Siegfried SCV Non-Gameplay Related Discussion

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Well sure, but I main Sieg and among my small army of secondaries are Setsuka, Kilik, Amy, Ivy and Yoshimitsu - I can switch if I feel the matchup calls for it, but I can still say Sieg is my favourite and I'll rep him if I feel conident in the match, without using a more... well stocked hand.
That's character loyalty, but I can be flexible - is this in someway wrong?
 
Character loyalty is what makes a great player, sticking with one character no matter how sucky it is. What actually shocks me is people that changes character from game to game depending on the tier...so sad...
=/
To be fair, Spid3r is right on this - if you want to win tournaments, giving yourself a character handicap won't help you. Its no good losing and saying if I chose, say Sophie, I would've beaten you. What makes a good player is being able to apply all of their knowledge into a strategy capable of beating the opponent. If the strategy calls for a character switch, then so be it.

I'm just arguing that there's nothing wrong with having a favourite, hence the loyalty.
 
I've been on here ever since the site existed and on sc.com before that. I don't remember "Solf", did you go by a different name on SCU/SC3.us?

Exactly, but I unfortunately can't remember it. I was and I'm still a Sieg fanboy however, so it was probably related to him at some point. The only thing I can remember is that I used to link you to new SC IV vids by PM (and I used to post info early on the board).
 
Character loyalty is what makes a great player, sticking with one character no matter how sucky it is. What actually shocks me is people that changes character from game to game depending on the tier...so sad...
why wouldn't you play the character that gives you the best chance of winning? That won't necessarily mean play top tier, though.
 
I go to tournaments to measure my Sieg, if I loose then so sorry for me, but thats the idea, test my skill :) although spider is right in his argument if I wanna win a tourney I will choose a better match up for each scenario
 
Well sure, but I main Sieg and among my small army of secondaries are Setsuka, Kilik, Amy, Ivy and Yoshimitsu - I can switch if I feel the matchup calls for it, but I can still say Sieg is my favourite and I'll rep him if I feel conident in the match, without using a more... well stocked hand.
That's character loyalty, but I can be flexible - is this in someway wrong?
If you feel you have the advantage in some way (better mechanics, char ignorance) and you’re playing to win, then no that isn’t “wrong”.

But say you’re not playing to win and you’re just playing because you like a specific character, character creation, or special versus with equipment stats (aka fun!!!). All those things are still based off of the same engine so anyone who is playing like that is still constantly presented with the opportunity of learning the game; at some point they have to choose yes or no. Presented with a choice:

Tier Martyr: Gotta switch charas to win in certain matchups Yes or No?
Character Creation: Gotta learn the actual system instead of making costumes all day Yes or No?
Special Versus: Gotta learn the basics instead of stacking equipment/stats Yes or No?

And most likely it’s going to be no no no. Or in the case of tier martyring, they willingly put themselves in a bad situation and then think they are better than the competitors who play to win with higher tiered characters.

To those who keep saying no no no, the “fun” will eventually stop at some point. And they’ll go off and do something else that’s “fun” over.. and over and over and over….
 
It was only a matter of time til the first of your kind started showing up.

Why don't you have some Kalas Schokolade (TM), fantasize about underage girls and leave real men to play with real men?

/nohomo

Go, play your incredible real "manly" character, you manly man, but leave the past in the past. Kalas Schokolade only belongs to me. ;-)
 
Sieg has 4 stances, make the math...

The math says that giving Siegfried throws from stance gives him at least one throw and at most four throws, one of which may possibly be a crouch throw or low throw. However, that doesn't show how that could be overpowered. If you're going to make claims that something is overpowered or broken, you should back it up by explaining WHY having throws is overpowered.

Elaborate.
 
No way, it's way easier to understand how your opponent thinks when you know how it feels to play their character.

I'd also argue that you don't really understand the matchup until you learn how their matchup against your character is different from their matchups against other characters.

I guess it's possible to know all this without ever playing another character, but it's so much easier to get a handle on their options at any given time and grasp the strengths and weaknesses of a character if you experience them yourself.

How are you going to fully understand how a tool is used if you never try it yourself? You simply can't hope to know the subtleties of a character if you rely on others to show you.
 
If you never even touch other characters, your understanding of the game is going to be necessarily limited. Just sayin'
That's the only reason that I've used other characters in SC games. That was my way of saying that I'm Sig in SC, I really don't like other characters play-style or story-wise etc.

No way, it's way easier to understand how your opponent thinks when you know how it feels to play their character.

I'd also argue that you don't really understand the matchup until you learn how their matchup against your character is different from their matchups against other characters.

