SoulCalibur 6 wishlist and spam-support

[FallenAngelII]

I don't expect Bamco to announce a new Soul game anytime soon. They've been circulating a survey for some time now asking you what's your favourite Bamco property. It includes everything from Dragonball to Once Piece to the Tales series to the Tekken series. Conspicuously absent? Anything Soul-related.

 

[linkorz]

You guys forget that Create-a-Soul characters have always been banned in tournament play, anyway, so why would that matter?

Said this earlier, but I am minimally interested in wasting my time learning CaS-only styles that are banned in tournaments just so that I don't lose for free to online randoms.

 

[Macaulyn]

You guys forget that Create-a-Soul characters have always been banned in tournament play, anyway, so why would that matter?

That wouldn't be a problem if there were Bonus Characters representing each moveset (also, Devil Jin was allowed, AFAIK). And balancing CaS-only movesets is as much of an issue as balancing regular movesets.

 

[ZER0]

That wouldn't be a problem if there were Bonus Characters representing each moveset (also, Devil Jin was allowed, AFAIK). And balancing CaS-only movesets is as much of an issue as balancing regular movesets.

pretty sure Marginal, Menace and Link have been over this before:

if you don't know why that's a concern...then it might be high-time to do some research and find out why it's a bad idea...

The SC3 movesets were very much unbalanced. They wouldn't be suitable for tournament play as a result.

CAS on the whole are rather problematic for tournament play since you're playing on a TO's system and as such you'd have to build your CAS before the tournament to be able to use it. Given time constraints already in place on a tournament, this really isn't feasible.

On top of that, a CAS's size alters how the combos etc actually work which can also disrupt game balance. It's introducing too many wild cards.

Oh calm down.


Actually, no. They're usually not intended for tournament play. As such, they are usually terrible or broken with little in between.

I don't think you appreciate just how much time a tournament sucks up already.

Devil Jin never really worked in tournaments. I can't remember anyone actually using him.

Dude leave this CaS shit out of tournaments and leave it for casual play which is what its intended purpose is. CaS introduce too many variables that ultimately will be problematic. The size variations would open up the possibility for cheating. You would need TOs at every station making sure people aren't altering character models for an advantage. You are also assuming that Namco would balance these movesets with competitive play in mind. If we want any chance of having a long competitive life for this game or a chance at esports we cant have these cringy weeb battles on stream making our game look like casual city, people wont take us seriously. "Guys hold on I gotta get my sephiroth costume on point xD" No thanks fam.

As has been stated before, it would be too much hassle. TOs would have to make sure for each match that no one was using an altered CaS. Honestly I think Devil Jin being unbanned is silly anyways, but it mostly doesn't matter since nobody uses him.

 

[franman]

I can see why size for CaS can be troublesome but even for size I think there are other variables that can be compensated for height.

So say maybe a taller person may have better reach but attacks slower than a smaller person.

A thicker build person can do more damage but lacks the attack speed than a thinner person.

It's all theoretical of course.

 

[ZER0]

I can see why size for CaS can be troublesome but even for size I think there are other variables that can be compensated for height.

So say maybe a taller person may have better reach but attacks slower than a smaller person.

A thicker build person can do more damage but lacks the attack speed than a thinner person.

It's all theoretical of course.

it's not about variables ad stuff...the main reason is the hitbox issues...CaS show this off very well just how retarded they are, things that would normally hit a standard character would end up whiffing point blank and with no explanation on a CaS

 

[FallenAngelII]

That wouldn't be a problem if there were Bonus Characters representing each moveset (also, Devil Jin was allowed, AFAIK). And balancing CaS-only movesets is as much of an issue as balancing regular movesets.

It's not a question of them being harder to balance, it's a question of them having less priority and thus less work and therefore are more liable to be either garbage or overpowered. There's a reason why CaS-only styles, even when in the form of bonus characters, for the most part have been either overpowered or garbage tier.

Any time spent on polishing the moveset of a CaS-only character could be spent balancing the moveset of "legitimate" characters. Thus, they're given little priority. It's likely a small team, maybe 4 people, are given the objective of building and balancing the CaS-only movesets, which is why they're almost always broken (in both directions).

it's not about variables ad stuff...the main reason is the hitbox issues...CaS show this off very well just how retarded they are, things that would normally hit a standard character would end up whiffing point blank and with no explanation on a CaS

Yup, no matter what size you assign to a custom character, even if it's the same as the original characters', there are some moves and/or strings/combos that will inexplicably whiff on custom characters for no reason despite them hitting all of the normal characters just fine.

Said this earlier, but I am minimally interested in wasting my time learning CaS-only styles that are banned in tournaments just so that I don't lose for free to online randoms.

Yeah, that's basically the extent of my involvement with CaS-only styles.

 

[ZER0]

It's not a question of them being harder to balance, it's a question of them having less priority and thus less work and therefore are more liable to be either garbage or overpowered. There's a reason why CaS-only styles, even when in the form of bonus characters, for the most part have been either overpowered or garbage tier.

Any time spent on polishing the moveset of a CaS-only character could be spent balancing the moveset of "legitimate" characters. Thus, they're given little priority. It's likely a small team, maybe 4 people, are given the objective of building and balancing the CaS-only movesets, which is why they're almost always broken (in both directions).


Yup, no matter what size you assign to a custom character, even if it's the same as the original characters', there are some moves and/or strings/combos that will inexplicably whiff on custom characters for no reason despite them hitting all of the normal characters just fine.


Yeah, that's basically the extent of my involvement with CaS-only styles.

someone who gets it!! in casual play it'd be alright, but they're banned from tourneys for a very good reason.
SC4's bonus characters were no different either and is possibly the best situation I can think of as to why CaS/bonus characters should not be allowed in tourney-play. Of course (this isn't launched at you btw) you'd need to actually go to offline events/play in tourneys to actually know that...as opposed to just shouting "THEY CAN BE BALANCED!!!!" to everyone lol

 

[Macaulyn]

It's not a question of them being harder to balance, it's a question of them having less priority and thus less work and therefore are more liable to be either garbage or overpowered. There's a reason why CaS-only styles, even when in the form of bonus characters, for the most part have been either overpowered or garbage tier.

Any time spent on polishing the moveset of a CaS-only character could be spent balancing the moveset of "legitimate" characters. Thus, they're given little priority. It's likely a small team, maybe 4 people, are given the objective of building and balancing the CaS-only movesets, which is why they're almost always broken (in both directions).


Yup, no matter what size you assign to a custom character, even if it's the same as the original characters', there are some moves and/or strings/combos that will inexplicably whiff on custom characters for no reason despite them hitting all of the normal characters just fine.

That is not an excuse. If they want to make a game, they should put effort in ALL areas, in fact your argument of "time being spent on one could be spent on other" doesn't even apply, since once a character is in a satisfying place, there is no reason to touch him/her again, thus making it a free time, the same time you would have used for other movesets. SCIII and SCV were both rushed, thats why they resulted in bad CaW exclusives.

 

[FallenAngelII]

That is not an excuse. If they want to make a game, they should put effort in ALL areas, in fact your argument of "time being spent on one could be spent on other" doesn't even apply, since once a character is in a satisfying place, there is no reason to touch him/her again, thus making it a free time, the same time you would have used for other movesets. SCIII and SCV were both rushed, thats why they resulted in bad CaW exclusives.

They're extras. Of course less priority will be placed on them. Have you, you know, played Soul Calibur III, IV and V? The Extra Characters/CaS-only styles were horrible broken, either unplayable due to being shit or being broken as Hell and therefore automatically banned from tournament play. The rest were lucky to be borderline viable with, like, 3 viable characters throughout all 3 games.

But that's the thing, when do you decide that a character is at a "satisfying place"? Namco Bandai does not use location testing and hire competitive players to beta test their games the way Capcom does with the Street Fighter-series. It's the reason why we needed a Day One patch for SCV to begin with: Their beta testers aren't good enough to adequately balance their games (or even find game-breaking bugs, such as Fuzzy Guarding). This is, after all, the company that decided to, in each successive patch of SCV, nerf a character which started out as a Mid Tier character (Leixia).0

So if a tester says "This character feels like it's a finished character, playable and not broken" and you take their word for it, it could mean they're SCV Nightmare-tier or SCV sub-Z.W.E.I.-tier. Playtesting characters takes hundreds of hours because you have to test out their hitboxes, frames and then how they interact with other characters so that there aren't matchup-specific issues and glitches.

And to do that, you need to pay someone to sit down and do it. CaS-only styles are by definition extras. No company worth its salt is gonna bother paying through the nose to playtest that shit. And if you think that companies don't or shouldn't playtest their game and characters 'til past launch day (now in the age of readily available patching), then what are you doing on a board for competitive fighting game play?

 

[ZER0]

They're extras. Of course less priority will be placed on them. Have you, you know, played Soul Calibur III, IV and V? The Extra Characters/CaS-only styles were horrible broken, either unplayable due to being shit or being broken as Hell and therefore automatically banned from tournament play. The rest were lucky to be borderline viable with, like, 3 viable characters throughout all 3 games.

But that's the thing, when do you decide that a character is at a "satisfying place"? Namco Bandai does not use location testing and hire competitive players to beta test their games the way Capcom does with the Street Fighter-series. It's the reason why we needed a Day One patch for SCV to begin with: Their beta testers aren't good enough to adequately balance their games (or even find game-breaking bugs, such as Fuzzy Guarding). This is, after all, the company that decided to, in each successive patch of SCV, nerf a character which started out as a Mid Tier character (Leixia).0

So if a tester says "This character feels like it's a finished character, playable and not broken" and you take their word for it, it could mean they're SCV Nightmare-tier or SCV sub-Z.W.E.I.-tier. Playtesting characters takes hundreds of hours because you have to test out their hitboxes, frames and then how they interact with other characters so that there aren't matchup-specific issues and glitches.

And to do that, you need to pay someone to sit down and do it. CaS-only styles are by definition extras. No company worth its salt is gonna bother paying through the nose to playtest that shit. And if you think that companies don't or shouldn't playtest their game and characters 'til past launch day (now in the age of readily available patching), then what are you doing on a board for competitive fighting game play?

see what I mean?

as opposed to just shouting "THEY CAN BE BALANCED!!!!" to everyone lol

all it takes is for someone to do a bit of research or to actually go to events to figure this out, and FallenAngel, my friend, you have clearly done yours and have a very firm grasp on the situation regarding CaS

 

[ZER0]

CaS ISN'T IMPORTANT...END OF STORY!!!!!!!!

 

[FallenAngelII]

see what I mean?

Yeah, that's my last attempt to reason with that user. If they persist, I'll just tune them out.

all it takes is for someone to do a bit of research or to actually go to events to figure this out, and FallenAngel, my friend, you have clearly done yours and have a very firm grasp on the situation regarding CaS

Despite being from a basically dead region where SC is concerned, I have been a competitive fighting game player for over a decade. :)

 

[ZER0]

Yeah, that's my last attempt to reason with that user. If they persist, I'll just tune them out.


Despite being from a basically dead region where SC is concerned, I have been a competitive fighting game player for over a decade. :)

Aha all the more better then!!!

 

[franman]

Sigh... I remember the times when I played my first small local tournament in SC4, the T.O. allowed bonus characters and since I main Cervy, I picked Shura for the extra reach advantage. I was iffy on that rule, but if I were to play to win I'd pick her over Cervantes.

As for CaS, I prefer the originals over them, its just nice to have CaS with more customized move sets, but you know time constraints and all that. Maybe for the new IP in Gamescon, CaS will have its own game title? But I doubt that the new IP will be that.

