Talim Patch Notes for next Patch

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ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Not sure exactly when the patch goes live. But there's some changes coming for the entire cast, and Talim included. Here's the link to the notes:
https://en.bandainamcoent.eu/soulcalibur/news/soulcalibur-vi-update-v110-patch-notes?utm_source=SM_official&utm_medium=official_post&utm_campaign=SC6_patch1_10&fbclid=IwAR3tsAZOn9K7i_8gTowcVn0DhCyoFBxuGthvBbh9KyO79SxAzuhX_moOkcM

PDF file: https://d1vtv52f4vjbmu.cloudfront.net/games/soulcalibur6/patch-dlc2/dlc2_battle-adjustment-list_en.pdf?utm_source=Direct

For those who just want the Talim specifics:
Yellow = Buff
Red = Nerf
Blue = Glitches
Neutral color = System Change


- While Running A+K. Added a new input for Training Mode Only.
This is the Low Health Slide input to practice Lethal Hits with since health bars can't be lowered. Only works in training mode.

- A,A,B: Fixed an issue in which certain inputs would cause the 1st hit to register as a combo when used as a CH.
Nerf, lol. This means the A,A,a+b,B glitch is now gone. As I expected it to be.

+ A,A,A+B: Increased the moves Base Damage.
This is to make up for the loss of the CH AA glitch, I imagine.

+ 3B: Fixed an issue where the attack could miss a downed opponent.
Probably fixes the character specific issue in combos where 3B wouldn't always work. Maybe it works on everyone now?

+ 6A,K: Reduced the distance between the character and the opponent when the 1st hit is guarded. Reduced the opening after the 2nd hit is guarded. Granted the attack the ability to down the opponent when used as a normal hit. Added scaling to the move's combo damage.
So this is basically a buff. Makes 6A,K into a NH Knockdown. The combo scaling is to prevent big damage after the knockdown...? Maybe you get a 3B here or something. Also seems to have made this move safer. Maybe it's safe period. If so, this is now a decent punish tool/hit confirm.

+ 6B,B: Changed the move to a combo when the 1st hit is a normal hit. Increased the length of stun inflicted when guarded. Reduced the distance between the character and the opponent when the move hits. Added scaling to the move's combo damage.
HUGE Buff. From what this is saying, 6BB is a Natural Combo now and safer on block. This is perfect for her as she now has a Mid hitting Momentum starter as a block/whiff punish. Combo damage scaling is probably in regards to her LH combos.

+ 4B,A: Changed hit behavior to make it harder to miss when hitting with the tip of the weapon.
Guess this means 4BA is a better punisher now at tip range.

+ 3A: Reduced the opening after attack is guarded.
Seems like this move is safer now. Maybe it's plus on block now like 66K. Still leaves you in BT, but it's a buff regardless

+ 1A+B: Reduced the opening after attack is guarded.
Seems like this move is safer now. Not sure if totally safe though.

- 6(A+B): Added scaling to the move's combo damage.
First big nerf of the patch. Probably to make sure her LH combos aren't doing as much damage as they do now. Also coincides with the 6BB scaling adjustment

+ BT B: Reduced the opening after attack is guarded.
Seems like this move is safer now. Depending on HOW much safer, this could be pretty big too.

Stance Changes
+ Wind Charmer B,B: Reduced the opening after attack is guarded.
Seems like this move is safer now. Not a move used very much, but nice anyway.

+ Wind Charmer B delayed B: Increased the stun inflicted when guarded.
This SOUNDS like WNC B:B and WNC B~B Guard Breaks make her plus on block now, instead of being -4 like before. If so, this is great news.

+ Wind Charmer K: Reduced the opening after attack is guarded.
Seems like this move is gonna be safe to everyone now, as it was still punishable by some at -10. Also could make it able to beat everyone's RE by allowing you to step after it's parried? We'll see.

+ Wind Sault A: Increased the attacks tracking.
People can't just step or tech away from the entire WNS stance now. Maybe this will give her new tech traps? Either way, this move needed to be better at catching step and now it supposedly will be.

- Wind Sault B: Changed mid air hit behavior:
I honestly don't know what this means, but it's a nerf. I'm thinking this is to prevent her from getting a guaranteed WNF K after certain launchers like 66A+B. or even FC 3BB at times. Hopefully this isn't as big of a nerf as it sounds right now, but...

