Talim Patch Notes for next Patch

Skiegh

[04] Fighter
I'm interested to see what they do with her. I am also fine with taking nerfs to some of her sillier things like her RE shenanigans or maybe her super being so risk-free against characters without an aGI lethal to actually punish it (never use it against Sophie...). I could even see them nerfing 8B down to +0, even if I would hate it if they did. It is my love.

Her biggest issue for me right now is less the ability to get in and more the ability to stop people from retreating once she is. Staying in is a bit tricky. Specifically due to that spacing you can do against Talim where you can freely 8-way run her forever and she has no tracking mid to stop you from doing so. If she does a high, you can react with a block/crouch or a high crushing move. Even a lot of her high moves like 6A don't quite get far enough fast enough to stop people from just running away after certain moves. 66B is also not a backstep catcher as advertised, so maybe they'll touch the distance, or speed, or high/mid property of it.
 
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ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Her biggest issue for me right now is less the ability to get in and more the ability to stop people from retreating once she is. Staying in is a bit tricky. Specifically due to that spacing you can do against Talim where you can freely 8-way run her forever and she has no tracking mid to stop you from doing so. If she does a high, you can react with a block/crouch or a high crushing move. Even a lot of her high moves like 6A don't quite get far enough fast enough to stop people from just running away after certain moves. 66B is also not a backstep catcher as advertised, so maybe they'll touch the distance, or speed, or high/mid property of it.
There weren't any nerfs mentioned outside of removing the 6BB~WS A+B combo. Which is pretty dumb and definitely an oversight.

The ability to get in is exactly what you mentioned though. Staying in is far less of an issue than contesting neutral. Once you're in, she has a bunch of stuff to keep people from backwalking or sidewalking her. 66A, 44B, step forward and 2A, hell even AAB which jails on block, moves her forward and if the 2nd hit CHs you get the rest of the string free.

What I think they'll do is, either:
A. Make her forward/side movement speed slightly faster (it's pretty fast already),
B. Make 44B safer on block, (might be a pain for some characters if so)
or C. Possibly shave off a few frames on 66B (i22 to i20 perhaps? maybe even faster)

I can't really think of anything else that fits the description.
 

Frayhua

[14] Master
Talim's CE can now be cancelled into her stances after the opponent blocks 2 out of 3 hits when her CE is blocked. I guess that's the "Getting In" buff.
Wind Charmer BB is buffed while the delayed version is nerfed.

 

Skiegh

[04] Fighter
Just when I thought her super couldn't get more Yolo. Even going to be useful against Sophie now.

I see some sort of buff to 22B! Hurray, that move is useless, so I hope it does something useful now.

I hope they don't nerf Talim's WNC-B~B in anyway that hurts her combo routes. Not being able to do 66A+B into WNC-B~B for instance would really hurt her ability to safely confirm into damage. I suspect WNC-BB might do more damage, and WNC-B~B might not be able to natural combo on grounded opponents.

I assume 6BB is just the bug being removed. Also lists a buff with the arrow though, so I wonder what the compensation is.

Green usually means function change or something right? I'm worried what the change to what I believe is BT A+B is. They might consider it a buff to make BT A+B lethal against impact counters, but I'm not sure if I would prefer that or not. The counter lethal is pretty useful sometimes. Admittedly, it breaking GI/RE for a lot of damage would drastically improve the risk/reward of her normal avenues for going into a plus BT. It would however be worse for scramble-based situations where you are turned BT.

Also not sure what the buff to BT B+K ~ A+B would be.

That whole slew of buffs in the green section is so scattered with different moves that I don't know what it's referring to. Even has her unblockable in there. So maybe something stance related? BT related? Ability to choose to become BT or not?
 

ThalionPIR

[05] Battler
@Skiegh you probably missed the the translation from Okubo :

Talim patch.png


For CE, I see some kind of RO option, maybe CE 4 WNF BB?

