million times in a row(siegfried can only punish her CE with b6 btw...)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom