Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

ZionOAS

[09] Warrior
I'm in full agreement. I may be an Amy zealot, but Viola is fine as her own thing. Anyways, her NOT being Amy would be a better twist than doing the obvious. Plus Project Soul could save money by using the same voice actress. I don't care what convoluted excuse they use (Viola is the physical manifestation of Raph's ambition, or some sorta clone created by Azwel, ETC) as long as everyone winds up happy in the end.
I wouldn't mind if she and Zwei ended up coming from the future in some convoluted spell to attempt to free them from their cursed fates. She could be the opposite to Zas being she experienced a future timeline, where he knows all about the past.
 

ZionOAS

[09] Warrior
Well, in that sense, just about everybody is a yeller in Soul Calibur. ;) I think we need to look to someone who is not just vocal when they make their challenges, but someone who actually yells, in the traditional sense of that word--inarticulate exclamations. Like Maxi, Li Long is prone to just straight-up yelling, using the kind breathing/exclamation techniques that are common to southern Chinese arts--particularly as they are represented in classical kung fu films. Seems like the best fit to me.
This may be the one that I'm conflicted about now. Because all these characters are mentioned through the Libra and Chronicle modes. I remember during Mitsurgi's story he was looking for Li Long because he was trying to challenge and kill him? Yet I fell like Hilda will make an appearance over him because it would balance the male/female ratio. Yet there are allot of clone characters being introduced so who knows. I rather it be Hilda. And Hilda is rarely using her inside voice.
 

LisaK

[13] Hero
This may be the one that I'm conflicted about now. Because all these characters are mentioned through the Libra and Chronicle modes.
Although they are mentioned I doubt it is a problem. Cassandra and Amy were listed as DLC 2/DLC3 in the game datamine and both have generic profile in the museum.
I remember during Mitsurgi's story he was looking for Li Long because he was trying to challenge and kill him?
Mitsurugi confronted two thieves, one of them use nunchaku. Li Iong is mentioned in the Xianghua's Soul Chronicle, when she talking with Meimei (Li Long's sister).
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I really feel like Hilde and Algol are going to have to wait. If they are indeed adding Rock, then it would make far more sense to include Hwang and Li Long than it would for Hilde and Algol. Having the complete SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, which is arguably the best, but definitely most complete, roster we've had in the series, would be an amazing achievement for this game to reach, and a great way to cement its place in history.

I realize that Hilde and Algol are more unique, but that's not stopping them from releasing Cassandra and Amy in the season one pass, so uniqueness isn't a qualifying factor, it doesn't seem like. I know I've been one of the louder preachers of narrative over the past year, but all signs really do point to narrative having significance over unique styles, particularly with the return of Rock, and the possibility of having both Hwang and Yun-seong, which certainly opens the possibility of having both Li Long and Maxi.

We have so many other "clone pairs" already, to leave a couple out just seems pointless, since they're differentiating them even more in this game than they ever have before (even though SoulCalibur III was already differentiating them a fair bit, especially Hwang and Li Long), and this is a throwback to the old times, it just makes perfect sense for everyone to be included, and given enough to set them apart.
 

sytus

[11] Champion
If Season 2 is real I really hope it's all the legacy characters so we can finally have a game with everyone from the golden era. It would be a dream come true for me if Li Long comes back especially with double nunchucks. I have a feeling he won't make a return but this glimmer of hope with the place holder "yellow" has got me very excited indeed even though a placeholder like "monk" would be more concrete.
 

deuxhero

[10] Knight
Yell is more likely ダンピエール (Dampierre. The last three characters on their own are how "yell" is transliterated to Japanese. Transliteration to kana is weird like that.) than Hilde.
 

Crash X

[13] Hero
I really feel like Hilde and Algol are going to have to wait. If they are indeed adding Rock, then it would make far more sense to include Hwang and Li Long than it would for Hilde and Algol. Having the complete SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, which is arguably the best, but definitely most complete, roster we've had in the series, would be an amazing achievement for this game to reach, and a great way to cement its place in history.