Is WNC B:B considered as a delayed version?

Change to BT B+K, A+B is welcome, I often encountered the described issue.
 

speedking1254

[09] Warrior
@Skiegh you probably missed the the translation from Okubo :

View attachment 57922

For CE, I see some kind of RO option, maybe CE 4 WNF BB?

Is WNC B:B considered as a delayed version?

Change to BT B+K, A+B is welcome, I often encountered the described issue.
Why are they messing with wnc B.B that's her only guard break out of that move and it's needed if anyting it needs to give frame advantage it's retarded plus the only does 10% on a guard gauge not a lot.

I would rather they increase the tracking on a+b so that that tracks people on the ground because hitting people with it is hard when they can just roll out and you end up back turn
 

speedking1254

[09] Warrior
Does this mean that CE can now be used as a combo extender?
actually no it's a get out of jail free card if you use your ce and they block you can use that as a mix-up to scare'm basically.

And at the price of a bar you can use it to jumping in on your opponent because you can cancel the third hit and going to a stance so you can use it that way but I don't really like using it that way it doesn't make much sense to me
 
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speedking1254

[09] Warrior
Theoretically, that means you could do a combo such as LH WNF B:B~CE6~WNS (K)~A,A,A+B.
No actually I think we misunderstood it because you can only cancel it after the second hit so it stops you from getting GI on the 3rd so what it is a mix up to save yourself.

It's more like ce to jump in then as you're hitting the guard they have 2 options.
1.Let the go ce and don't challenge it
2. Challenge the CE and try to guard in pact

Which leaves you with a few options you can go into wnf and go for wind canning which is worse than taking the CE because when canning does more damage
 

Thylacine492

[02] Apprentice
No actually I think we misunderstood it because you can only cancel it after the second hit so it stops you from getting GI on the 3rd so what it is a mix up to save yourself.

It's more like ce to jump in then as you're hitting the guard they have 2 options.
1.Let the go ce and don't challenge it
2. Challenge the CE and try to guard in pact

Which leaves you with a few options you can go into wnf and go for wind canning which is worse than taking the CE because when canning does more damage
The chain of thought I'm following is that since all three hits are needed to start the cinematic against airborne opponents, it would make sense that you would be able to connect the first two hits before transitioning to WNS for potential follow-ups.
 

Skiegh

[04] Fighter
@Skiegh you probably missed the the translation from Okubo :
Ah, good. Yeah, I don't think that was out when I stumbled over it.

--

Seems the patch is mostly just bug fixes, some of which I did notice.

--

CE: I imagine the guard break numbers are now more like 5%/5%/5% instead of 10%/2%/10% or whatever it was before. With the ability to switch into stance after the second hit, I imagine you can do some pretty crazy forced guard break situations now, which is good because breaking guard with her CE had a lot of scaling. May possibly be new ways to combo from the CE as well, maybe. This move is now just a complete "I want in" card now, which is going to be a little silly, but certainly gives her more of a use for her super now. Now when using it as a tech trap, even if it doesn't hit, you still get more pressure. So sticking to people with meter is going to be a lot easier.

Behavior 1: I assume this is just a bug fix where Talim could ring herself out more easily. Considering she has a better ability to ring herself out than her opponent, I guess that's good.

Behavior 2: I did notice BT A+B could whiff sometimes up close, so I'm glad that's fixed. I didn't enjoy being Astaroth while BT.

22_88B: Eh... tracking, really? The move is still worse than just doing any of her other options if you stepped a move. I guess it might be selectively useful against attacks which move a lot, but considering 3Bs universally received buffs to whiffed tracking, eh...

B+K~A+B: Oh, thank god. Another bug fix I noticed a lot. This was a regular occurrence against good players, so now they will hopefully get stuck blocking if they get up against this move, as it should be.