- Wind Sault K: Follow-up attacks you can shift to upon hit can now be input before the attack makes contact. Fixed an issue in which you could use certain inputs to shift to a Wind Sault regardless of whether the attack made contact.
So... I dunno exactly what this is. But what this SOUNDS like, is that they removed the WNS K:G JF. Or, at least, removed the ability to do WNS K:G on whiff. Maybe she can still do it on block? Will need to be tested on patch day.



Anyway, that's all. Lots of changes to lots of characters. Gonna be a whole different game pretty soon. Overall, I feel like Talim is stronger, but we'll have to see what her optimal combos are gonna be like now. 6BB being safer AND NC is huge. 6AK is a much better punish now. BT B safer. etc. We'll see what happens.
 
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Thylacine492

[05] Battler
It’ll be interesting to see what the altered attack properties are (and if they’re actually useful).

What I’m looking forward to is the 6BB buff.
 

Skiegh

[04] Fighter
Whelp, I'm glad I never implemented the AAA+BB glitch into my game. Was waiting for the first patch for this very reason. I honestly didn't even know the WNS K~G one was a bug. I thought it was some old school Talim thing. *Shrugs*

Thoughts:

AAA+B: I expect at most it'll go from 47 to 52 or so. Which is not awful. Still negative on block, but now a bit more worth going all-in on if the trade off is better.

6AK: This is an interesting one, because I hear knockdown and I think of the potential for this to actually ring out. Now this is Talim, so I know it won't, it'll just be some sort of slide knockdown like everything else, but maybe she has some sort of combo afterwards. Not a bad buff, if only because right now AK is almost sure to whiff. A lot of players are getting in the habit of ducking after 6A so I am glad I will have a way to bait that out now.

6BB: That's real nice. That move is really good just for the counter hit, truth be told I've never even tested much with it's normal hit properties, but it's a pretty safe stance cancel. Easy to confirm WNF or WNC depending on block or hit, so that's nice. This and 6AK give her a better (and easier) 18i punish game, as opposed to doing 44K

3A: If this is worded such that it means safer on block, then that's kinda crazy. It's already only -2, if you make it 0 or plus, she can start to run BT shenanigans for free. I think she needs to be at least +3 to be able to threaten in BT at all with a 2A turn steal, but even that would be neat, if not a bit much. I imagine this is just to make stealing turns with high or low crush more possible, but you can you do that anyway, so... *shrugs* I imagine it'll be +0.

1A+B: Probably going to go from -16 to -14. Not a bad thing at all. If they improve the damage of AAA+B, which is the counter hit follow-up for this really, then it's going to be slightly more rewarding as well.

WNC~BB: Probably going from -18 to -16 or -14. Since this move is so slow to come out, it's rare to hit with it outside of a combo, but still nice. Usually never go for the none delayed version.

WNC~K: -10 to -8, I assume. To stop Raph players from eating your soul.

BT~B: Praise be, the move that makes BT so damn scary is now improving even more in risk reward, fantastic. Probably -18 now, which puts it out of most launch punishers. More than okay with that, this move is pretty core to my way of playing Talim. Crouch me... please, I dare you.

WNC~B~B: Prooobably going to make this +2~+4 on block. It is one of the few negative guard breaks in the game. I am okay with that. Depending on the amount it becomes plus, this is either a pointless or good change. If it's plus enough to counter-hit with 6A against 12is or something, that'll be good. The pushback makes only long range moves viable for this, but hey, I'll take it.

WNC~A: Thank god, it tracks. This is nice if only because it solidifies the OS people will likely be using against Talim's WNS, which is to step~jump, which beats all options. That limits their punish options if they want to play smart at least.

6A+B: I am indifferent. I didn't use this too much, since it required a read to do anyway, and I can (could maybe now) get almost as much damage off of a step 66A+B launch. Still a shame though. Her lethals are poop.

WNS~B: Uh oh, no more WNF~K follow-ups. That's a shame because there is nothing else you could get off of this either. Only through the stance shift do you recover fast enough to do anything. Got to extend with WNS~K everytime now, it would seem.