I realize that Hilde and Algol are more unique, but that's not stopping them from releasing Cassandra and Amy in the season one pass, so uniqueness isn't a qualifying factor, it doesn't seem like. I know I've been one of the louder preachers of narrative over the past year, but all signs really do point to narrative having significance over unique styles, particularly with the return of Rock, and the possibility of having both Hwang and Yun-seong, which certainly opens the possibility of having both Li Long and Maxi.

We have so many other "clone pairs" already, to leave a couple out just seems pointless, since they're differentiating them even more in this game than they ever have before (even though SoulCalibur III was already differentiating them a fair bit, especially Hwang and Li Long), and this is a throwback to the old times, it just makes perfect sense for everyone to be included, and given enough to set them apart.
It’s not really the complete SC3: AE roster if Olcadan isn’t a part of the DLC. Kappa
 

Autumn

[09] Warrior
Yell is more likely ダンピエール (Dampierre. The last three characters on their own are how "yell" is transliterated to Japanese. Transliteration to kana is weird like that.) than Hilde.
Damn, I didn't think about that. I posted a page or so back about エール and yell, but I theorizing that it was a deliberate mistranslation of the letter L.

If YELL is truly Dampierre, then that's an awfully weird choice for DLC, especially over Hilde. If they manage to flesh him out into a more useful moveset, however, I'll be okay with it since I actually like Dampierre as a character. Otherwise... eh.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
It’s not really the complete SC3: AE roster if Olcadan isn’t a part of the DLC. Kappa
I believe Dante means the whole roster as regards unique movesets. There's still plenty of time for Namco to include mimics if they choose--since they only need create the models, a couple of simple art assets, and a tiny bit of coding for such characters, I think it would make sense for them to at some point add a third pulldown menu (such as is currently used for CaS and random selections) to the character select screen, with this pulldown menu allowing the player to choose Edge Master, Charade, or Olcadan, per their preference, to truly round out the SE-SCIII main cast--and all of this added as one of their patch freebies to all players.

Mimics don't really bring much to the party at the end of the day, and would not go over well as pay-for DLC, but one can hope for something like I describe above; they represent a significantly larger amount of effort when compared against those handful of CaS freebies they have released for free thus far, but at the same time, a truly trivial amount of effort when compared against a character with their own moveset. And there's no reason they couldn't dole a new one out every few months. Of course we've seen no indication Namco has plans to do this, and there have been SC games without mimics before--this just strikes me as just about the only way they could do it.

Yell is more likely ダンピエール (Dampierre. The last three characters on their own are how "yell" is transliterated to Japanese. Transliteration to kana is weird like that.) than Hilde.
Ehhh, I guess that's not exactly nothing, but I think "is more likely" is quite a stretch... Dampierre is one of the least popular characters in the series, arrives in the original narrative significantly later than anyone we've seen hinted at for DLC before, and would not seem to fit any of the patterns and design priorities of the devs as demonstrated so far. To me, this is a little like speculating that "Star" is Necrid because he comes from another star system. Sure, I guess, but there's just too much arguing against.

I really feel like Hilde and Algol are going to have to wait. If they are indeed adding Rock, then it would make far more sense to include Hwang and Li Long than it would for Hilde and Algol. Having the complete SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition roster, which is arguably the best, but definitely most complete, roster we've had in the series, would be an amazing achievement for this game to reach, and a great way to cement its place in history.

I realize that Hilde and Algol are more unique, but that's not stopping them from releasing Cassandra and Amy in the season one pass, so uniqueness isn't a qualifying factor, it doesn't seem like. I know I've been one of the louder preachers of narrative over the past year, but all signs really do point to narrative having significance over unique styles, particularly with the return of Rock, and the possibility of having both Hwang and Yun-seong, which certainly opens the possibility of having both Li Long and Maxi.