WNC-BB: Sounds like it's mostly just going to gain more advantage on hit. Still not sure why I would opt for this over the delayed version. Save for the delayed version's ability to be stepped now, it seems. The reduced blockstun on the first hit is likely to create a gap where people could try stepping the changed WNC-B~B version.

WNC-B~B: Damage nerf! That sort of blows, but this move was usually the combo ender, so hopefully not a huge issue. On stun combos, you could do WNC-BB to launch them higher anyway, so that may be the better option now if this scales too hard. It being able to be stepped seems unnecessary, but, it's just another situation where Talim is putting you in a "mix-up." People can step it, but if you do WNC-BB, the second hit will counter-hit and launch them -- I hope. This is a pretty pointless change, and I'm sort of confused as to why they touched WNC-B, as it is one of her slowest options from WNC, and she only has a few ways where she can ever safely go into it.

6BB: No more dumb combo. Seems they just made it so you can block high during the last few frames of stun, which is... a very arbitrary solution to fix this, but okay. So I assume frame advantage for other mix-ups are mostly the same. So this will likely remain one of her only ways to go into WNC-B safely on hit. That said, they also increased the distance on hit, which might bring it more in line with how it was before? Hopefully she is now at a range where both her WNC and WNS options work effectively. And, hopefully, this does not screw up her new 6BB counter-hit combos in to WNS-(K). This change has the potential to fuck over a lot of things, or be rather nice.

Reading it more, it actually says it does MORE hitstun on hit. So perhaps you can do some real WNS mix-ups on hit, which is nice. Damage buff to the first hit is likely to offset the lost combo. Probably be hitting 40ish damage with this, which ain't bad at all. 1st hit... now hits grounded opponents? If so, Talim just got another option in her long list of Oki buttons. Could probably clip people on the ground with the first hit and force them to get up to the charged version. Not bad.

---

Nothing really game changing here. Mostly just bug fixes and things to hopefully increase Talim's consistency. In-fact, you could make the argument she got nerfed more than buffed in this patch despite all the buff arrows. Though the CE change will be stupid, depending on how plus the stance transitions are. Mostly the same character for me as she was last patch. 6BB changes to distance and WNC-BB/B~B are the only things which may cause problems.
 

speedking1254

[09] Warrior
The chain of thought I'm following is that since all three hits are needed to start the cinematic against airborne opponents, it would make sense that you would be able to connect the first two hits before transitioning to WNS for potential follow-ups.
From what I read it says starting after the second hit so if you hit somebody while they're standing it automatically goes into the cinematic .

You can maybe use it if they're on the ground because the second hit picks them up

It would be different if you can cancel it after the first hit
 

speedking1254

[09] Warrior
Ah, good. Yeah, I don't think that was out when I stumbled over it.

--

Seems the patch is mostly just bug fixes, some of which I did notice.

--

CE: I imagine the guard break numbers are now more like 5%/5%/5% instead of 10%/2%/10% or whatever it was before. With the ability to switch into stance after the second hit, I imagine you can do some pretty crazy forced guard break situations now, which is good because breaking guard with her CE had a lot of scaling. May possibly be new ways to combo from the CE as well, maybe. This move is now just a complete "I want in" card now, which is going to be a little silly, but certainly gives her more of a use for her super now. Now when using it as a tech trap, even if it doesn't hit, you still get more pressure. So sticking to people with meter is going to be a lot easier.

Behavior 1: I assume this is just a bug fix where Talim could ring herself out more easily. Considering she has a better ability to ring herself out than her opponent, I guess that's good.

Behavior 2: I did notice BT A+B could whiff sometimes up close, so I'm glad that's fixed. I didn't enjoy being Astaroth while BT.

22_88B: Eh... tracking, really? The move is still worse than just doing any of her other options if you stepped a move. I guess it might be selectively useful against attacks which move a lot, but considering 3Bs universally received buffs to whiffed tracking, eh...

