Super High-Level In Your Face TIERLIST!!!

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I know I'm late 2 da partay but, seriously, I can't find any tierlist (das not a wurd lol) thread that I can post in and I never got to share my opinion. If possible, I want this to be a discussion because I want to talk about everyone's perspective and actually like to hear this stuff (so, if we can, no close, please). I mean, I know people get angry for whatever reason but that's just another spice of life, right?

I'd like it if, rather than posting you guyseses own that you criticize mine. Now, I understand that might not always be the case but I'd at least like for the topic to start off that way so that I can give a chance to give some reasoning. But, please, be direct in your criticism and questioning; it's much harder to answer the question, "Why is *X* here?" as opposed to answering, "Why is *X* here and not here?" or "Why is *X" here instead of *Y*?"

Well, without further delay, my own personal tierlist! =o

A:

Cervantes
Alpha Patroklos
Mitsurugi
Algol
Tira
Viola

A-: Pyrrha

B+: Patroklos
Natsu
Yoshimitsu

B: Nightmare
Siegfried
Pyrrha Omega
Hilde
Voldo
Ezio
Xiba
Astaroth
Ivy
Aeon
Maxi
Z.W.E.I.

C: Raphael
Leixia

D: Dampierre

I also want to make a spreadsheet to see how much what I think matches up with what I think (know what I mean)? So, if someone can help me understand...how to actually make a spreadsheet, it'd be much appreciated!
 
I get your point and agree, but even excluding the execution would you put Mitsu lower than the top?
It really depends on who you're asking. Mitsu has tools for a lot of situations, but he's not absolutely dominant.

He lacks horizontal mids, 22A only accessible from 8WR, 44A being slow, 3A being short-ranged, and bA being really unsafe.

2KB BE leads to a really bad oki situation, but if you block it...

3B can be scary to punish, but the full combo costs 1.5 bars. Mitsu doesn't build meter as easily as some other characters... This is somewhat negated by the round 2 free bar, but it can still be a factor.

Playing Mitsu meterless averages him out with the rest of the cast (about 50-60 damage per combo). If he wants more than that, he has to take risks (like CH FC 1BB).

Mitsu can sometimes have some spacing issues depending on how he's played. 4A, B6, 6B, B+K, is about 20-30 damage (kind of like Raph's... entire moveset... heh, heh...)

tl;dr Mitsu is pretty damn good, but I wouldn't raise an objection if someone thought he was A tier instead of S.
 
No...just no -.-

How can you even compare high execution characters with the most simple and rewarding character in the game? Alpha is better than Mitsu I agree, but only if you are some kind of robot and never miss his JF, meanwhile Mitsu can easly defeat any character, he is way too safe, verticals that tracks (just look at 4B for Chirst sake!), stupid damage (yeah almost everyone makes tons of damage but Mitsu is the king of stupid high damage from simple safe starters) he needs meter, true that, but he gains a lot of meter from...again...safe moves. Ask ANYONE! here why EVERYONE! put Mitsu on top, they will come up with similar answers. Question for you, name a character with better mix up game?

Why did you only talk about Alpha!? Of course Alpha is much harder to master than Mitsu, but you get more out of Alpha the better you get wtih him. Cervantes is a character with stupid mixups that are on par with Mitsi(3B/1AB) or(throws/3B) and you can learn all the crazy just frame IGDR-stuff to do more damage than Mitsu ever can(and that without! meter). And I did so many fights against variuos Mitsus and 4B doesn´t track that good... It can sometimes, but many people are overracting imo.

I even don´t want to talk about Amy... Viola i mean...

Mitsu is since the last patch not top for me anymore. At least i can agree that Alpha, Cervantes and Viola are top.

Oh, and Raph is the worst character in the game... There is no! competition.
 
Just a little silly question, isn't APat a little unsafe.....and Tira overal unstable to give a proper tier?
 
Just a little silly question, isn't APat a little unsafe.....and Tira overal unstable to give a proper tier?

aPat is very safe, most notably on his combo starters...33B, 66B, 3B and maybe a few others I can't think of right now.

As for Tira, I'll let somebody who plays her explain.
 
Tira is S tier in one mood and probably C is the other. Not sure where that leaves her, I guess she can averages out to a low A or high B.
 
We can't see Tira as two characters, truely she is not, her mood swings are her, so I guess there is the problem trying to put her in two diferent leagues and use a average one to explain ><
 
I'm bored so I'll make one of these. Don't take this list seriously as I lack a lot character knowledge.

S: Cervy, Alpha, Viola, Tira, Mitsu
A: Pat, Phyrra, Algol, Omega, Asta, Natsu
B: Nightmare, Ivy, Siegfried, Xiba, Leixia, Yoshi, Voldo, Hilde
C: Maxi, Ezio, Damp, Aeon, ZWEI, Raph
 
Just a little silly question, isn't APat a little unsafe...
No, not at all. The only unsafe moves that he actually needs that come to my mind are JFT and 1A:A:A.
And if JFT is used correctly in combos and as a punisher, I don't see how an Alpha player should do it on block anyway. Imo he's one of the safest characters in the whole game.

About Raphael being the worst character or not being competitive?
 
About Raphael being the worst character or not being competitive?

I don't agree with either of them. And it makes me laugh that the ones putting him there don't play Raphael at all. And all the other noobs just blindly follow as usual. I wonder what Heaton would say on the subject, for example, or YoungFox.
 
How big do you think the gap between A tier and B tier is?

I honestly don't believe it's that big. The difference between most of the A and B in my list is either damage

and/or bad matchups. Viola is the only character I believe in my A portion but her damage and tools somewhat makeup

for it. Pyrrha doesn't have any bad matchups and has some really good tools but her damage doesn't warrant putting

her with the rest of the A tier in my opinion.


