# Siegfried Punishment List

SIEGFRIED
SBH = Siegfried's Base Hold = B+K
SCH = Siegfried's Chief Hold = 2_8B+K
SSH = Siegfried's Side Hold = 4B+K
SRSH = Siegfried's Reversed Side Hold = 8B+K
Siegfried's moves: Siegfried's punishment moves
AA: No punishment. You can duck the second A and do WR(B)​
AAB: WRK. You can duck the second A and do WR(B) or you could step the B and attack or do 9B, 9K
AA(B): Press FCK after the B but both of you will get hit (if Siegfried does SBH K). So the best thing to do is to either duck the second A and do WR(B), or step the last B and immediately attack or do 9B, 9K.
(A): iFCK after the A beats all options. 4A beats everything except B+K and 66K BE beats everything except 2B+K (2P side)
ag(A): After blocking the move you can do iagA, agA or 3K, as they beat every option. 3(B), CE, 1B beat every option, but they whiff if Siegfried goes for 2B+K (2P side)
iag(A): After blocking the move you can do iagA, agA or 3K, as they beat every option. 3(B), CE, 1B beat every option, but they whiff if Siegfried goes for 2B+K (2P side)
6A: K punishes only when your back is against the wall
6(A): 3(B), CE, 3A beat all the stance options
3A: K
3aA: K punishes only if your back is against the wall
2A: WRK
1A: WR(B)
1AA: WR(B). You can also 9B, 9K the second A
4A: K
4(A): After blocking the move you can do 3K that beats all the options the opponent Siegfried has
FCA: WRK
WRA: CE, 3(B)
WRAA: WR(B), CE. You can also do 9B, 9K, 9A after blocking the first move
WR AA2: CE, 3(B)
WR(A): Do 1K once you block the move

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BB: K. 6A punishes only when your back is against the wall​
BBA: WR(B). You can also interrupt the A with 3(B), or jump + attack, or enter SBH to get the aGI​
BB(A): No punishment. However you can interrupt the A with 3(B), or jump + attack, or enter SBH to get the aGI. This move is extremely safe on guard (+10)
BBA4: You can do 3(B), iagA, CE, etc to interrput Siegfried's stance options​
BBK: No punishment. However you can duck the K and do WR(B)​
(B): Press 1K to interrupt the stance transition​
6B: 3(B)​
3B: 3(B), CE, 3A​
2(B): Press 1K to interrupt the stance transition options​
1B: b6, agA​
236B: Step and attack or interrupt​
FC(B): Press 1K after blocking the move to interrupt the stance transition options​
WRB: 3(B), CE, 3A​
BT BB: WR(B). You can also do 9B after the first hit​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3KK: WR(B), CE. You can also do 9B after the first K
3KKB: b6, agA. You can also do 9B after the first K attack
2K: WR(B)
2KK_2KKK_2KKKK_2KKKKK: If you block the first hit, the version you'll get will be the same as above
1K: WRK
4KK: K. You can also duck the last K and do WR(B)
FCK: WRK
WRK: K
BT 2K: WRK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A+B: The best thing to do is iFC K as it beats every stance option. After that is 3(B) but it whiffs when Siegfried goes for a 2B+K (2P side) or a stance cancel and 6A that beats all options unless he goes into SBH
A+B A: WRK. You can interrupt the last attack with 3(B), 4A, etc, or enter SBH after blocking the second hit for an aGI
2A+B: WR(B)
2(A+B): You can press FCK after blocking the low hit but you'll both clash and get hit if Siegfried goes for SBH K, but it beats all the other stance options

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

44_11_77(A): After blocking this move do 3K as it interrupts and beats all of Siegfried's options. 3(B) beats everything except 2B+K (2P) as it whiffs
66B: WR(B), CE
33_99B: 3(B), CE
22_88 B: WRK
22_88BB: WR(B)
22_88BB4: WRK beats every option
11_77B: 3(B), CE, 3A
11_77(B): Press K after blocking the first move to interrupt any stance transition option
44B: WR(B)
44BG: Interrupt it
44BB: 3(B), CE, 3A. You can also step the last B and attack or simply interrupt it by doing WR(B) after blocking the first B
44B(B): Do 3(B), CE, 3A after blocking the second B to interrupt the stance transition options. You can also step the last B and attack or simply interrupting it by doing WR(B) after blocking the first B
22_88 KA: No punishment. However you can duck the A and do WR(B), or do 66A immediately after the K to activate the aGI
22_88KAA: No punishment. However you can duck either the first or second A and do WR(B), or do 66A before one of the As come out to activate the aGI
22_88 KAAB: WR(B), CE. You can also duck any A and do WR(B), but be careful with the timing or you'll both get hit. You can also step the B part and attack. (If you step to the up side (88) and do 88BB, Siegfried will track and hit you. If you want to avoid this but still use this move, wait for him to whiff and then attack)
22_88KA2A: No punishment. However you can duck the first A and do WR(B). Also you can enter SBH stance after the first A to get the aGI
22_88KA2AA: WR(B), CE. You can also duck the first A and do WR(B), or enter the SBH stance after the first A to activate the aGI. Also you can interrupt the last A with WRK after the second A
22_88K(A): Keep guarding after the stance transition as you won't be able to interupt the fastest options. However you can duck the A and do WR(B)
22_88KA(A): iFC K interrupts all of the stance options. 3(B) would do that too if it didn't whiff against 2B+K (2P side). You can also duck any of the As and do WR(B)
22_88KK: 6A, 66K BE
22_88kAA: No punishment. However you can duck the last A and do WR(B)
22_88kAAB: WR(B), CE. You can also duck the second A and do WR(B). Or you can step the B attack and attack from step (don't use 88BB)
22_88 kA2A: No punishment. You can enter SBH after blocking the first move to activate the aGI
22_88kA2AA: WR(B), CE. You can also enter SBH after blocking the first move to activate the aGI. You can also interrupt the last A with WRK after the second A
22_88k(A): Press K after blocking the first move to interrupt the stance transition
22_88kA(A): Do iFC K after blocking the second A to interrupt every stance transition option. 3(B) would do the same if it didn't whiff when the opponent would go for 2B+K (2P side). You can also duck the second A and do WR(B). 3(B) works too as the TC frames cover you
22_88ka2A: WRK
22_88ka2AA: WR(B), CE. You can also interrupt the second A with WRK
22_88Ka2A: WRK. After blocking the K you can get into SBH to activate the aGI
22_88Ka2AA: WR(B), CE. You can also enter SBH after blocking the K to activate the aGI. You can also interrupt the second A with WRK
44K: 1K
66A+B: FCK
RUN K: WR(B), CE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