B+K~A+B: Oh, thank god. Another bug fix I noticed a lot. This was a regular occurrence against good players, so now they will hopefully get stuck blocking if they get up against this move, as it should be.

WNC-BB: Sounds like it's mostly just going to gain more advantage on hit. Still not sure why I would opt for this over the delayed version. Save for the delayed version's ability to be stepped now, it seems. The reduced blockstun on the first hit is likely to create a gap where people could try stepping the changed WNC-B~B version.

WNC-B~B: Damage nerf! That sort of blows, but this move was usually the combo ender, so hopefully not a huge issue. On stun combos, you could do WNC-BB to launch them higher anyway, so that may be the better option now if this scales too hard. It being able to be stepped seems unnecessary, but, it's just another situation where Talim is putting you in a "mix-up." People can step it, but if you do WNC-BB, the second hit will counter-hit and launch them -- I hope. This is a pretty pointless change, and I'm sort of confused as to why they touched WNC-B, as it is one of her slowest options from WNC, and she only has a few ways where she can ever safely go into it.

6BB: No more dumb combo. Seems they just made it so you can block high during the last few frames of stun, which is... a very arbitrary solution to fix this, but okay. So I assume frame advantage for other mix-ups are mostly the same. So this will likely remain one of her only ways to go into WNC-B safely on hit. That said, they also increased the distance on hit, which might bring it more in line with how it was before? Hopefully she is now at a range where both her WNC and WNS options work effectively. And, hopefully, this does not screw up her new 6BB counter-hit combos in to WNS-(K). This change has the potential to fuck over a lot of things, or be rather nice.

Reading it more, it actually says it does MORE hitstun on hit. So perhaps you can do some real WNS mix-ups on hit, which is nice. Damage buff to the first hit is likely to offset the lost combo. Probably be hitting 40ish damage with this, which ain't bad at all. 1st hit... now hits grounded opponents? If so, Talim just got another option in her long list of Oki buttons. Could probably clip people on the ground with the first hit and force them to get up to the charged version. Not bad.

---

Nothing really game changing here. Mostly just bug fixes and things to hopefully increase Talim's consistency. In-fact, you could make the argument she got nerfed more than buffed in this patch despite all the buff arrows. Though the CE change will be stupid, depending on how plus the stance transitions are. Mostly the same character for me as she was last patch. 6BB changes to distance and WNC-BB/B~B are the only things which may cause problems.
I think we both came to the same conclusion (with bugs being fixed) but a little differently how I look at it is her WNC b.b they basically did nothing(move was useless beforehand useless now) and they basically killed WNC B~B because that was her only way of keeping someone still to start her offense and they just killed it so what they did was give us a better super but they took a crucial tool so they basically rebalance the character but I look at it more of a loss because even before you do your super you need to have meter is more of a horse before the cart thing
 
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ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
No actually I think we misunderstood it because you can only cancel it after the second hit so it stops you from getting GI on the 3rd so what it is a mix up to save yourself.
Actually it's very possible you can do the combo as @Thylacine492 said. It's also very possible that if the 2nd hit of CE guard crushes, you may get a LH cannon out of it. It doesn't specify that the stance cancel only works on guarding the CE. Just that you can cancel after the 2nd hit.
 

speedking1254

[09] Warrior
Actually it's very possible you can do the combo as @Thylacine492 said. It's also very possible that if the 2nd hit of CE guard crushes, you may get a LH cannon out of it. It doesn't specify that the stance cancel only works on guarding the CE. Just that you can cancel after the 2nd hit.
Okay that would mean they rework the whole thing completely which would be if the CE hit there is no cinematic show which don't make sense.
 
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ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Okay that would mean they rework the whole thing completely which would be if the CE hit there is no cinematic show which don't make sense.
If you hit CE in juggles you get all 3 hits before the cinematic. For example do 236B and then CE. If I'm right, that means you could do 236B~CE~6~WNS A+B or something for massive RO potential.