Taki Study Discussion:

Taki Study discussion:

yeah, i've used that a couple of times. I think shinobi posted it a while back. The only problem I have with that is that Hover options aren't really a mix up these days. People are seeing it on reaction. Only time it really mixes up is when you train people...like everything else taki has :/ or when they try to hit you an wiff and have to quickly react to hover. Good to throw in the mix though
 
Taki Study discussion:

The thing with this setup is that since you use PORC twice, they are almost always at the ring edge by the end of the combo.

There is a stronger onnus for them to guess correctly and it's much harder to step out of.

If they guess wrong, PO Hover A will RO, and PO Hover B into WS K will RO.

Doing this long combo is a good way to move them into a much stronger position when it comes to RO potential.
 
Taki Study discussion:

I agree with Motempest.

I get hit with stuff like Cervy's 8A+K out of hover a lot of the time, and it's on reaction. To mitigate anti-hover strats a bit, I started interspersing fake hover. Fortunately, that has slightly different timing and isn't as vulnerable to anti-hover tactics. However, I still eat some anti-hover stuff on reaction (not entirely because I'm not mixing up).

Even though you are by the edge of the ring, and the risk is high, if your opponent can trust their reactions to beat a hover mixup, it's just not a threat. Something like... (Long combo) POSC, bomb, A+K B+G would be good because if your opponent's back is to the ring, they don't want to mess up at all. If they try to step, they could eat a PO B or bomb -> air throw. If they sit there blocking, then they eat soul damage, and if they have locked up, they could even eat the air throw RO. At that point, you can even try hover, since the hope is that they are frozen. The take home message is that mixing it up is all important with Taki.

If your opponent's SG is low this could be really, really potent.
 
Taki Study discussion:

I still havn't found a good use for PO Mist (or fake hover) aside from style points. Since it always leaves you back into PO, you'll just be hit out of it pretty often. So might as well do the Hover.

The best use of Hover in my opinion is when you anticipate a whiff and when they least expect it. If you're going against a very strong turtle who's just going to hold G and punish you after you do a predictable AB PO Hover, you're better off trying something else.

But if they have a nasty habit of trying to knock you out of PO shift while you're on positive frames, Hover will punish their whiff for massive damage.

My favorite is using 33A PO into hover. It's second only to 1BA as the fastest shift into PO.

So again, it works best to use hover as an anticipatory whiff punish rather than a mix-up game IMHO. Even at mid to long range I sometimes like to throw it out if I feel like they're going to rush in like a dummy. It's high risk/high reward, but the payoff is huge: massive damage stun combo into mind games.

And of course if they're not sharp enough against your hover stance and they just freeze and hold block, it's a completely safe mix-up.
 
Taki Study discussion:

You have to use the fake hover carefully. For me, it has a very very specific purpose: anti-anti-hover. You can use the fake hover to bait an anti hover response, after which you are free to do PO B, or K or whatever. Due to the fact it relies on your opponent having such a move, it's kind of a character specific strat. As I said earlier, if you are getting Cervy 8A+K'd out of hover, you can use fake hover to bait a whiff.

The reason they will try to counter your hover, rather than turtle up and hold G, is because hover B takes a lot of soul damage. An opponent that can both react to the hover, and thinks they have read you, will simply try to counter it rather than eat the soul damage, or have to deal with the hover A/B mixup.

If, however, your opponent's anti-hover response trumps both fake and real hover (for example, Seig's 3B or something like that), then POSC, or your other options are best. In these situations, fake hover is far less useful and you will want to use the real hover exclusively.

Also, while using hover as a whiff punisher is sound, they have to whiff pretty hard to guarantee hover B, so they wind up blocking it (which is okay because of the SG damage). I mostly agree with OmegaXcn, however. 9/10 times you don't want to use fake hover because, well, it gains you like nothing.
 
Taki Study discussion:

Shinobi said:
Also, while using hover as a whiff punisher is sound, they have to whiff pretty hard to guarantee hover B, so they wind up blocking it (which is okay because of the SG damage).
Click to expand...

It'll land more often than you think. It just takes a whiffed AA or BB while you're performing hover for them to eat it.
 
Taki Study discussion:

OmegaXcn said:
It'll land more often than you think. It just takes a whiffed AA or BB while you're performing hover for them to eat it.
Click to expand...

I agree, if you are +frames this makes sense but usually somebody familiar with the matchup won't just AA/BB for fun; they know the risk is too high. So as a generic PO-killer, my comp will tend to 2A*. This means they (usually) recover in time.

But yeah, it'll definitely work some of the time, like if they are trying to cut down on my POSC.

*Incidentally, if you call the 2A, PO 214 also jumps 2As like a pro. They just whiffed, so odds are you won't be hit out of PO. For example, vs Taki: PO B after jumping your opponent's 2A with PO 214 beats FC 2A.
 