 

[FallenAngelII]

As for CaS, I prefer the originals over them, its just nice to have CaS with more customized move sets, but you know time constraints and all that. Maybe for the new IP in Gamescon, CaS will have its own game title? But I doubt that the new IP will be that.

Wouldn't a new IP mean that it can't be a Soul game? It's a new IP, after all. They didn't say they'd reveal a new game, but a new IP, which implies it should be something new entirely.

I expect it to be yet another anime license. Or maybe a new Naruto series, seeing as how the Ninja Storm series has come to an end. "Boruto: Scarlet Spring Chronicles I" or some crap.

 

[franman]

I was thinking more of a different fighting game with different mechanics, but with CaS in the world of Soul Calibur; however, I've realized that many casuals buy SC due to CaS; this was based on my observation when playing SC4 & 5 online; most of the random players I've met use CaS.

What I've understand based on your previous posts is that they want to keep CaS at a minimum to satisfy a large portion of casuals, but if they make a new game based on CaS, then it may turn a large portion of CaS fans towards that game and not go for the actual SC game.

So perhaps ditch that idea, maybe make a DLC instead?

 

[FallenAngelII]

I was thinking more of a different fighting game with different mechanics, but with CaS in the world of Soul Calibur; however, I've realized that many casuals buy SC due to CaS; this was based on my observation when playing SC4 & 5 online.

What I've understand based on your previous posts is that they want to keep CaS at a minimum to satisfy a large portion of casuals, but if they make a new game based on CaS then it may turn large portion of CaS fans towards that game and not go for the actual SC game.

So perhaps ditch that idea, maybe make a DLC instead?

They can very much make a new Soul game with a lot of CaS styles. We'll just ban them in competitive play. A CaS-focused game, however, would not be great for the series or anything beyond the occasional romp for fun.

 

[SomeRandomHuman]

Battle System: If we add Soul Charge and make GI cost less, how would that benefit gameplay wise?

Decision to include SoulCharge was inspired by this thread. I think that meter and sc are not mutualy exclusive and as input for sc is free 5A+B+K they could just affect different moves. Also it's an unique SC feature, so why not return it for
diversity sake. As for GI it's just a general complaint that I see everywere "GI costs too much".

Characters: What do you mean by Edgemaster becomes Necrid-like?

I want him to stop being a copy-cat char. He should have all types of weapons equipped all over him and use different set depending on stance (I want him to be stance-based like Ivy was before). As for "set of weapons" in his moveset he should combine numerous weapons from his arsenal.

Costumes: If we have 3+ costumes for all characters, are you going for a "Street Fighter IV palette and costume swaps" over "customize everything your way"?

Nope, I just want return of some nice costumes from previous games. Like SCIII Ivy 2P, Serv 1P from SCIV, etc As for new characters - just make their unused concept arts into costumes - sometimes those are awesome and even better than what we have as default in the end.

Modes: Which ones did you like most? Which of the few modes should come back for SCVI? The Chronicles of the sword from SC3? The legendary souls mode from SC5? Which ones?

If I have to choose two - it's definitely gonna be SCIII-style story mode and Chronicles of the sword. Anything more - SCIII soul arena.

Character Creation: What do you mean "only two sizes - recommended and mimic"?

At the start of creating a character in SC5 we are choosing three things - gender, body size and body type. There is numerous options for second position one of them is "recommended" - aka the same size as the default character using this style. I want this to be limited, in the name of balance, to only "recommended" and new option "mimic size" - which is "same size as the mimic we have in this SC".

DLC and whatever: What sort of collaboration items do you have in mind?

Armor from Dark/Demon Souls and Bloodborne - design of it is cool and fitting in SC and, as publisher of SC and DC/BB is the same, there probably whoudn't be any problems regarding adding those.

 

[Ooofmatic]

I'd be down with them adding a dark skinned girl as dlc if its to late to add them to the base roster

How about a BIG MOMMA type character, she'll be like Tekken's Bob with a frying pan as a weapon.