Super High-Level In Your Face TIERLIST!!!

I know I'm late 2 da partay but, seriously, I can't find any tierlist (das not a wurd lol) thread that I can post in and I never got to share my opinion. If possible, I want this to be a discussion because I want to talk about everyone's perspective and actually like to hear this stuff (so, if we can, no close, please). I mean, I know people get angry for whatever reason but that's just another spice of life, right?

I'd like it if, rather than posting you guyseses own that you criticize mine. Now, I understand that might not always be the case but I'd at least like for the topic to start off that way so that I can give a chance to give some reasoning. But, please, be direct in your criticism and questioning; it's much harder to answer the question, "Why is *X* here?" as opposed to answering, "Why is *X* here and not here?" or "Why is *X" here instead of *Y*?"

Well, without further delay, my own personal tierlist! =o

A:

Cervantes
Alpha Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Algol
Tira
Viola

A-: Pyrrha

B+: Patroklos
Natsu
Yoshimitsu

B: Nightmare
Siegfried
Pyrrha Omega
Hilde
Voldo
Ezio
Xiba
Astaroth
Ivy
Aeon
Maxi
Z.W.E.I.

C: Raphael
Leixia

D: Dampierre

I also want to make a spreadsheet to see how much what I think matches up with what I think (know what I mean)? So, if someone can help me understand...how to actually make a spreadsheet, it'd be much appreciated!

 

snip

well hes not bad comparatively on his own, but stack up his damage potential vs that of say, viola or apat. compare his strengths and weaknesses to other characters, check his whiffs/whiff consistency, and then ultimately check his matchups vs other characters, and his ability to adapt to different situations on the fly. now i'll be honest with you, im not a raph player, and although ive dabbled with him a little bit, my knowledge of raph pretty much ends at how to kill him, what and what not to do against him ect. imo raph suffers from some of the same issues i feel sieg does, which is while still usable, isnt well enough adapted for the game as they need to be. you also cant afford to make as many mistakes, and have to punish alot more of your opponents mistakes than they have to for you. I just feel like the odds are stacked against him. but thats just my opinion. make of it what you will. If raph works for you, who am i to say otherwise? maybe DrakeAldan will win SCV EVO2013 with Raphael, and prove us all wrong.

and personally, i think raph has some good distance above zwei, who's also in the same tier. they may both be low tier, but i personally think raph is a better character.

i think SCV is an ok balanced game overall, but it could use some touching up through patches still(fix viola infinite, fix whiffing, funky hitbox moves that either track too much or not enough, ect. the list goes on) and i do believe the higher tier characters need to have some changes made to them, not because they are unbeatable(because they arent) but because imo its to the point where they are kind of ridiculous and silly. also a personal issue of mine deals with the damage output of the game(i personally think its too high, that not only do the matches go by too fast, but also that it takes some variation out of the game) but it depends on what you expect to see from a fighting game as well, and what kind of game you prefer to play(though i'd still like to see those other few issues patched...assuming there ever is another patch. i wont bet money on it.)

either way, im just happy we dont got tekken(i really dont like tekken, if you do, then we've just got different tastes in games is all). so i cant complain.

 

As far back as Sunday Heaton told me personally and I quote, "Raph sucks". Laugh now.

Don't drag me into this.

 

Heaton's Raphael = best Raphael
Tie for best Raphael = Antics_R_us

 

...Xiba kind of really sucks more than people realize IMO. I can't put him on even ground with most of the characters in the B list. It's not really a mystery why people seem to barely use him these days. The lack of exposure will cause people to not be fully prepared for Xiba but still most seem to have an easy enough time dealing with him.

Someone said recently that he's the SCV Yun-Seong. I don't entirely agree, as I think he's relatively stronger than Y-S was, but there's definitely a lot of truth in the comparison.

What is up with Algol placing so high?
Seriously, am I missing something?

How can a character who can do full life combos not be one of the best characters in the game? So many of his moves lead to massive damage. And he can easily get a guard burst into 44B. Not to mention of a backstep too.

The standard counter arguments are that a) he needs meter, but he builds meter so fast, just like everyone else does; and b), that he doesn't have good anti-step, well for a start 66A and 6AA are good, 22A is also good against some opponents, but more importantly he does big damage using fast and slow Verticals, which can negate the need for amazing anti-step tools. I don't want to have to go over it again, but I will explain what I mean if someone takes issue with this.

In short, if your Algol opponent can do 2A+B -> FC8B BE links, then you're in "one hit and you're dead" territory.

 

alot of txt

Raph dosnt really have whiffing problems and i think he goes even with like 80% of the cast. Yea his dmg isnt beast outside of prep but his keep away game is really gd. Not too mention despite common misconception he has solid ways to stop stepping and prep is surprisingly gd. I think people put him in bottom tier cuz they literally know nothing of the character

 

Im curious what will unfold in this thread, so i will watch it.