We have so many other "clone pairs" already, to leave a couple out just seems pointless, since they're differentiating them even more in this game than they ever have before (even though SoulCalibur III was already differentiating them a fair bit, especially Hwang and Li Long), and this is a throwback to the old times, it just makes perfect sense for everyone to be included, and given enough to set them apart.
Yup, I completely agree--but then I've been arguing since the beginning that they were likely to close out the SE-SCIII main roster before considering SCIV characters, and as soon as I realized there was a configuration of the likely picks for the six codenamed characters that would allow them to do that, and composite the SCIII:AE cast as a consequence, it seemed all but a lock. Every indication here is that their approach is stretching towards reconstituting all of that core cast from the original narrative arc of the first half of the franchise.

But I also agree with all the smaller details you stress there. Calling a character a "clone" because they have a similar weapon is just not accurate--not with regard to this series anyway. Li Long played very differently from Maxi in SCIII:AE, with Li Long lacking Maxi's speed, guarunteed strings, and overall combo capability, instead gaining slightly increased range and a fair bit of zone control from his dual-nunchuku style. And Yun-seong has played markedly differently from Hwang since his first appearance. And that was without the tools that they have presently for differentiating characters.

Between the complexity of movesets in contemporary SC games and the advantages of Soul Charge, I am no more concerned that Li Long will duplicate Maxi, Rock will duplicate Astaroth, Cassandra will duplicate Sophitia, and Hwang and Yun-seong will duplicate eachother than I am concerned that Nightmare and Siegried or Kilik and Seong-Mina duplicate one-another. The devs for this series demonstrated ages ago how similar weapons (and indeed, these exact pairs of characters) can coexist in a given game and play quite differently with enough attention to detail--and they have more methods (and success) in accomplishing that goal in the current game than ever before.
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
As far as mimics are concerned, I feel like we'll get Edge Master as a freebie, and I feel like they'll actually surely for sure add a mimic, for symmetry. The problem with the second season pass having six characters in it is that it leaves a hole in the middle, not that we don't already have one of those, but it would extra weird, I think, to have another hole at the bottom of the screen. What I mean:

Code:
Inferno     Siegfried    Zasalamel  Nightmare  Azwel
Xianghua    Maxi         Sophitia   Astaroth   Ivy
Yoshimitsu  Kilik                   Grøh       Cervantes
Talim       Mitsurugi    Geralt     Taki       Tira
Creation    Seong Mi-na  Raphael    Voldo      Random
Yellow      Cassandra    2B         Amy        Stone
Yell        Star                    Snow       Reptile
A dropdown selection for Charade/Olcadan as well may be possible, but considering that Edge Master already has presence, I think just him would suffice. Then again, with yet another row of characters added, the hole that we already have becomes even more conspicuous, so the possibility exists that they'd fill two spots, one for Edge Master, and one for Olcadan. Sorry for Charade, but Edge Master and Olcadan have related history, and Charade has nothing.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
As far as mimics are concerned, I feel like we'll get Edge Master as a freebie, and I feel like they'll actually surely for sure add a mimic, for symmetry. The problem with the second season pass having six characters in it is that it leaves a hole in the middle, not that we don't already have one of those, but it would extra weird, I think, to have another hole at the bottom of the screen. What I mean:

