Super High-Level In Your Face TIERLIST!!!

I know I'm late 2 da partay but, seriously, I can't find any tierlist (das not a wurd lol) thread that I can post in and I never got to share my opinion. If possible, I want this to be a discussion because I want to talk about everyone's perspective and actually like to hear this stuff (so, if we can, no close, please). I mean, I know people get angry for whatever reason but that's just another spice of life, right?

I'd like it if, rather than posting you guyseses own that you criticize mine. Now, I understand that might not always be the case but I'd at least like for the topic to start off that way so that I can give a chance to give some reasoning. But, please, be direct in your criticism and questioning; it's much harder to answer the question, "Why is *X* here?" as opposed to answering, "Why is *X* here and not here?" or "Why is *X" here instead of *Y*?"

Well, without further delay, my own personal tierlist! =o

A:

Cervantes
Alpha Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Algol
Tira
Viola

A-: Pyrrha

B+: Patroklos
Natsu
Yoshimitsu

B: Nightmare
Siegfried
Pyrrha Omega
Hilde
Voldo
Ezio
Xiba
Astaroth
Ivy
Aeon
Maxi
Z.W.E.I.

C: Raphael
Leixia

D: Dampierre

I also want to make a spreadsheet to see how much what I think matches up with what I think (know what I mean)? So, if someone can help me understand...how to actually make a spreadsheet, it'd be much appreciated!

 

A tierlist is pretty much the same thing as a matchup chart. You have your matchups, which make your matchup charts, which make your tierlists.

Of course, they don't 100% complete each other but you get what I'm getting at, I hope.

 

I figured you wouldn't and I think the second part was for me so I'll reply. The things you have to realize about those attacks are:

1) They are two very good attacks when used properly.
2) They are HEAVILY punished when your opponent defends against them.
3) They are two of Mitsurugi's best attacks.

Taken together, this means they are two good attacks with very huge risks involved that, though Mits doesn't necessarily HAVE to use, add a lot to his gameplan.

i just gave those examples because I think they perfectly represent what I am trying to explain, Mitsurugi has maybe the best mixups in the game (lets forget viola, again), he has a lot of "very good attacks" and a double critical edge, and combined with his safety (in most of his attacks), speed and range he clearly makes an unbalance in the game, at least for me.

I am not a hater and I use mitsu every now and then but I know how "strong" he is, maybe you are right and he is not broken, i don't know, but he is very near to be

 

A tierlist is pretty much the same thing as a matchup chart. You have your matchups, which make your matchup charts, which make your tierlists.

Of course, they don't 100% complete each other but you get what I'm getting at, I hope.

No it isnt, a matchup charts uses numerical values to determine tiers. what people may disagree on is the match value of a particular matchup but that dosnt affect the whole list in a huge way as just saying character A is the best just cuz he is. In SF they used numerical charts and it lead to a pretty well agreed on tier list

 

This thread seems kinda... biased? Great info, but a lot of questionable opinions.

 

This thread seems kinda... biased? Great info, but a lot of questionable opinions.

Take what you consider great info, ignore what you think is not worthy. Is what I do.

 

No it isnt, a matchup charts uses numerical values to determine tiers. what people may disagree on is the match value of a particular matchup but that dosnt affect the whole list in a huge way as just saying character A is the best just cuz he is. In SF they used numerical charts and it lead to a pretty well agreed on tier list

Umm...what exactly are you disagreeing with again...?

What I'm telling is that, essentially, even with a complete matchup chart, Raph would be at the bottom of the tierlist. I'm not sure exactly what it is you think that we're overlooking about the character (ThugishPond, ARU, Hawkeye, and myself all know how to play with the character) but we'll be at NEC and maybe you can show us there. I'm sorry to say that everything you've said thus far is nothing I don't believe any of the players who are considered top players haven't considered about him.

 

May as well post mine.

S tier:
-Viola
-Cervantes
-Alpha Pat

A tier:
-Pyrrha
-Pyrrha Omega
-Patroklos
-Tira
-Mitsurugi
-Algol
-Astaroth

B tier:
-Natsu
-Yoshimitsu
-Voldo
-Nightmare
-Maxi
-Ivy
-Xiba

C tier:
-Ezio
-Siegfried
-Aeon
-Leixia
-Dampierre
-Raphael

D tier:
-Zwei

I have NO idea where to put Hilde.