66k BE: 3(B)
SBH k BE: K
SCH k BE: No punishment. However you can step the second hit (22) and attack from step with 223(B), 22A, 22K...etc. Don't use 22BB as it is slow and Siegfried will block it. This move is extremely safe on guard (+10)
CE: 3B/WR(B), CE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SBH A: CE, 3(B)
SBH K: K

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SCH A: No punishment. You can enter SBH after blocking the first attack to activate the aGI. 66A after the first attack works too
SCH (A): Press 1K, K after blocking the first move to interrupt the stance transition options
SCH KK: K. You can also duck the second K and do WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SSH A: WR(B)
SSH AA: WR(B). You can also interrupt the second A with WRK
SSH (A): WR(B), CE interrupt all of the stance transition options
SSH B: 3(B)
SSH BB: WR(B). You can also step the second B and attack
SSH BBB: 3(B) works only when your back is against the wall. However you can step the second B and attack from steo
SSH BB(B): 3(B), CE work effectively in every stance option when your back is against the wall. You can also step the second B and attack from step
SSH K: K

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SRSH B: 3(B), CE
SRSH K: WR(B), CE
SRSH (K): WR(B), CE interrupt any of the stance transition options

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
A
agA: This move is very safe on guard (+2)
iagA: This move is very safe on guard (+2)
7_8_9 A
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B
b6
b4: This move is extremely safe on guard (+10)
3(B): Keep guarding​
2B
4B
FCB
WR(B): Keep guarding​
7_8_9 B
BT B
BT 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
6K
3K
4K
7_8_9K
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66A: This move is extremely safe on guard (+11)
22_88A
44_11_77A: This move is very safe on guard (+2)
33_99(B): Keep guarding even after the transition unless you want to risk being hit by SCH K​
44(B): Keep guarding​
66_33_99K
22_88K
22_88kA
11_77K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66k (BE): Keep guarding, unless you want to risk getting hit by SCH K​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SBH A2
SBH B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SCH B: This move is very safe on guard (+2)
SCH K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SRSH A

TIRA

JS = Jolly Side
GS = Gloomy Side
Tira's moves: Siegfried's punishment moves

MOVES ACCESSIBLE FROM BOTH STANCES
1A: WRK (Warning: Punishing it may not work every time, as you must be close to Tira and be in time with your input)
7A: b6, agA
8A: 6A
9A: K

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

WRB: b6, agA
WRK: Interrupt the stance transition with 1K or run away from Tira after blocking K
7_8_9 B: b6

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2K: WRK
236 K: WR(B), CE
FCK: WRK
BT 2K: WRK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(A+B): No punishment. If she whiffs, punish with 3(B)
6A+B: Quickstep (22) and attack or interrupt immediately
4B+K: b6, agA
4B+K B: No punishment. Step the B move and attack or do your backthrow
BT A+B: Interrupt it fast
BT (A+B): Interrupt it

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

UD A: K
UD K: 3(B) (close), WR(B) (tip)

JOLLY SIDE
JS 6AB: WR(B). You can also do 9B after the A attack or step and attack
JS 2A: WR(B)
JS 2AB: 3(B), CE
JS 2AB A+B: Do iagA, 6A, 3A, 66A, 22_88A after the B attack
JS 2AB (A+B): Do iagA, 6A, 3A, 66A, 22_88A after the B attack
JS 4A: K

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JS 4B: 3B

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JS 1K: WR(B), CE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JS BT B+K: b6, agA
JS BT B+K B: WR(B). Or you can step the B attack and attack
JS BT B+K B A+B: 3(B) after she hits her head. You can alsostep the second move and attack. Or you could interrupt the last attack with WRK, 1K, 2A, 2B, as anything else can be GI-ed

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JS 66_33_99 A: 3(B), CE, 3A
JS 66_33_99 AA: 3(B), CE, 3A
JS 44_11_77A: b6, agA
JS 44_11_77AA: 6A, 66K BE. You can also enter the SBH stance after the A to activate the aGI
JS 44_11_77A2A: WRK. You can also enter the SBH stance after the A to activate the aGI
JS 11_77B: WRK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JS CE: 3B, CE. 3A doesn't punish

GLOOMY SIDE
GS 3A: K
GS 3AA: No punishment. You can duck the last of the three hits and do WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GS 3B: K
GS 4B: B: WRK. You can also step and attack. Be careful as if you step to the up side (88) Tira's move tracks you if you attack immediately. To prevent that you can attack right after her move
GS 4B: B: B: iagA, b6, agA. You can also step the second B and attack. Be careful though as 22_88BB whiffs both sides. Also if you step to the up side (88) Tira will track you if you attack immediately. So wait for that move to whiff and then attack

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GS 1K: WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GS 33_99B: K

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

GS 3Aa BE: No punishment. However the third and rest hits are highs so you can duck then and do WR(B)
GS CE: 3B, CE. 3A doesn't punish

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
MOVES ACCESSIBLE FROM BOTH STANCES
FCA
WRA
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC B
BT B
BT 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
7_8_9K
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A+B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
22_88 K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
236 k BE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
UD B: This move is very safe on guard (+2)

