Stepping, or 8-way run?

DrakeAldan

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
I have a habit of using 8-way run a lot. Maybe it's exposure to baguazhang; maybe it's just a habit from playing Amy (hold 3, cause whiff, press B, instant combo) but I've been thinking about how I move recently.

I have heard that 8WR has inferior evading capabilities. indeed, as an example, looking at something like Hilde's 22_88AB...

If Hilde is on 2P, you can block the A and then input [8] to dodge the B.

But... you cannot input [2] to dodge it. However, 2 works.

So I began thinking... I "step" a lot of things with 8WR. (I catch CH doing it too, but you know...)
One of my favorite moves is [3] to side throw/back throw or 33B.

But, if I limited myself to single taps, I might end up evading more things than I usually would. If I cut down on even that, only using stepping in educated guess situations, then I might not get CH so much...

Why should you use 8WR instead of step at all?
If they are to be used for entirely different purposes, what are they?
 
nice thing about 8WR is that you can guard while doing it, and chances are you've got a few good moves from it. it can also be intimidating and cause your opponent to react...

single-stepping evades better, as in it takes less time to actually begin the dodging act and it covers a greater distance in the same amount of time. but you can only block towards the end of the animation. more useful in close quarters, i would say.

i like to single-step and hold the direction again for the best of both worlds. :)
 
KowtowRobinson said:
Takes longer to guard from an 8wr than from a normal step, which can be guarded from instantly. There are benefits to 8wr, that's just not one of them.
Click to expand...

hmm, i'm not sure what you mean by "normal step" then. maybe we're talking about different things?

in practice mode, taki vs taki, i recorded WS A, AB. if i block the WS A, and then single-tap 2_8~G i get hit. but if i block the WS A, and then 8[8]~5~G i can block the AB.
 
Drake: Learn to utilize both. When turtling or giving yourself time to read the opponent's next probable move, stepping (tapping) is a great way to prepare yourself for the right moment to run in and mix up. The right moment is when you know you have a greater chance of landing the mixup because your opponent will be just a tad off in their normal reaction time, but you should try to be unobvious about it. On the other hand, 8WR is great for getting out of tight situations when you're trying to regain control of your spacing...and then, it's back to reading their next move. =D
 
I could be wrong, but certain characters have one better than the other. Doesn't Nightmare have an average step but great 8way run?
 
I've tried to reduce stepping to in-close only, when I can predict a vertical coming, and 8WR for maneuvering outside of range.

This has largely turned my game into a very basic, static... sort of feel.

Stepping is risky... I believe tribaL once said that Americans don't maneuver enough/step enough, or something. That's for good reason, since you step, there's always that chance of you taking a CH...

Though, on the flipside, it has made my GI-sense kinda go up a little I guess. I dunno.
 
sure you can guard earlier with 8 way run, but there's almost no evasive properties at close to medium range so it is pointless to 8wr at minor disadvantage. Side step on the other hand will evade many verticals and horizontals at close to medium range. Also if you step G you can guard or crouch guard on frame 12 or so after the input of the step, at least for nightmare.

Step G >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 8wr at minor disadvantage.
 
Sidesteps are something you should learn to play second nature with as it's the best way to dealing with most verts. One pattern you should incorporate is to double-tap into your sidestep so you have 8 way movement along with all moves provided. If you need to practice better, use SC1 as holding 2 results in crouch and you'll learn to work around it instinctively.
 
I don't have a Dreamcast for SC1. :|

And doesn't double-tapping cut your step short (and thus decrease its evasive capabilities)?
 
dont hold 8 or 2 , if you want to step do 8_2~G, if you want 8wr do 8~[8] or 2~[2]. Otherwise you cant step anything but moves with zero tracking. It takes some time to get used 2 but well worth it.
step starts at around 5-6th frame, meaning if your at -9 you cant step i14 moves for ex. but guarding from stepping or backdashing starts at around 11~12th frame. at same -9 step~G against an i19 horizontal is not possible.
 