Code:
Inferno     Siegfried    Zasalamel  Nightmare  Azwel
Xianghua    Maxi         Sophitia   Astaroth   Ivy
Yoshimitsu  Kilik                   Grøh       Cervantes
Talim       Mitsurugi    Geralt     Taki       Tira
Creation    Seong Mi-na  Raphael    Voldo      Random
Yellow      Cassandra    2B         Amy        Stone
Yell        Star                    Snow       Reptile
A dropdown selection for Charade/Olcadan as well may be possible, but considering that Edge Master already has presence, I think just him would suffice. Then again, with yet another row of characters added, the hole that we already have becomes even more conspicuous, so the possibility exists that they'd fill two spots, one for Edge Master, and one for Olcadan. Sorry for Charade, but Edge Master and Olcadan have related history, and Charade has nothing.
Yeah, I actually agree that Edge Master alone with his own icon is a more probable freebie than a pulldown menu for all three (at least to begin with)--and that's assuming they do any mimic fan service at all. But then again, if they are trying to go full-on completionist for SE-SCIII, who can say with certainty? At the end of the day though, the pull-down menu is just something that appeals to me as an organizational matter, and for the benefit of squeezing in a couple extra classic faces; if one mimic from that era is going to be included, I reckon it can't hurt to have all three? Even if Olcadan and Charade's character designs are a little "meh." In any event, I don't think they will clutter the menu with multiple mimics this time as they did with V; I have to think think it will be one of the three following options, in rough order of descending likelihood: no mimic, just Edge Master, or a pulldown menu.

I wouldn't be too concerned about the present alignment of the menu though--that thing is going to have to be radically altered to accommodate the new inclusions, and I'd be surprised if they just scale it to allow another row. I think by the time the rest of projected characters are released, it will look substantially different in terms of alignment and the relative positioning of some characters.
 
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KageKazenami

[10] Knight
Don't have much to say on Rock and Hwang if they happen until we see how they're done. Can't say I have a preference between Hwang or Yun on that one. Wouldn't mind Dampierre for Yellow, but I'd honestly rather he come later as a separate thing if we get him. If we're all wrong and Reptile isn't Aeon/Lizardman then it's safe to assume everything we knew is a lie, Azwel is Li Long in disguise, and Dampierre actually is Nightmare and not a joke character. I'm with everyone else on hoping snow is Setsuka for sure.

As far as Yell and Star goes, I really hope Yell is Hilde since she stands among the few missing characters left that I want back alongside Setsuka, and I'd be happy with either Viola or Algol as Star. A case could be made for either, but while I'd love to see Viola reworked for this game, Algol is mentioned fairly heavily at least in Libra. Same goes for why my vote goes to Hilde due to how often she was talked about despite lack of inclusion. All that aside, I'd absolutely welcome Edge Master on the side whether free or paid, personally. I'm of the view that having a single mimic in a fighter is a positive for it, though.
 

weshookhands

[10] Knight
Looking at this from a cost-efficiency perspective, the main challenge for Project Soul would be to flesh out returning characters so much that they no longer qualify as clones, just like they did with Mi-Na.

Amy sure had her own share of moves and wasn't all that close to Raphael's moveset in SCIV. Her in-game model (face and hair, motion capturing etc.) is basically up to date and would only have to be adjusted to the new costume design a bit.

Same for Cassandra, who I think will inherit some of Patroklos' moves (because they wouldn't have to waste resources and could base her SCVI iteration on existing movesets that were well-received overall).