JOLLY SIDE
JS A
JS AA
JS 6A
JS 3A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JS B
JS BB
JS 6B
JS 3B
JS 2B
JS 1B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JS 3K
JS 4K
JS WRK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JS B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JS 22_88A
JS 66_33_99 B
JS 22_88B
JS 44B
JS 66_33_99K
JS 44_11_77K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JS 66_33_99 b BE
GLOOMY SIDE
GS A
GS AA
GS 6A
GS 2A
GS 4A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GS B
GS BB
GS 6B
GS 2B
GS 1B
GS 4B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GS 6K
GS 3K
GS 4K
GS WRK
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GS 2A+B
GS B+K
GS BT B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GS 22_88 A
GS 66_33_99A: This move is very safe on guard (+3)
GS 44_11_77A
GS 66B
GS 666B
GS 22_88: This move is very safe on guard (+3)
GS 44_11_77B
GS 44_11_77(B)
GS 66_33_99K
GS 44_11_77K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GS 66 b BE: This move is very safe on guard (+6)
GS 666 b BE: This move is very safe on guard (+6)

VIOLA

ORB = Orb held by Viola
SET = Orb set in the field
Viola's moves: Siegfried's punishment moves
MOVES ACCESSIBLE FROM BOTH STANCES
6AA: WR(B). You can also 9B after the first hit​
6AB: No punishment. You can duck the B and do WR(B) fast​
1A: WR(B), CE​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1B: 3(B), CE. 3A doesn't work​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2K: WRK​
1K: WR(B)​
BT 2K: WRK​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

4B+K: This move is extremely safe on block (+8) if the GI is activated
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66AA: No punishment. You can duck the second A and quickly do WR(B), or do 66A right after the first attack​
66AAB: No punishment. You can duck the second A and quickly do WR(B), or do 66A right after the first attack. You can also duck the last part and and do WR(B) once you see Siegfried turning around​
44_11_77 B: K​
33_99 K: K​
22_88 K: K​
44_11_77 K: WRK​
RUN K: WR(B), CE​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66 k BE: No punishment. Sidestep the ball and attack​
66 k BE: No punishment. Sidestep the ball and attack. This move is ridiculously safe on guard (+35)
ORB MOVES
ORB AAB: 3B​
ORB 4A: K​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ORB 3B: K punishes only if your back is against the wall​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

ORB A+B A: 1K, K​
ORB 6A+B: 3(B), CE​
ORB 1A+B: WR(B), CE​
ORB 8A+B: 3(B), 3A, CE​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ORB 33_99A: K punishes only when your back's against the wall​
ORB 22_88AB: K​
ORB 44_11_77 A: 3(B), CE​
ORB 44_11_77 AB: WRK​
ORB 22_88 KB: 3(B), CE​
ORB 66 A+B B: WR(B)​
ORB 44A+B: Sidestep and attack or interrupt​
SET MOVES
SET AAB: No punishment. However you can duck or step the B to avoid guard crush pressure. This move is very safe on guard (+5)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET BBB: No punishment. You can duck or step only the last attack​
SET 3B: K​
SET 7_8_9 B: WR(B)​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SET A+B A: 1K, K​
SET A+B AB: No punishment. You can duck the ball only. This move is very safe on guard (+4)
SET 2A+B: WR(B) ,CE​
SET 1A+B: WR(B), CE​
SET 8A+B: WRK works only when your back is against the wall. You can also step the second hit and whiffpunish​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET 33_99A: WR(B)​
SET 22_88AB: 1K. Or you could step without attacking​
SET 44_11_77 A: 3(B), CE​
SET 44_11_77 AB: 3(B), CE​
SET 22_88 KB: 3B, CE, or you could sidestep the orb without attacking​
SET 66 A+B: 6B​
SET 66 A+B B: 3(B), iagA, b6​
SET 44A+B: Sidestep and attack or interrupt​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET 44 a BE: No punishment. You can sidestep the orb attacks (22) without attacking​
SET 22_88 b BE: No punishment. You can sidestep the last orb attack without attacking​

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
MOVES ACCESSIBLE FROM BOTH STANCES
A
AA
6A
3A
2A
FC A
WR A
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B
BB
6B
4B
WRB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
6K
3K
4K
WRK
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BT B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66A
22_88A
66B
33B
22_88B
66K
66(K)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CE
ORB MOVES
ORB 7_8_9 A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ORB BBB
ORB 2B
ORB 7_8_9 B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ORB 7_8_9 K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ORB A+B
ORB 2A+B: This move is extremely safe on guard (+9)
ORB 4A+B
ORB B+K
ORB 6B+K
ORB 2B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
ORB 66A+B
ORB 22_88 A+B
SET MOVES
SET 4A
SET 7_8_9 A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET 7_8_9 K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET A+B
SET 6A+B
SET 2(A+B): This move is ridiculously safe on guard (+31)
SET 4A+B
SET 8A+B
SET B+K
SET 6B+K
SET 2B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET 22_88 A+B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SET a+b BE
SET b+k BE
SET 2b+k BE

VOLDO

BS = Blindstance (Backturned)
CR = Caliostro Rush = 236 or 4(A+K)
BCR = Blind Caliostro Rush = BS 236 or CR B+K
MCFT = Mantis Crawl Feet Towards = 2B+K or 4(A+K)
MCHT = Mantis Crawl Head Towards = BS 2B+K or BS 4(A+K)
LF = Land Fish (Deathroll) = MC 2_8 or 2_8(A+K)
Voldo's moves: Siegfried's punishment moves
NEUTRAL STANCE
6ABA: K​
3A: b6, agA​
WRA: K​
WRAA: b6, agA​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3BB: K punishes only when your back is against the wall​
2BB: No punishment. However you can step the second B and attack​
1B: b6, 1K​
1(B): b6, 1K​
4BA: No punisment. You can duck the A and do WR(B)​
4BAA: No punishment. You can duck any A and do WR(B)​
FC3B: b6, agA​
WRB: K works only when your back is against the wall.​
WRBB: 6A, 66 K BE work only when your back is against the wall. You can also step the second B (22) and attack​
WR(B): 3(B) interrupts every stance option​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