EDIT: i actually talked to a few players on SC4 raph and told them my finds....they were suprised about prep being so good in the game.

 

Snip

Hey LP, would you mind indulging a couple questions? This is IdleMind btw, new username and all that.

1) To what degree do you think the players of the top-end characters on the tierlist color your perception of where they are?

2) What potential degree of player variance do you think exists within any given character (that is still considered playing them near optimally)?

As a collary to question two; at what level of play do you think a person needs to be at before "playing their own style" is an actual effective thing, and not just an excuse people use for losing? To clarify, what I mean is the common complaint from what I consider to be subpar players stating that "The game only allows you to play this character one way to succeed".

And now for a classic flippant comment to people to induce insecure responses:

As for the tierlist itself, I have no input as I don't feel qualified on inputting. I will however watch this thread for other unqualified people talking out their asses about a game they obviously know nothing about.

 

Im not putting down any tier list...I rather see the top players do that, I don't really think there should be something like SS...i think S is just fine. Then A,B,C, and so forth

 

Raph dosnt really have whiffing problems and i think he goes even with like 80% of the cast. Yea his dmg isnt beast outside of prep but his keep away game is really gd. Not too mention despite common misconception he has solid ways to stop stepping and prep is surprisingly gd. I think people put him in bottom tier cuz they literally know nothing of the character

i've just never personally seen raph as much of a threat. as a sieg player i personally feel that while the matchup is in his favor, the only thing ive really got to worry about outside of the usual raph stuff is his long range block/whiff punishment, which can be a pain for siegfried at times. but i'd rather fight a raphael than i would most of the cast because hes easier to deal with. as said before i dont think he's the worst character in the game - i believe hes far better than zwei(though i'd be happy to admit im wrong if someone is willing to prove me wrong). but i feel that raph does infact lag behind the rest of the cast in terms of strength. he just doesnt reach the level of ridiculousness that some other characters in this game do.

 

Slayer u could fight Younfox on XBL to see what his raph is like. I already did and he has raph down pretty well

 

Raph is the closest thing to a FAIR character in an UNFAIR game. Almost everyone has some BS that makes them useful. Raphael has some BS, but is not as easily abusable as most of the better characters in this game. Coupled with lack of access to easy high damage from easy attacks (i.e.: Damp's 623K series, Ezio BB BE, Cervy iGDR) he isn't really threatening.

 

Juece's Tier list

S tier- Juece

A tier- Other high level tournament players

B tier- some of the people on this site

C tier- everyone else on this site

D tier- everyone not on this site

E tier- Xeph. :D

 

slayer it sounds like u think damage is the main reason u think raph belongs in low tier. I personally see him middish mostly cuz i feel out side of maybe 3 matchups he goes even with the cast. He dosnt do phenomenal damage but most of the characters in the game are gonna eat a gd amount of damage just trying to get in if the raph player does their job right

 

if the raph player does their job right

this i understand. and i can see where you're coming from. but imo the margin of error that is allowed for raph isnt enough to give him a comfortable situation vs the rest of the cast. the raph player doesnt have to just do their job right, they have to do it JUST right. he cant afford to make bad reads or mistakes as much as the rest of the cast, and i feel there's very little room for forgiveness where he is concerned. thats why i put raph where he is, although come to think of it i think he is more akin to siegfried than he is to zwei. but even so that only makes him go up to C-TIER which imo still isnt that great.

 

my own opinion of tier lists-
A.
aPat
Viola
Mitsu
Cervy
Tira

A-
Asta
Algol
Natsu

B+
Pat
Pyrrha
Xiba
Nightmare
Ivy
Pyrrha Omega

B
Maxi
Voldo
Yoshi
Leisha
Hlide
Seigfried

C
Aeon
Raphael
ZWEI
Ezio

D
Damp

 

Pat in B...humm, I can't agree to that.

 

Ezio 2nd worst in the game, I do not agree to that at all.

 

I can't believe you all think Xiba sucks. Whoa. I don't think we're playing the same type of Xiba. I wanted to whip him out at one of the MLGs but forgot to. =(

 

slayer even if they get in then he actually has gd risk reward vs the cast while in prep. All the absolute answers to his stance can be baited by just not going into prep for pretty gd damage and while creating space. the low wisk options like universal 2a lose to prep 2 for 115 dmg max. Im not arguing for him to be too high on the list and him being c tier is a step int eh right direction but y put him there when he really only at a disadvantageous MU are probably mitsus,aPat, pyrrah, and maybe viola

EDIT: when i say disadvantage i mean 6/4 at worst

 

aPat is only good if he is played like he is supposed to be played and sadly not everyone can play him at the level he needs to be used at.

Redundant sentence is redundant.