Now for my opinion. Is there a reason Cervantes is at the top?

Other than the fact that Cervantes is completely and utterly fuckin' bananas, no. Cervantes has pretty much every

tool you could possibly want and they're all really good so long as you're a good player. Not only that, but even

his punishable stuff is barely punishable or hard to punish by a lot of the cast. The risk/reward is always in his

favor, regardless of if he has meter or not. He can deal with any situation also, with some of the best

stepkilling/fast/longrange/mids or highs. Hell, his aB alone can make some matches seem impossible if used right.

Super Broken Amazing I Quit SCV forever omg Tier:
Nightmare

I feel the same way. =(

Why Astaroth and Omega so low? I personally see them above the rest of

these chars.

I've never felt that Ast was all that intimidating (Okay...well, I did in 4...and he's unarguably better now...but

yeah). I feel that he really needs to play a smart spacing/and poking game that's way too risky. The range of his

throws is really good, but guessing right on a throw often does as much (or more) than his throw would have done).

Not only that but he's very limited at close range, which is where he's supposed to be the scariest. His damage and

some of his good range attacks are the only thing make me put him so high.

Omega is so low because she, in my opinion, plays like an unsafe Pyrrha (which is bad). The strategy for Pyrrha has

always to turtle her and OPyr makes that's much more viable than regular Pyrrha. Sure, she has damage, throws, and

frametraps but I think the safety and her tools make her have to play a much smarter and more restricted game than

regular Pyrrha.

Regarding matchups:

Easy question: Which is the most lopsided matchup?
Hard question: Outside of mirrors, which match is the most 5:5 ? Like 5.000 : 5.0000 between two different

characters?

I think Viola vs. Ast is 7-3 in her favor. I also think Mit/NM vs. Viola is 7-3 in their favor.

Hard Question: I think most of Pyrrha and Mit's matches are pretty even. I think there are so many 5:5's that it'd

be hard to go down the list, though.


Could someone breakdown why aPat is top tier. I know he has

some great tools to work with but he also lacks some important tools as well. Most notably safe mid step kill. I

too agree he

He has 4k and 3A; his other stepkilling tools are good enough to do the job (not to mention throws on par with

Ast). His FC2K is more than good enough for stepkill, though.

I'm starting to think Nightmare might be a bit weaker than the other B tier characters, as he is a bit limited once you know your optimal choices against his options, and has some horrible matchups.

I think that Maxi, ZWEI and Xiba could be in a B- tier, maybe even C tier.

The thing about NM, in my opinion is that, while a lot of his tools become useless in some matchups, in other ones, they completely dominate and dictate the flow of the match. Not to mention that his movement (backstep) and ability to whiff punish from full screen already limits some characters tremendously.

I think Xiba is pretty damned good so I dunno. As for Maxi, I could see him being worse than I imagine, but not enough to be lumped in with Leixia and Raph.


These are in order right? So you believe Viola is at the bottom of top tier? Is there a particular reason for this other than her terrible range and punishment options?

Also what makes you believe that ZWEI deserves to be a spot higher than Raph?


I explained the Viola thing higher up. As for ZWEI, he does S-rank damage and I honestly think he probably deserves to be higher, but, as said earlier, no one has shown that he deserves a higher rating so it'd be pompous of me to put him any higher.



1. It was really hard for me to put some characters in any type of order in the B group (I wanted to put a lot of them right next to each other). As you observed, the biggest thing keeping most of them from being A even is either damage or matchups or some combination of both.

2. Pyrrha is like oPyr except overall simpler and safer. Her damage output isn't high but her safety and movement more than make up for that.


I don't agree with either of them. And it makes me laugh that the ones putting him there don't play Raphael at all. And all the other noobs just blindly follow as usual. I wonder what Heaton would say on the subject, for example, or YoungFox.

I agree that he's playable (hell, if he could combo better from 22b, he'd be cheapness). But I also believe he has to work much harder in some instances than a lot of the cast (on that same note, he does have an easier time with some things).


Also, I think ShenYuan is probably more qualified than I can ever be to speak on the matter of Tira.
 
Is there really even a way of cementing a worst character in the game? I don't see anyone that is so rock bottom that is unviable. Of course there HAS to be a worst character in the game in the same way there HAS to be a best one but those two categories are hard to fill.

I personally think the game is fairly well balanced. Yes a lot of the characters have retarded stuff but if most have something dumb, is that not balanced? Its like in a 100m race, you will say its unfair if 1 or 2 are on steroids but if everyone is, it's pretty much fair.
 
Oh yeah, as for Mits, I think, if I had to give a reason why I put him high, it's because he can be played any way and do well at it. He's not as braindead as some people believe, though - he's just very good. Also, he does above average damage on everything (not super high, mind you).

As for 4b, it's just a good move. The fact that every character can punish it with pretty much their entire movelist if they bait it out more than makes up for everything that it does.
 
I cant state specifics because I dont know her move notations but after playing against a certain Viola today a few times I now think she is ridiculous again. 3/4 of my health combo off of a low kick? I tried every which way to get out but it was practically guaranteed. I dont even know anymore with her. Although I will agree with you all about Cerv. Went from losing streak to 12 winning. I dont really think I can place them better/worse than each other but my top few are Viola/Nightmare/Cerv/aPat. I would just say they are all about even.
 
No, not at all. The only unsafe moves that he actually needs that come to my mind are JFT and 1A:A:A.
And if JFT is used correctly in combos and as a punisher, I don't see how an Alpha player should do it on block anyway. Imo he's one of the safest characters in the whole game.
aPat is very safe, most notably on his combo starters...33B, 66B, 3B and maybe a few others I can't think of right now.
Thanks for the replys, I really wasn't aware of how good is APat
 
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