6(K): 3B interrupts all the options​
7_8_9K: 3(B)​
7_8_9KG: 3(B) interrupts all the stance options​
FCK: WRK​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A+B: 6A works only when your back is against the wall​
A+B (3): 1K interrupts any stance option​
6A+B: K​
6(A+B): K​
6(A+B)G (First or second hit): K​
2A+B: WR(B) (SBH can aGI this move)​
4A+B: Step (88) and attack or interrupt immediately​
B+K: b6, agA​
(B+K): You could step the second attack and immediately do 1K, but the timing is very strict​
FC3(A+B): Enter FC, or step and attack, or interrupt​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

66A: K
11_77K: WR(B)
44K: 1K
66A+B: 3B
66(A+B): 3B
66A+B K: No punishment. You can duck the K and do WR(B). This move is neutral on block
44A+B: b6, agA work only when your back is against the wall
RUN K: WR(B), CE

BLINDSTANCE
BS 2B: b6
BS 8B: WRK
BS 8BK: CE, 1K. You can also do WR(B) after blocking the low B attack

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BS 2K: WRK
BS 8K: 6A, 66 K BE
BS 8KA: No punishment. Interrupt the A with 6A after blocking the K. This move is very safe on guard (+10)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BS A+B: b6
BS 2A+B: 3(B), CE
BS 4A+B: Interrupt or step (88) and attack

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

BS 8WR B: K. 6A works only if your back is against the wall
BS 8WR BK: 3(B). You can interrupt the last K with K after blocking B. You can also step the K and attack
BS 8WR K: K works only if your back is against the wall

SUPERS AND STANCES
6b BE: No punishment. However you can step the last hit (22) and attack from step (22BB whiffs). This move is extremely safe on guard (+10)
66_33_99b BE: No punishment. However you can step (88) the second hit and attack from step. This move is extremely safe on guard (+10)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCFT B: WR(B), CE
MCFT A+B: 3B once you see Voldo rolling away
MCFT B+K: 3(B)
MCFT 66: Stepping is very dangerous, so interrupt Voldo once you see him coming to you with that move

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MCHT A: K works only when your back is against the wall
MCHT B: 3(B), CE
MCHT A+B: b6
MCHT B+K: 3(B)
MCHT (B+K): 3(B)
MCHT 66: WRK, WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CR A: K
CR AA: b6, agA
CR B: K works when your back is against the wall
CR BB: 6A, 66 K BE work when your back is against the wall. You can also step (22) the second attack and attack from step
CR(B): 1K interrupts all options
CR A+B: WR(B), CE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

LF A: WR(B), CE
LF K: WR(B) works when Voldo's close to a wall. If Voldo does this move from BS, punish with 1K
LF A+B: Interrupt or step and attack

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
NEUTRAL STANCE
A
AA
aB
aBB
aBBB
6A
6AB
2A
1A
4A
7_8_9A
FC A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B
BB
6B
3B
2B
4B
7_8_9 B
FCB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
6K
3K
2K
1K
1(K)
4K
WRK
WR(K)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC3A+B: This move is very safe on guard (+4)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
33_99A
22_88A
44_11_77A
66_33_99B
22_88B
44_11_77B
666B
66_33_99K
22_88K
BLINDSTANCE
BS A
BS 6A
BS 6AB
BS 6ABB
BS 4A
BS 7_8_9 A
BS FCA
BS WRA
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BS B
BS 6B
BS 6BB
BS 6B6B
BS 4B
BS WRB
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BS K
BS 6K
BS 4K
BS WRK: This move is neutral on block
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BS B+K
BS 2B+K: Keep guarding​
BS A+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BS 8WR A: This move is neutral on block
SUPERS AND STANCES
LF b BE: This move is extremely safe on guard (+14)
CE: Keep guarding​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MCFT A: This move is very safe on guard (+2)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
MCHT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CR K
CR (K)
CR (1)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
LF (A): This move is extremely safe on guard (+12)
LF B
LF B+K

XIBA
REM = Remembrance = B+K
Xiba's moves: Siegfried's punishment moves
AA: No punishment, However you can duck the second A and do WR(B)​
AAK: b6, agA. You can also duck the second A and do WR(B)​
6AK: No punishment. You can step the kick (88) and do a move from step. However that is risky as the kick sometimes tracks​
3AB: No punishment. You can duck the B however and do WR(B)​
3A(B): If you are quick enough you can do 3(B), 66K BE, etc. However Xiba is most likely to attack from stance. In that case you can interrupt any option with 3(B), 1K, etc​
1A: WR(B)​
4A: K​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BB: No punishment. However you can step the second B and attack from step​
B(B): You can attack with 3(B),etc, but Xiba is most likely going to attack from stance. In that case 3(B), 1K, etc can interrupt his options​
6BK: No punishment. Use 1K before K hits to interrupt him​
3BK: No punishment. You can duck the K and do WR(B)​
3BKK: It works only if the first K hits. So if you block it, the version you'll get will be the above one.​
3(B): If Xiba doesn't do a stance attack you can attack with 3(B). However it'd be better to block since Xiba is most likely to do a stance attack that you won't be able to interrupt​
1B: WRK​
4B: K would punish if the range was enough​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3K: 6A​
3kB: 3(B)​
2K: WRK​
FC K: WRK​
WRK: K​
WRK:K : If the first move is blocked, the rest of the string won't happen. So the move will actually be WRK, which can be punished with K​
7_8K: b6, agA​
9K: K​
BT 2K: WRK​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A+B: K​
A+B B: 3(B), CE​
A+B B K: No punishment. You can interrupt the last hit with K​
3A+B: WR(B). (Breaks with A)​
2A+B: WRK​
1A+B: WR(B). (Breaks with B)​
WD (while down) A+B: WR(B), CE. You can also go into SBH and activate the aGI, before you get hit, if you are quick.​
2(B+K): 1K or FCK when you see him lying down.​
4(B+K): Try interrupting with 3(B) or K​
BT B+K: b6, agA​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
33_99 A: WR(B), CE​
33_99 AA: WR(B), CE​
22_88 A: K​
22_88 AB: K​
22_88 A(B): You can interrupt with 3(B), or 1K​
44_11_77 AA: No punishment. You can SBH aGI the second A hit​
66_33_99 B: K. You can punish with 6A, 4KK, if your back is against the wall.​
66_33_99BBB: iagA, b6, agA. You can sidestep the third hit (22) and do a move from step​
22_88B: b6, iagA​
11_77 B: WRK​
66K: K​
66KB: b6, agA. You can also sidestep (22) after the first hit and attack​
66K(B): No punishment. However you can sidestep after the first hit and attack. This move is very safe on guard (+2)
22_88K: WR(B)​
44B+K: Step and attack​
RUN K: WR(B)​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6A k BE: No punishment. Sidestep after the first move and attack when the third one comes out. However that is risky as sometimes the kick tracks​
WRk BE: K. If you block it the BE won't come out.​
WRK:k BE: K. If you block the first hit the rest of the move won't come out. So it's the same situation as above​
A+B B k BE: No punishment. Punish with K before K comes out​
33Aa BE: WR(B)​
CE: CE, 3B​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REM A: b6, agA​
REM AK: b6, agA​
REM K: WR(B)​
Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
A
6A
3A
2A
FC A
WRA
7_8_9 A
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B
6B
3B
2B
FC B
FC 1B
WR B
7_8_9: Neutral on block
BT B
BT 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
kB
6K
1K
4K
4kB
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FC A+B
6B+K
2B+K
4B+K: It's very safe on block (+1)
BT (B+K): This move is very safe on block (+2)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66A
44_11_77A
66_33_99 BB
44B
33_99K
33_99KB
44_11_77K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6B k BE
44_11_77 k BE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
REM B