Taki Study discussion:

After last night, I've lost all faith in PO 236.

Against a certain good Taki, I could about 80-90% STK B+G him out of PO 236 (the Taki mirror match is stupid by the way). Against a certain pretty good Ivy, Maxi, Algol and Nightmare player, he can backdash away from PO 236 with 99% accuracy, getting out of range of both PO 236 A and PO 236 B, then coming in to punish quickly.
 
Taki Study discussion:

Its all in how you use it really like all PO moves. More effective on some characters than it is on others.

imo its just like anything else. Good placement is key
 
Taki Study discussion:

Mix in some mists and PO8wr. It's easy to dodge when they know it's coming.

Hmmm.. What do you guys use to punish whiffs? A6 WR B? Or do you just do your fav string into PO?

And umm... How the hell do you fight Ivy? I get destroyed. Her attacks are too weird.
 
Taki Study discussion:

Fight Ivy with patience and step. Or if she does something where she has disadvantage on block, respond with a windroll.
 
Taki Study discussion:

KoshTheKoala said:
After last night, I've lost all faith in PO 236.

Against a certain good Taki, I could about 80-90% STK B+G him out of PO 236 (the Taki mirror match is stupid by the way). Against a certain pretty good Ivy, Maxi, Algol and Nightmare player, he can backdash away from PO 236 with 99% accuracy, getting out of range of both PO 236 A and PO 236 B, then coming in to punish quickly.
Click to expand...

Its pretty much the same with Asta as well. He can easily air throw you when you try to hover him. The thing is, for characters you know that can counter Taki's hover options easily it is best to condition them first into freezing by using her other PO options or simply finishing her attack strings smartly. When they get hit enough times, chances are, they will freeze and give you enough time to attempt a hover attack.

Also situation wise, in a Taki vs Taki match, if you have your back towards the edge of the ring and noticed your opponent constantly air throws you out of hover, you can try to use a fake hover to tempt them to air throw you out of the ring... (with hilarious results if they take the bait)
 
Taki Study discussion:

PO236 should be used with care IMO. I've started maining Taki quite recently, but this is basically how I use Hover:

*Baiting your opponent to rush in or when you predict your opponent to attack (not often, because the opponent will otherwise be able to predict this move in no-time).

*When having advantage and keeping pressure on opponent.

I found it effective to mix PO236/PO214 when pressuring my opponent. Often, if your opponent react by backing off when Taki's about to Hover, you can most often hit them with a PO B_PO K by faking.

The only main problem I can see is if the opponent use a move that will hit you, no matter if you use PO214_PO236.

Hover's far from abusable, but great in certain situations IMO.
 
Taki Study discussion:

Possession said:
Hmmm.. What do you guys use to punish whiffs? A6 WR B? Or do you just do your fav string into PO?

And umm... How the hell do you fight Ivy? I get destroyed. Her attacks are too weird.
Click to expand...

A6 WR B is great for damage and when they whiff up close.

Ninja cannon is my favorite, although with the long start-up time, you really have to anticipate.

1BA PO soley to maintain frame advantage and pressure, as well as bait uninterruptable PO moves and mixing it up with PORC.

66B:A and 66A are great long range punishes.


As for Ivy, I only suggest to step a lot considering she has a lot of linear moves (especially her long range stuff), and know what moves she has out of what stance. Her whip stance is her worst, while her sword stance is pretty top tier in my opinion.
 
Taki Study discussion:

To learn to fight ivy you need to start recognizing her moves. taki has a hard time taking on a decent ivy because if she is in SW stance a lot of things and put you close up to her. alot of PO 22_88 works well against ivy in SW stance because of her linear move set.

I started to become a fan on all the fast A PO set ups (A+B~A PO) i think it adds another layer of confusion for the opponent who is just expecting the AB and 1BA set ups.

Also im having a hard time catching people with PORC 1BA like in the combo PO 236 B. 3bK. PORC 1BA etc. they keep falling down or i buffer too fast and Taki doesnt even run foward at all. any help on this simple timing?
 
Taki Study discussion:

Im pretty sure you hit the 1 and the B at the same time for that to work. If that doesn't work, try a different ending for that combo or keep practicing while waiting for some proffesional Taki help.
 
Taki Study discussion:

i mean i can PORC 1BA but i cant combo t after the 3bK
 
Taki Study discussion:

you have to input the 66 for POR early after 3bK 214 PO. You pretty much have to 3bK21466 and then learn the timing for the 1BA because it has to be done at the earliest possible moment.
 
Taki Study discussion:

The WS K,3bk PORC, 1BA combo is easy once you do it a couple of times. I also like doing the notation as mix-up outside of the combo (excluding the WS k of course).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back