Say, Belial-

I know that step-G is a habit from older games... does it still have the same effect in Soul Calibur IV, or is something like 8~G an attempt to cover yourself immediately after stepping?

Apparently guarding too early during the step will cut it short and have you blocking attacks instead?

Also, does anyone have any videos of someone utilizing stepping (or general evasion tactics) very effectively?

I'm recently thinking of trying to bolster my defense by using more proper movements or some such...

Also-

What are the drawbacks of twitch-ducking, and how would you go about learning/properly implementing it into your game?
 
there are atacks than only can be stepped with precise timing. many of the slow atacks can only be stepped after a certain point in animation but will track if you start movement beforehand. some can only be stepped to one side with precise timing but doesnt track at all to another side.

many atacks in the game are steppable by precise input one or both sides = step, but are not 8wrable to one side. you can easily test this by, for ex by recording BB -> random move. and try getting hit by BB and then stepping. you can evade many atacks like this. now try blocking BB and then doing a step. most of the same atacks will track you now.

but some moves will not or will hit you very rare. such moves have very little to no tracking to particular side. 8wr is very effective against such moves if you know they are coming. perfect example would be amy's 33B which is steppable both ways, but 8wrble to the left only (p1 up). many amy players tend to walk around baiting for a wiff. utilizing 8wr-left will force them to switch to either 66A+B (steppable bothways, 8wr-able-right) or close on you and try to mix you up.

now on step~G.
when you do a single step (or I refer to it as a precise step) you aim to step a move your opp buffers into hit stun. if your opponent doesnt your step just happened to be useless and the best thing you can do to minimize damage is tap~G.
To minimize the risks tapping G should be done very fast after inputting a step. either you'll stay vulnerable for a longer period of time.
There are other applications to be learned from this. at -1~-2 and less disadv you can step~G against most horizontals killing step like AA (depending on the character) and retain all adv of the step itself. the larger the disadv the less options are steppable at around -9~-10 i15 cant be stepped at all. and only -20 moves can be step~G. do the math yourself. I believe G from step is possible since 11th frame. and step itself takes around 6 frames to start.

very few moves like BB second hit will track both step and 8wr. in this case a double step is needed.
In some very rare ocasions moves that will get blocked by step~G can be still stepped by stepping without G. but such moves are usually (I think always, but cant test everything you know) 8wrable anyway.

I've no idea whats a twitch ducking. Maybe you refer to progressive defence? (ex: sitting for a 17 frames getting up on 18th frame to block 18-frame atack)
 
Thank you very much, this will serve as good study material for a while.

Um, I think twitch ducking is also comparable to fuzzy guard, or "progressive defense", as you put it.
If not, well, if you could explain said progressive defense as well that'd be great too.

Watching some videos (specifically the Koreans'), they can duck and punish highs (notably AAs) but sometimes they duck quickly and come back up even though there's no high to dodge, which leads me to believe that they may be twitch ducking. I'm relatively new to the concept so I don't do it- when I duck, I commit to ducking when it is obvious (which sometimes leaves me vulnerable to fast/wakeup mixups and the like).

I haven't completely grasped using quick movements for defense (as I originally stated that I preferred 8WR over stepping before I started trying to change it).
 
8wr is better in sc4 than it is in sc3. it's not an easy question to answer cause it's so situational and a mind game in itself, but in general, you want to 8wr at distance, 8wr when you see a slow move that's steppable, 8wr after you've put yourself at advantage, or 8wr to limit certain characters options at certain ranges or after they do certain attacks. you want to step when you're at close range, step when you are at slight disadvantage, step when you're at slight advantage but believe your opponent will attack, and step at advantage to make your mixups more effective and at the same time be able to block if opponent tries to attack (that is, if you just run up and do a mixup, most moves become easier to block, grabs become easier to duck, etc). your welcome
edit: oh, just saw yall are talkin about twitch ducking. step guard to duck, that's my shit, cause most characters use highs, slow mids, and tracking lows to stop stepping, step guard to duck beats about everything. so bored i'm giving away strats, it's not in my nature to share shit.
 
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