YOSHIMITSU

DGF = Manji Dragonfly = 8B+K
FLE = Flea = B+K or BT B+K
IFP = Iron Fist Possession = 4A+K
IND = Indian Stance = 2_FC_BT 2_FUFT_FUFA B+K
SDF = Super Dragonfly = DGF 8B+K
Yoshimitsu's moves: Siegfried's punishment moves
6(A) and 6(A)6: If you notice that your opponent may go for those moves immediately do 1K​
3A: K​
3AB: b6, agA​
1AAAAA: 3(B), CE​
1A: A: A: A: A: I couldn't test it​
4AAAAA: 3B, CE​
4A: A: A: A: A: I couldn't test it​
214A: WR(B)​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3B: K​
1B: b6, agA​
1(B): Step and attack once Yoshimitsu whiffs, or immediately interrupt​
236B: Run under him or step and attack​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

6K: 3(B), CE​
6KK: b6, agA. You can also interrupt the last K with iagA, b6, etc, or step and interrupt (watch out for the 88 side - wait for him to whiff in order to attack without getting hit by Yoshimitsu)​
2K: WRK​
4KB: No punishment. However you can step the B (88) and attack​
4K(B): After blocking the K, interrupt immeditely or step and attack after he whiffs​
FC K: WRK​
FC 3K: WR(B), CE​
FC 1K_1KK_1KKK_1KKKK_1KKKKK: WR(B), CE​
FC 1K: K: K: K: K: I couldn't test it​
BT 2K: WRK​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

8A+B: Run under him and backthrow him​
8A+B2 ~ G: Run under him and backthrow him​
8A+B4: The best thing is to keep sidestepping and attack with 22_88 B once he lands and whiffs, if he is close to you​
8A+B B+K: Interrupt with K once he comes lower. But the best thing to do is to guard​
BT (A+B): Interrupt​
6B+K: 3(B)​
6B+K B: b6, agA. You can also duck the second attack and do WR(B)​
6B+K BB: K. You can also duck the second and third attack and do WR(B)​
6B+K BBB: No punishment. You can duck the second and thirst attack and do WR(B) before the last hit. Also you can step the last hit (22) and attack​
9B+K: K​
9B+K K: K. You can also run under him during the second jump and backthrow him or enter BT SCH and do BT SCH B ~ iagA_CE​
9B+K K4: 3(B). You can also run under him during the second jump and backthrow him or do BT SCH B~iagA_CE​
9B+K (K): 3(B). If you run under him but he ends up in DGF do BT K​