---

Overall, I'm pretty okay with all of these changes. She gained a lot more than she lost, that's for sure. Nothing too game changing, but that's fine, she wasn't super weak, but I do think she was somewhere in the lower half of the list. 6BB NC might be the biggest thing in here. Also 3B hitting all grounded opponents is also going to be super nice. She's less of a powerhouse but is a bit safer, it would seem. Overall just making her more pesky.

Still no change to that horrible aGI. Give it a use or remove it!
 
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ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Whelp, I'm glad I never implemented the AAA+BB glitch into my game. Was waiting for the first patch for this very reason. I honestly didn't even know the WNS K~G one was a bug. I thought it was some old school Talim thing. *Shrugs*

Thoughts:

AAA+B: I expect at most it'll go from 47 to 52 or so. Which is not awful. Still negative on block, but now a bit more worth going all-in on if the trade off is better.

6AK: This is an interesting one, because I hear knockdown and I think of the potential for this to actually ring out. Now this is Talim, so I know it won't, it'll just be some sort of slide knockdown like everything else, but maybe she has some sort of combo afterwards. Not a bad buff, if only because right now AK is almost sure to whiff. A lot of players are getting in the habit of ducking after 6A so I am glad I will have a way to bait that out now.

6BB: That's real nice. That move is really good just for the counter hit, truth be told I've never even tested much with it's normal hit properties, but it's a pretty safe stance cancel. Easy to confirm WNF or WNC depending on block or hit, so that's nice. This and 6AK give her a better (and easier) 18i punish game, as opposed to doing 44K

3A: If this is worded such that it means safer on block, then that's kinda crazy. It's already only -2, if you make it 0 or plus, she can start to run BT shenanigans for free. I think she needs to be at least +3 to be able to threaten in BT at all with a 2A turn steal, but even that would be neat, if not a bit much. I imagine this is just to make stealing turns with high or low crush more possible, but you can you do that anyway, so... *shrugs* I imagine it'll be +0.

1A+B: Probably going to go from -16 to -14. Not a bad thing at all. If they improve the damage of AAA+B, which is the counter hit follow-up for this really, then it's going to be slightly more rewarding as well.

WNC~BB: Probably going from -18 to -16 or -14. Since this move is so slow to come out, it's rare to hit with it outside of a combo, but still nice. Usually never go for the none delayed version.

WNC~K: -10 to -8, I assume. To stop Raph players from eating your soul.

BT~B: Praise be, the move that makes BT so damn scary is now improving even more in risk reward, fantastic. Probably -18 now, which puts it out of most launch punishers. More than okay with that, this move is pretty core to my way of playing Talim. Crouch me... please, I dare you.

WNC~B~B: Prooobably going to make this +2~+4 on block. It is one of the few negative guard breaks in the game. I am okay with that. Depending on the amount it becomes plus, this is either a pointless or good change. If it's plus enough to counter-hit with 6A against 12is or something, that'll be good. The pushback makes only long range moves viable for this, but hey, I'll take it.

WNC~A: Thank god, it tracks. This is nice if only because it solidifies the OS people will likely be using against Talim's WNS, which is to step~jump, which beats all options. That limits their punish options if they want to play smart at least.

6A+B: I am indifferent. I didn't use this too much, since it required a read to do anyway, and I can (could maybe now) get almost as much damage off of a step 66A+B launch. Still a shame though. Her lethals are poop.

WNS~B: Uh oh, no more WNF~K follow-ups. That's a shame because there is nothing else you could get off of this either. Only through the stance shift do you recover fast enough to do anything. Got to extend with WNS~K everytime now, it would seem.

---

Overall, I'm pretty okay with all of these changes. She gained a lot more than she lost, that's for sure. Nothing too game changing, but that's fine, she wasn't super weak, but I do think she was somewhere in the lower half of the list. 6BB NC might be the biggest thing in here. Also 3B hitting all grounded opponents is also going to be super nice. She's less of a powerhouse but is a bit safer, it would seem. Overall just making her more pesky.

Still no change to that horrible aGI. Give it a use or remove it!
Yeah I didn't mention that part, but A,A,A+B will probably be more damage than 4B,B in combos now. But I'm sure it's still air controllable somewhere in there. 4B,B is better oki. But now if you want raw damage you can go for this and use 4B,B otherwise.