Taking that into account (and trying to exclude wishful thinking), I think it would make the most sense for the code names to equal...
  • SNOW to Setsuka: In-game model highly reursable, popular moveset with little to no need to really change any inputs (only had one A+K command in SCIV, don't remember what it was like for aPat). People will pay for her.
  • REPTILE to Lizardman: Several preexisting high-quality in-game models to base his iteration on, moveset easier to flesh out than others since he already assembled a big catalogue of distinct moves throughout the games (and they could reuse mocap data from Kratos for example).
  • YELL to Hilde: PreExisting reusable in-game model, unique moveset that wouldn't have to take lots of time and effort to differentiate from existing characters. Also, she's popular and Dampierre isn't (although I find the katakana theory intriging). On a side note, HILDE translates to BATTLE in early German, so maybe that could be the reason for that odd codename (???)...
  • YELLOW to Hwang: Highly requested, could inherit most of Yun-Seong's moves but would probably take much more resources to flesh out than above character's movesets. Also, he hasn't had a proper reusable in-game model since SCIII IIRC which would have to be build from the ground up. On the other hand, I have no clue who else would be codenamed YELLOW... And people would definitely pay for him...
  • STONE to Rock: Preexisting in-game model. However, it would probably need the most time, money and effort to rebuild his moveset into a unique one as Astaroth has most of his moves. Unsure if people would pay for him if he's not coming back with a popping new moveset/weapon.
  • STAR to either Viola or Algol: Both have preexisting reusable models and don't have to be unclonified moveset-wise. However, Algol's not that popular, Viola on the other hand had Amy's face in SCV, so I have no idea how they'd solve that issue with Amy being confirmed...They could either re-conceptualize the whole character or even give Viola's orb to Algol, just to retain the moveset (which would be the cheapest way to do it, I guess). That one's a tough call, can't really say...I think that Yun-Seong as STAR is rather unlikely as that would mean that they'd have to develop one more completely new, unclonified moveset (but would have to let other people down who could't switch to a similar character like Yun fans could to Hwang).
IMO these would be the most cost-efficient solutions to the puzzle.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Hwang inheriting Yun-seong's moves would be grossly missing the point of Hwang, who is a more strictly disciplined fighter who serves as an inspiration to others who train at the Seong Dojang. Yun-seong's style is much more wild, reflecting his brash and unrefined demeanor, who idolizes Hwang, but doesn't take the time to master the form, instead improvising and making his own. So Yun-seong's style is the one that would take quite a bit less work, since it would mostly be inspired by his appearance in SoulCalibur IV. Hwang's style would come from SoulCalibur III, requiring more work, but they would do it, for the purposes of differentiation.
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Wait, wasn't the SCIV Hwang a mere CAS-based character?
Hwang in Broken Destiny used Yun-seong's style, yes, and he used Devil Jin's style in SoulCalibur V, but both of those appearances were very much just bonus frills without much thought put into them. Li Long also appeared using Maxi's style in both Broken Destiny and SoulCalibur V, but both Hwang and Li Long had their own fully unique styles in SoulCalibur III, especially Arcade Edition where they were fully fleshed out. That's the real movesets that they could/should be based on if either or both of them make it into SoulCalibur VI.

Also, what if STONE = SMALL ROCK = BANGOO? :O
Bangoo finally might be interesting, but without Rock himself making an appearance, it doesn't seem likely. Like imagine if Amy was in the game without Raphael also being there, it would be like that.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
Looking at this from a cost-efficiency perspective, the main challenge for Project Soul would be to flesh out returning characters so much that they no longer qualify as clones, just like they did with Mi-Na.

Amy sure had her own share of moves and wasn't all that close to Raphael's moveset in SCIV. Her in-game model (face and hair, motion capturing etc.) is basically up to date and would only have to be adjusted to the new costume design a bit.

Same for Cassandra, who I think will inherit some of Patroklos' moves (because they wouldn't have to waste resources and could base her SCVI iteration on existing movesets that were well-received overall).