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

22_88A: WRK​
33_99B B+K: iagA, b6​
33_99B B+K A+B: 1B, CE, 3(B). The third attack is steppable too but you won't be able to whiffpunish with anything except your CE​
33_99B B+K A+B K: 3(B). The third attack is steppable too but you won't be able to whiffpunish with anything except your CE​
33_99B B+K (A+B): The third attack is steppable but not punishable. As for the last hit, try to stay away from him or interrupt him​
33_99B B+K (A+B) B+K: K can punish any stance option. The third attack is steppable but not punishable. After the third attack, though, you can step and do 22_88BB to interrupt him​
33_99B (B+K): Backthrow or iagA, b6​
33_99B (B+K) A+B: After blocking the (B+K) part do 3B​
33_99 B (B+K) A+B K: After blocking the (B+K) part do 3B​
33_99B (B+K) (A+B): After blocking the (B+K) part do 3B​
33_99B (B+K) (A+B) 4_2_G: After blocking the (B+K) part do 3B​
33_99B (B+K) (A+B) B+K: BT K can punish the stance options but you'll be far away for that. After blocking the (B+K) part do 3B​
33_99b B+K: iagA, b6​
33_99b B+K A+B: 1B, CE, 3(B). The second attack is steppable too but you won't be able to whiffpunish with anything except your CE​
33_99b B+K A+B K: 3(B). The second attack is steppable too but you won't be able to whiffpunish with anything except your CE​
33_99b B+K (A+B): You can step the second attack but you wont be able to punish. After it you can step and do 22_88BB to interrupt him. As for the last hit, interrupt him or try to stay away from him​
33_99b B+K (A+B) B+K: K can punish any stance option. You can step the second attack but you wont be able to punish. After it you can step and do 22_88BB to interrupt him.​
33_99b (B+K): Backthrow or iagA, b6​
33_99b (B+K) A+B: After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99 b (B+K) A+B K: After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99b (B+K) (A+B): After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99b (B+K) (A+B) 4_2_G: After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99b (B+K) (A+B) B+K: BT K could punish the stance options but you'll be far away for that. After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99B+K: iagA, b6​
33_99B+K A+B: 1B, CE, 3(B). The second attack is steppable too but you won't be able to whiffpunish with anything except your CE​
33_99B+K A+B K: 3(B). The second attack is steppable too but you won't be able to whiffpunish with anything except your CE​
33_99B+K (A+B): You can step the second attack but you wont be able to punish. After it you can step and do 22_88BB to interrupt him. As for the last hit, interrupt him or try to stay away from him​
33_99B+K (A+B) B+K: K can punish any stance option. You can step the second attack but you wont be able to punish. After it you can step and do 22_88BB to interrupt him.​
33_99(B+K): Backthrow or iagA, b6​
33_99(B+K) A+B: After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99(B+K) A+B K: After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99(B+K) (A+B): After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99(B+K) (A+B) 4_2_G: After blocking the first move do 3B​
33_99(B+K) (A+B) B+K: BT K could punish the stance options but you'll be far away for that. After blocking the first move do 3B​
22_88B: K punishes only when your back is against the wall​
11_77B: b6​
44B: Step and attack or interrupt​
44_11_77KB: No punishment. However you can step the B attack (88) and attack from step​
44_11_77K(B): Step and attack or interrupt the (B)​
66_33_99_22_88 a+b 2B: WR(B), CE​
RUN K: WR(B), CE​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3Ab BE: K. You can step the last hit and attack​
66_33_99 aBE: No punishment. However you can step the second hit and attack​
CE: WR(B), CE​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FLE A: WR(B)​
FLE K: 3(B) interrupts all stance options​
FLE (K): 1K, CE​
FLE 66: WR(B), CE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IND A: WR(B), CE
IND 6_4 A+B: You can do 3(B) after he says 'Forgive me'
IND 6_4 A+B K: WR(B), CE

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

DGF K: WR(B), CE
DGF A+B: 3B interrupts any option after blocking this move

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SDF KK: WR(B), CE
SDF K: K: Couldn't test

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IFP: (Random effects) - Couldn't test

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
A
AA
a:B+K
6A
2A
2aB
1A_1AA_1AAA_1AAAA: These moves would be punished with K if Yoshimitsu wasn't TC-ing​
4A_4AA_4AAA_4AAAA
FC A
FC 2aB
7_8_9 A
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B
BB
bA
6B
2B
4B
FCB
WRB
7_8_9B
BT B
BT 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
3K
1K
4K
WRK
7_8_9K
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A+B: This move is extremely safe on guard (+15)
(A+B): This move is extremely safe on guard (+15)
(A+B) K: This move is very safe on guard (+2)
2A+B
2A+B B
2(A+B): Better keep guarding as you won't be able to interrupt all the stance options with one move​
BT A+B: This move is extremely safe on block (+15)
BT (A+B) K: This move is very safe on block (+2)
3B+K
1B+K
4B+K_4B+K B_4B+K BB_4B+K BBB_4B+K BBBB_4B+K BBBBB_4B+K BBBBBB
A+K
2A+K_2A+K A_2A+K AA_2A+K AAA_2A+K AAAA_2A+K AAAA: A_2A+K A+K
BT 2A+K_BT 2A+K A_BT 2A+K AA_BT 2A+K AAA_BT 2A+K AAAA_BT 2A+K AAAA: A_BT 2A+K A+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66_33_99A
44_11_77A
66B
33_99B
44bA
44bB
66_33_99K
22_88K: This move is neutral on block
44_11_77K
66_33_99_22_88 A+B
66_33_99_22_88 a+b B+K
66_33_99_22_88 a+b 2B+K
66_33_99_22_88 a+b G
66_33_99_22_88 B+K
66_33_99_22_88 b+k B+K
66_33_99_22_88 b+k 2B+K
66_33_99_22_88 b+k G
66A+K
66(A+K)_66(A+K) A_66(A+K) AA_66(A+K) AAA_66(A+K) AAAA_66(A+K) AAA:A_66(A+K) A+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
6b BE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
FLE B
FLE (B): This move is neutral on block
FLE A+B: Keep blocking​
FLE (A+B): Keep blocking​
FLE 4_6 A+B: Keep blocking​
FLE 4_6 (A+B): Keep blocking​
FLE 2A+B
FLE B+K
FLE 2_8B+K
FLE 6_4_2_8
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
IND B: This move is extremely safe on guard (+8)
IND K
IND A+K_IND (A+K)_IND A+K A_IND A+K A A+B_IND A+K A A+K_ IND A+K A+B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DGF A: This move is extremely safe on guard (+8)
DGF B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
SDF A
SDF B
SDF K
SDF B+K
SDF 2B+K
SDF A+K

Z.W.E.I.
KF = Knife Fiend = 214
Z.W.E.I.'s moves: Siegfried's punishment moves
(A): No punishment. You can duck EIN and do WR(B) real fast, or FC K. This move is safe (+1 on guard).
6A: K punishes only if your back is against the wall, otherwise it whiffs​
3A: iagA, b6​
3AA: No punishment. However you can either duck the second A and do WR(B), or simply attack with 3(B) right after the first A; the TC frames cover you in this situation so the second A won't hit you​
1A: WR(B), CE​
4A: b6, agA​
4(A): No punishment. You can interrupt EIN before he comes with 3(B). This move is extremely safe (+8 on GRD)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(B): No punishment. You can step EIN to protect your guard gauge, but without attacking or you'll get blocked. This move is very safe (+2 on GRD)
3B: b6, agA
1B: K
1(B): No punishment. You can duck EIN and do WR(B) real fast, or FC K. This move is very safe on guard (+2)
1(B)K: No punishment. You can duck EIN and do WR(B) in every situation
4B: K