 

B

 

I feel like Natsu <3 is being underrated...

 

ChaosK, have you posted yours? I wanna see it.

 

So why do some people think cervantes is S tier?

 

So why do some people think cervantes is S tier?

dat nicca cheep

 

Umm...what exactly are you disagreeing with again...?

What I'm telling is that, essentially, even with a complete matchup chart, Raph would be at the bottom of the tierlist. I'm not sure exactly what it is you think that we're overlooking about the character (ThugishPond, ARU, Hawkeye, and myself all know how to play with the character) but we'll be at NEC and maybe you can show us there. I'm sorry to say that everything you've said thus far is nothing I don't believe any of the players who are considered top players haven't considered about him.

I think the main point he is trying to make is that in a MU chart it is way easier to compare each others opinions. Its hard to question someone who thinks this char is that tier but it is much less complicated to argue about a certain MU being even or in a chars favor. Also the result is much less biased imo because the added numerical values add up to a much more detailed tier list.

Imo we should really start a project where we collect data for ALL MU's and i am sure we would end up with a pretty decent Tier List, that most people would agree on.

I am not questioning your tier list btw i am just saying that its almost impossible for a single player to be knowledgable about every chars MUs and i think this is the reason why some tier placings might be a little off or why there are differences between your list and, say, Xephs list.

Tl,dr: MU Chart project, make it happen.

 

So why do some people think cervantes is S tier?

He is the perfect balance I think. You have insane mix ups, throws, combos, damage, you can get half bar from a simple launcher and you don't wanna be punish by him. Talking about mix ups, did you watch EVO, Shen trolled everyone with his mental games.

 

Cervantes just frames are probably the best in the whole game *trivia* lol

 

*reads posts*

 

I think the main point he is trying to make is that in a MU chart it is way easier to compare each others opinions. Its hard to question someone who thinks this char is that tier but it is much less complicated to argue about a certain MU being even or in a chars favor. Also the result is much less biased imo because the added numerical values add up to a much more detailed tier list.

Imo we should really start a project were we collect data for ALL MU's and i am sure we would end up with a pretty decent Tier List, that most people would agree on.

I am not questioning your tier list btw i am just saying that its almost impossible for a single player to be knowledgable about every chars MUs and i think this is the reason why some tier placings might be a little off or why there are differences between your list and, say, Xephs list.

Tl,dr: MU Chart project, make it happen.

A joint project here would never work because lots of people here don't have the amount of knowledge here necessary to make one, no matter how frank they are, and even a less amount of those people are humble enough to admit they lack that knowledge.

If he wants a matchup chart, he's looking in the wrong place; the name of this topic mentions nothing of the sort. Lots of people have went on and on about why Raph is at the bottom of their lists and, honestly, I don't think anything short of him being beaten unbelievably badly in the game will change his mind on the matter.1

I would like to add that I do admire that last trait.

 

The truth hurts.

 

A joint project here would never work because lots of people here don't have the amount of knowledge here necessary to make one, no matter how frank they are, and even a less amount of those people are humble enough to admit they lack that knowledge.

If he wants a matchup chart, he's looking in the wrong place; the name of this topic mentions nothing of the sort. Lots of people have went on and on about why Raph is at the bottom of their lists and, honestly, I don't think anything short of him being beaten unbelievably badly in the game will change his mind on the matter.

This is basically my point, imo NO ONE is able to build a completely correct MU chart, so this is not how i would do it either. If i were in charge i would basically just let two SA's discuss about a certain MU and see what their consensus would be. I would do that with every MU in the game and collect all the data, which would result in a complete MU chart/Tier list.

It would be a lot of work but imho its the best way.

 

He is the perfect balance I think. You have insane mix ups, throws, combos, damage, you can get half bar from a simple launcher and you don't wanna be punish by him. Talking about mix ups, did you watch EVO, Shen trolled everyone with his mental games.

Gotcha, I can agree there. No I didn't catch EVO, but I'll find a video.

dat nicca cheep

Lol Best explanation yet.