6A,K was a hit confirm before, but only knocked down if you got a CH with 2nd hit only. Now it's always a knockdown, and likely gives at least a 1K or maybe a 3B after. Good move now. Maybe her main stepkill with the AA glitch gone.

BT B would need to be safer than -18, LOL. That's not even a buff in that case. Still launchable. I could see -14 or -16 for this.
1A+B I could see being even safer. This is a move that's really only dangerous as a LH. I imagine -14 for it but could be as safe as -12, like her 3B.

And the WNS K:G thing existed in SC4 and SC4 Broken Destiny. And it was brought back for this game. Crazy to think that this bug kept recurring over all these years. This is the first game where you could do more than ONE though. So it could potentially get silly.
 

D_Matt_Ma

[10] Knight
Is there a point to WNS B with the nerf outside soul charge? Not a fan of the canned string buff as it’s all in for not enough reward in my opinion. Juggle finisher I guess. I can’t believe I’m still stuck on Talim because Tira got shafted in the patch.
 

CrazyYoshimitsu

[10] Knight
These buffs have her knocking on the door of top 10. She still does good damage but we need to see what the scaling changes. 6A+B does 43 on LH so it is drops to 40 or 39 that is still good damage.
 

Dr_Tom

[09] Warrior
Patch looks to be live on PC so here's what I've tested and found. Scuffle doesn't work with the patch it seems so this was tested by recording moves and finding what works if anything.

3A looks to be 0 on block now.
WC K looks to be -8, down from -10
WCB:B looks to be 0, down from -4
WC BB looks to be -12, maybe -13(punishable by Talim's AA but not BB), down from -18
6AK looks to be -12, maybe -13(punishable by Talim's AA but not BB), down from -14, new stun looks like a crumple stun so no ring out from it.
BT B is SUPER SAFE! like -8 or -9(down from -20!!!!!!) I think. Raph can't 6BB it but he can CE it.
1A+B looks to be -12, maybe -13(punishable by Talim's AA but not BB), down from -16
AAA+B went from 8,10,15,20 damage to 8,10,20,20
6BB looks to be about -16,(Talim can 4AK it) down from -20
Looks like WS B no longer spikes to the ground, so no more WF K follow up, but WS K to WS B is super easy now(not that it was exactly hard before).
 
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Skiegh

[04] Fighter
Dude, the fact that BT B is safe on block is absolutely ridiculous. The risk reward on that move is now hugely in your favor. That's SUPER good. 100% so far the most lucrative buff for my playstyle of choice.

6BB is also really nice, as you can essentially do whatever stance mix-up you want from it and it's a frame trap, which is great. However, the pushback change to it's second hit makes it much more punishable on block even with stance cancels. Likewise, the pushback change makes combo routes from this move rather different on counter-hit. You now can go for WNS (K) follow-ups as you will generally go over them from this move now. About 70 damage depending on what you want to do afterwards. So not bad.

6AK still has the same knockdown on counterhit which can ringout, but the regular hit is a falling stun. I feel like you can delay the 6AK even more now, but maybe I'm crazy. Granted I never messed with the move much but boy you can delay super long before doing the K. Doesn't have any further combo extensions, but you do get oki.

66A+B combos into WNS: B stuff -- whelp, as expected, aerial hits against opponents no longer send them sliding, so you can't do WNF K into follow-ups. Quite a bit of damage and oki stuff lost as a result, so that's a bummer.

6(A+B): Damage is nerfed, for sure. This is especially noticeable when doing close-up combos into WNC and such. With the 6BB changes, you can just do... 6(A+B)~6BB~WNS(K)~4BB and other such enders. Hits around 85. Not quite the 100 or so it was, but eh.

44B no longer lethals against special-lows. I believe it did before. So no more baiting out 2As.

4B: Now sucks the opponent further in on hit. Seems to be what they were talking about with the "tip" range thing. Doesn't seem to suck them in on block, which is good, as you can just 2A her after 4B every time anyway.

1A+B: Seems to be -12

AAA+B: Seems to be 51 damage on counter now, from... 47 I think. Nothing major. Seems to be -14 on block.

AAA+AB: Is indeed patched out.

JF WNS-K-g: Is indeed patched out.

1K: Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like it pushes back more on hit.