Taking that into account (and trying to exclude wishful thinking), I think it would make the most sense for the code names to equal...
  • SNOW to Setsuka: In-game model highly reursable, popular moveset with little to no need to really change any inputs (only had one A+K command in SCIV, don't remember what it was like for aPat). People will pay for her.
  • REPTILE to Lizardman: Several preexisting high-quality in-game models to base his iteration on, moveset easier to flesh out than others since he already assembled a big catalogue of distinct moves throughout the games (and they could reuse mocap data from Kratos for example).
  • YELL to Hilde: PreExisting reusable in-game model, unique moveset that wouldn't have to take lots of time and effort to differentiate from existing characters. Also, she's popular and Dampierre isn't (although I find the katakana theory intriging). On a side note, HILDE translates to BATTLE in early German, so maybe that could be the reason for that odd codename (???)...
  • YELLOW to Hwang: Highly requested, could inherit most of Yun-Seong's moves but would probably take much more resources to flesh out than above character's movesets. Also, he hasn't had a proper reusable in-game model since SCIII IIRC which would have to be build from the ground up. On the other hand, I have no clue who else would be codenamed YELLOW... And people would definitely pay for him...
  • STONE to Rock: Preexisting in-game model. However, it would probably need the most time, money and effort to rebuild his moveset into a unique one as Astaroth has most of his moves. Unsure if people would pay for him if he's not coming back with a popping new moveset/weapon.
  • STAR to either Viola or Algol: Both have preexisting reusable models and don't have to be unclonified moveset-wise. However, Algol's not that popular, Viola on the other hand had Amy's face in SCV, so I have no idea how they'd solve that issue with Amy being confirmed...They could either re-conceptualize the whole character or even give Viola's orb to Algol, just to retain the moveset (which would be the cheapest way to do it, I guess). That one's a tough call, can't really say...I think that Yun-Seong as STAR is rather unlikely as that would mean that they'd have to develop one more completely new, unclonified moveset (but would have to let other people down who could't switch to a similar character like Yun fans could to Hwang).
IMO these would be the most cost-efficient solutions to the puzzle.
Models are actually pretty much a trivial part of the cost-efficiency equation for a development team making a 3D fighter; those take a couple of days of labour for one or two junior members of the development team who don't even require much prior experience with the franchise, especially given their considerable library of object files and other art assets. It's the moveset that takes weeks or months of coordinated design and tedious work involving numerous developers; each movement has to be wire-frame choreographed for the models, has to have its hitboxes developed, its values established and programmed and qualities applied, and its non-standard visual effects animated--to name just a handful of the tasks! Then it has to be rigorously tested for faults and bugs, before ultimately being balanced against the entire rest of the roster existing at that time. Honestly, models are such a drop of water in the bucket in the process of creating a character in the new engine, I can't imagine a few art assets laying around play even a slight role in their decisions about which characters to add.

Also, I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but people should really understand that pretending certain characters are likely candidates is pure wish fulfillment--particularly anyone from SCV. I appreciate that 90% of the time it's Viola, and I get why people are still hung up on her; her moveset was one of the silver linnings of SCV's questionable roster. But narratively (and with regard to every other priority the devs have emphasized in interviews and in the product they have delivered so far), she just doesn't fit. The story is set far too early for her, and they have shown a clear propensity for filling in the characters of the early story arc. And I know it's not going to be popular, but I think Hilde is probably out as well. I just can't fathom that they would re-introduce virtually every character of the SE-SCIII arc and then leave just a single one (or two) out, even though they are releasing just enough characters to otherwise make that cast complete. I very much hope there is a third season that will see the return of the SCIV (and maybe some select SCV) characters, but I think people need to not get their hopes up for season two. If I had to put money on it, it's Rock, Lizardman/Aeon, Li Long, Hwang, Yun-seong, and Setsuka. I was surprised that they would release both dao wielders in a single season, but I think they are the most probable picks for 'Yellow' and 'Star.'

Hey, I was watching that just yesterday! I really wish they would release a port of that game, I miss the hell out of it, and though I still have the PS2 version (and have hung on to a PS2 just for the purpose of playing it once a year or so), it's just no replacement for the Arcade Edition--especially where it comes to Hwang, Li Long, and Amy.
 
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AMillionHP

[13] Hero
I think we're getting a little to hung up on SC3AE here and making the situation out into something that doesnt apply today. Hwang and LiLong being in that game was acceptable because there wasnt anyone else to throw in. Now there is and no, the order of events or narrative wont justify that.

What significant things is LiLong even going to do if he does come back with a story? In his case the whole point is two nunchucks instead of one, or just for people who dont like Maxi. There is basically no other reason to have him.... and this is coming from someone who hates Maxi.