I guess it's possible to know all this without ever playing another character, but it's so much easier to get a handle on their options at any given time and grasp the strengths and weaknesses of a character if you experience them yourself.

How are you going to fully understand how a tool is used if you never try it yourself? You simply can't hope to know the subtleties of a character if you rely on others to show you.
I agree 101% Not entirely necessary to play other character to know defense vs them, but it DOES help a lot more when I know if my rivals have to (or will to) do "1-input" or "2-input" moves, just for example. Like, when I watch any Sophy player walking diagonal-backward, I often expect them to 11_77AA, & that gives me their "tell" for me to ready ahead my 44B by just walking backward then pressing B on reaction to their action, which often happens to be 11_77A. Its kinda how I calculate my bets in matches. Measuring my rival's next move by RANGE also helps a lot if I know their 66_33_99 moves ahead to counter them.
Another thing is when their range (or any) move has a DOWN-input (like Sig's 2A+B), they have to stop before input DOWN or else they'll get a 22 buffered. I watch the slight pause & my reaction is to counter, often with b6 if they are at range.

EDIT ADD UP:
Another thing I wanted to add up to the "know character's input" is that, when a Sig is backpedaling it is unlikely for a 4K to come out immediately, because the player has to halt the 8wr or else a 44K would come out instead of 4K.
To any new Sig player, the character's input are kinda arranged towards their meant purposes by the developer's design. In other words, the input itself gives a hint of how (& when) to use certain moves at certain situations.
For example..
4K, 4A, 4B "are to be used" during: 5Neutral, 6_2_8Step, 66_33_99_22_88Runs.
11B, 44B "are to be used" during: 44_11_77_22_88Runs. I use 22_88Runs to lure my rival to High (mostly with 66A moves) then I TC by sliding to 1_7+B. Is very easy & effective.
6A, 6B, 6K "are to be used during: 5Neutral, 4_2_6Steps, 44_11_77_22_88Runs.

This is not mandatory, but for me it goes very well when I apply these during battles, EVEN at offline.

Now in SC5, Sig's 6K is SC4's 4K, to me that means that our favorite TC-safe-mid kick is now meant to be used while backpedaling. But, SC5's 66K seems to have TC again (not sure, but if so) that means that regardless of missing 6K during a 6Step & getting a 66K instead, will result in a TC anyway. Making it simpler for Sig to TC between 6Step & 66Run.

SC5's 22_66A have TC, more simpler to lure-in & punish High Horizontal from rivals, because Sig can 22_88Run to "bait" rivals into AA, 66A etc then react with A.
For what I've seen, Sig's hor/ver counter game sums up to: 22_88A to TC-punish High Horizontals & 22_88B to dodge-punish Verticals. B+K to GI Hor-mids, as usual like in SC4.

Another mix I speculate is the new 66A mixed with the new B4. Both have long range, blue-flash effects & similar sound at startup. How I would mix them? I would B4 often until my rival get used to step it (even if I get punished) then surprise them with 66A. Might sound dumb to some, but I'm optimistic about thanks to how is that the new QuickStep seems to work & how is that Horizontals & Verticals are finally working appropriately & not like in SC4 were some Verticals tracked more than Horizontals & some Horizontals were stupidly step-able even agA, lol dumb programmers, but thanks in the end for SC5's QuickStep.

It wouldn't surprise me if 22_88A is launcher-punishable. With it, I'm gonna try to time my rival to counter both HighHor & Vertical options with a well timed QuickStep followed by A. Not at close range tho.

Btw, this is just me speculating optimistically. Heheh, yesterday I dreamed that was playing SC5 at its release date with some friends in a mall, & Sig looked like SC2's NM n_n
 
Sieg has 4 stances, make the math...
Siegfried can throw with both hands cause he is right handed... he always use the left to grab the opponent while have the sword in the right hand to do the throw attack... so SSH doesn't give you the chance to think about grab them; SBH is crouched while putting the sword in front(to do 2B_A+G you have to use both hands); the only stances that allow grabs are RSH and SCH. For me this would add good YOMI options to the gameplay.
 
I was going to do a long writeup on why stance throws are a balance nightmare; but nobody here will read it anyways.

So heres the tl;dr verison:

Let's just say, it's a bad idea for Sigfried if you want his stance options to be good. You make him have throws, you have to tone down his stance options and thus the idea of "roulette" becomes pointless, because the best stances will have throws, or the ONLY option of any use those stances have will be throws.

Plus there is an issue of stepping on character toes- there already is a character with stance-throws. Mitsu.
 
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