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2K: WRK
1K: b6, agA
4K: 3(B)
4KB: b6, agA
FC K: WRK
BT 2K: WRK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A+B: b6, agA
4A+B: 1B, CE, 3(B)
4(A+B): CE, WR(B)
BT A+B: 3B
6B+K: No punishment. You can step EIN in order to avoid guard gauge presure. This move is safe on block (+2)
6B+K A: No punishment. You can duck the A part and do WR(B) before EIN attacks. This move is extremely safe on block (+10)
6B+K B: No punishment. You can step EIN in order to avoid extra guard gauge damage. This move is extremely safe (+9 on GRD)
6(B+K): No punishment. You can step EIN, but watch out for Z.W.E.I. as well​
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

22_88 A: iagA, b6, agA
44_11_77 A: WR(B)
66BA: No punishment. You can duck the A and do WR(B)
33_99 B: K
22_88 B: b6, agA
22_88BB: 6A. You can step the second hit (88) and attack with 88A or 88BB4 ~ SCH B_SCH K BE ~ iagA
44_11_77 (B): No punishment. You should try to interrupt or step this move before is about to hit you as the GB will leave you open for the second attack​
11_77K: WR(B)
66(A+B): 3(B) after Z.W.E.I. attacks. However that is risky as EIN's delay is controllable
66B+K: 1B, CE, 3(B)
44B+K: Step and attack
RUN K: WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

3a BE: WR(B). You can also step (88) the second attack and do 88A or 88BB
1k BE: No punishment. You can only step EIN just to protect you guard gauge. This move is extremelly safe on guard (+10)
b+k BE: No punishment. You can step EIN​
(b+k) BE: No punishment. You can step EIN​
66_33_99 a BE: No punishment. You can step EIN​
66_33_99 (a) BE: No punishment. You can step EIN​
33_99 b BE: No punishment. You can step EIN​
CE: CE, 33(B), 3B, 66B, 6B

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(B+G): Roll away

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

KF A: K

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
A
AA
2A
FC A
WRA
7_8_9A
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
B
BB
6B
2B
FC B
WR B
7_8_9 B
BT B
BT 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
K
6K
3K
WR K
7_8_9 K
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
8A+B
B+K
6(B+K) A
BT B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66_33_99 A
66B
66_33_99K
22_88K
44_11_77 B: This move is extremely safe on guard (+12)
44 K
66A+B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
4b BE
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KF B: This move is very safe on guard (+4)

Looks good but maybe just list the moves that can be punished, for shorter lists?

That could work sweetly, I only put them because I thought someone would want to see the whole thing. (How about just leaving them in spoiler tags?). Also there are strings that if they are blocked they can not be punished but they can be interrupted, stepped, or JG-ed. I'll include those in the lists.

I cannot punish Tira 1A with Siegfried WR K. What gives?

Are you sure? I just had my sister test it for me (I dont have a PS3 here) and it worked. The timing is quite strict though.
I told her what to do via skype vid, so I believe Tira would guard immediately after doing the move. However we didnt check if this was mood dependant, but the wiki states 1A in both moods as -14 on GRD, so it should work.

Are you sure? I just had my sister test it for me (I dont have a PS3 here) and it worked. The timing is quite strict though.
I told her what to do via skype vid, so I believe Tira would guard immediately after doing the move. However we didnt check if this was mood dependant, but the wiki states 1A in both moods as -14 on GRD, so it should work.

Retested. At point blank I can usually get it if I time it correctly. Any farther out and it just doesn't connect in time. Same thing with trying to punish with FC K.

Fucking range dependent values.

Since when is this topic *COMPLETED* ?
Amazing work. Really impressing.

About Tira's 1A : WSK is really inconsistant (and the range not easy to check at all). Since WSK is unsafe, I'm not trying to punish this move anymore. WRB/FCA_B+G.

It was completed in late November irc and with this title I mean that every character has their chart. Changes can be made anytime and errors can be fixed.
And thank you!!! =^_^=
As for Tira's 1A, I'll just add that it is range dependant and quite tricky to do because of the frames too.
I actually found hard punishing some lows that were -14 with WRK and had the same problems as Tira, but put those here anyway

If I read correctly, you put Damp's 33_99B BE as 3B punishable, they can actually guard (making it 0~-1 on block) so it's technically safe, I think it was the taunt followup that deceived you!

Good work.

AZ

Really nice 11thD. tho I'm no longer into "in depth" SC5, I'm impressed ;)

I worked and dit some test about Patroklos to help.
In red my corrections feel free to pick what you want.
On my point of view 6A is more interesting than B6 to punish move with pushback. Faster, better frame advantage for same damage.
About normal i16 agA, are some people able to do this ? even in training mode ? lol.
3A or iagA are also interesting when 3B can't launch or when you don't have meter.

PATROKLOS
JS = Justice Step = 236
Patroklos' moves: Siegfried's punishment moves

1A: WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

6BB: K. The last B is a high so you could duck it and do WR (B). 3(B) ils also working to TC the second hit.
6BBB: b6, agA. You can duck the second B and interrupt with WR(B) or WRK, or you can duck the second B, then step (22) the last B and do 3(B) or simply connect A, or BB, or BB4 ~ SCH ~, after the step. 66K_KBE or 6A.
3B: b6, agA. Long range : 6A/66K. Mid range : 66KBE, Close range : 4KK.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3K : 66KBE,6A
3KK: No punishment. The last kick is a high so you can duck ~ WR(B).
2K: 1K. WRK works if you are really close to Patroklos
1K: WR(B)
FC K: 1K. WRK works if you are really close to Patroklos
WR K: 3(B)
WR KA: 6A, 66K BE
BT 2K: 1K. WRK works if you are really close to Patroklos

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(A+B): No punishment. This move is a high and even though the delay is controllable, if you notice it quickly you could do iWR(B)
2A+B: WR(B) , CE
8A+B: No punishment (K would punish if Siegfried's foot was longer) (works near the edge)
WR A+B: 6A, 66K BE
B+K: K
8B+K: Run, when he jumps, towards him ~ BT SCH B ~ iagA. Or interrupt with 3(B), K etc. Or JG ~CE, 3(B)
8(B+K): Run, when he jumps, towards him ~ BT SCH B ~ iagA. Or interrupt with 3(B), K etc. Or JG ~CE, 3(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

22_88AA: No punishment. Both As are high, so you could just duck ~ WR(B)
22_88A(A): No punishment. Both As are high so you could just duck ~ WR(B). This move is extremely safe on guard (+16)
11_77B: K
66_33_99K: b6, agA. 6A, 66KBE
11_77 K: WR(B)
44 K: b6, agA, 6A, 66KBE
44KK: No punishment but you can duck the second K, which is a high as well and do WR(B)
66 B+K: No punishment. If you block the first hit, then Patroklos' second hit will whiff, so you can punish with 3B (with a frontstep first)
44 B+K: Step and punish with 3(B), iagA, etc
RUN K: WR(B)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

1b BE: No punishment. Duck the second hit then immediately step (88) for a backthrow, or punish with a move from step like 88BB
66_33_99 a BE: No punishment. You can either step the last hit (88) and punish with a stepping move, or JG the last hit and punish with CE or 53(B) (5 = Stay neutral for 1-2 frames or so, as if you do 3(B) immediately you won't hit Patroklos). This move is extremely safe (+8) on guard 77A after blocking the first hit.
CE: CE, 3B. 3A, iagA. But don't block this. 77A during the freeze will work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

JS A: b6, agA , 6A, 66KBE.
JS AB: b6, agA. 6A, 66KBE. You can step the last hit and punish with a stepping move. 77A with a slight delay after blocking the first hit.
JS B: CE, 3B. 3A
JS :B : CE, 3B, 3A
JS K: 3(B)
JSBBE : side step in 2 and backthrow or 22B.

Moves that cannot be punished or interrupted (Excluding JG)​
A
AA
6A
3A
2A
4A
FC A
7_8_9 A
BT A
BT 2A
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

B
BB
6B
2B
1B: This move is neutral on guard
4B
FC B
WRB
7_8_9 B
BT B
BT 2B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

K
6K
3K
4K
7_8_9 K
BT K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A+B
2B+K
BT B+K
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
66_33_99 A
22_88 A
44_11_77A
66B
33_99B
22_88B
44B
22_88K
66_33_99 A+B
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JS b BE
JS :b BE

Just Guard punishment.

Every time I will put the best option with meter and without.
Btw when you can go for 3B you can also use iagA. I won't mention it.
Since there is no pusback with a JG, 4KK can work very well.

A :

AA: If you JG the first, duck the second and punish with WSB. If you JG the second : K.
3A : 3B, 3A.
4A : , 3B.
WSA :3B, 3A.
44A : K :-(
66A : 3B, 3A
22A : 3B, 3A
JumpA : 4KK, 66KBE.

B :

BB : On the first : step the second and go for 3B or 22kA. On the second : K.
3B : 3B, 3A.
4B : 4KK, 66KBE
1B : 4KK, 66KBE
66B : 4KK, 66KBE.
33B : 3B, 3A.
11B : 3A, 1B.
22B : 4KK, 66KBE
44B: 66K_KBE
Jump B : K

K :

3K : 3A
6K : K
4K : 4KK, 66KBE.
2K/FCK : WSK, 66KBE.
22K :3B, 3A
66K : 3B, 3A
WSK : 1B
WSKA : on the first one : B+K to beat the second. On the second : 3B, 3A.
Jump K : 3B, 3A

A+B :

8A+B (the last) : 3B, 1B.
66A+B : 3B, 3A
WSA+B : 3B, 3A.

B+K :

B+K : 44A :-D
2B+K : 3B, 3A
8B+K_[B+K] : 3B, 1B.
44B+K : 3B, 1B.

JS

JSA : 3B, 3A. 3B is interrupting the follow up and SCHB is combo in this case.
JSB : 3B, 1B.
JSK : 44A.

Well thanks for your input Panto!
Since you know better, I'll put your corrections, without any second thought, unless someone else has found something better.

When I was making this, I put the punishers like (on all lists), yeah which move can punish and everything faster will punish, etc. So yea instead of i16s, since Sieg's i15s are better, as long as the range allows it, I could just include those too as better alternatives. As for some 3Bs that dont launch, I guess I could add 3A, if it works (I think I've included it tho), but an i18 punisher and faster works, I guess iagA would be as hard as punishing with agA, which are both very hard. As for b6 vs 6A, I thought b6 has more range but I could be wrong, but the way you put it, you are right...
As for JG I dont know yet. We could either add it to the lists, or make a seperate list, Idk?

If this post doesnt make sense, uhm discrete math side effects yo *_*

Ah, once I get the chance I'll update the lists, maybe retest (?) and add jg too

You're welcome.

About agA : On my side it's more easy to perform an iagA than a regular i16 agA. It's even more the case when I have to buff it. iagA you just have to do it as fast as possible. i16 agA you have to be fast... but not too much !
I already talked about this with Keev (since nightmare agA can be faster than iagA too), and he is also not able to use this as punishment. That's why I asked, are some people able to do this here ?

About the move I wrote : I really tested evrything, to be sure that there is no whiff.

Like you said B6 has a better range than 6A, but it's very a little, most of the time when B6 connects 6A connects too.

For the JG and the list I don't know either. Just pick the informations you need in my post and do as you want.
The way you did for this list was looking very nice, I'm trusting you.

About the next tests I will go for the more importants MU first (important for me).
So next ones will be : Mitsurugi, Alpha, Omega, Natsu.

agA/iagA as a punishment is very very difficult.
I had only done it offline in training rarely and with loads of failure as well and yes if you get iagA, going back to agA is a pain