WNS-A: Seems like unless you go under her, she's pretty much going to track you now. This is hard to test though outside of just playing matches, I find. Need a lot of character experimentation.

--

Seems pretty nice to me so far.

Talim is top 8 period this boost her to 4-5
I disagree about pre-patch Talim being top 8. Not due to her being bad, but due to there being too many other characters I felt had so much better gameplans with a lot better risk-reward. Talim becoming safer with more avenues for consistent damage helps out her risk reward quite a bit, so she's definitely going from lower half to upper half of the tier list, for sure. Although, there are other character changes to consider, but quite a few of those also benefit her in rising up more. Course we have a second patch to consider soon too.

Best character in this patch is probably going to be Yoshi, if I'm being honest. He was already nuts.
 
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Thylacine492

[05] Battler
I’m content with most of the changes I’ve seen thus far. It seems like the 6BB buff just made her WNS K:G JF combo easier to do while taking away the high execution and the higher reward.
 

speedking1254

[09] Warrior
Dude, the fact that BT B is safe on block is absolutely ridiculous. The risk reward on that move is now hugely in your favor. That's SUPER good. 100% so far the most lucrative buff for my playstyle of choice.

6BB is also really nice, as you can essentially do whatever stance mix-up you want from it and it's a frame trap, which is great. However, the pushback change to it's second hit makes it much more punishable on block even with stance cancels. Likewise, the pushback change makes combo routes from this move rather different on counter-hit. You now can go for WNS (K) follow-ups as you will generally go over them from this move now. About 70 damage depending on what you want to do afterwards. So not bad.

6AK still has the same knockdown on counterhit which can ringout, but the regular hit is a falling stun. I feel like you can delay the 6AK even more now, but maybe I'm crazy. Granted I never messed with the move much but boy you can delay super long before doing the K. Doesn't have any further combo extensions, but you do get oki.

66A+B combos into WNS: B stuff -- whelp, as expected, aerial hits against opponents no longer send them sliding, so you can't do WNF K into follow-ups. Quite a bit of damage and oki stuff lost as a result, so that's a bummer.

6(A+B): Damage is nerfed, for sure. This is especially noticeable when doing close-up combos into WNC and such. With the 6BB changes, you can just do... 6(A+B)~6BB~WNS(K)~4BB and other such enders. Hits around 85. Not quite the 100 or so it was, but eh.

44B no longer lethals against special-lows. I believe it did before. So no more baiting out 2As.

4B: Now sucks the opponent further in on hit. Seems to be what they were talking about with the "tip" range thing. Doesn't seem to suck them in on block, which is good, as you can just 2A her after 4B every time anyway.

1A+B: Seems to be -12

AAA+B: Seems to be 51 damage on counter now, from... 47 I think. Nothing major. Seems to be -14 on block.

AAA+AB: Is indeed patched out.

JF WNS-K-g: Is indeed patched out.

1K: Maybe I'm crazy but I feel like it pushes back more on hit.

WNS-A: Seems like unless you go under her, she's pretty much going to track you now. This is hard to test though outside of just playing matches, I find. Need a lot of character experimentation.

--

Seems pretty nice to me so far.



I disagree about pre-patch Talim being top 8. Not due to her being bad, but due to there being too many other characters I felt had so much better gameplans with a lot better risk-reward. Talim becoming safer with more avenues for consistent damage helps out her risk reward quite a bit, so she's definitely going from lower half to upper half of the tier list, for sure. Although, there are other character changes to consider, but quite a few of those also benefit her in rising up more. Course we have a second patch to consider soon too.

Best character in this patch is probably going to be Yoshi, if I'm being honest. He was already nuts.
Yea Yoshi be get a higher and who do you think has a better overall game that you will put in a top 8
 

CrazyYoshimitsu

[10] Knight
I can verify a few things.

WNC BB is -12 i thought -14 but i read up.
WNS K is -8
WNC B:B is plus it's not neutral.
3A is plus too.
BT B is stupid safe so -8 or -9 may be right that is huge and a good thing.
1A+B -12
 

Skiegh

[04] Fighter
Yea Yoshi be get a higher and who do you think has a better overall game that you will put in a top 8
Hmm... I'm sad the old patch version got altered so quickly. Takes awhile for tiers and such to settle in, but since that era is essentially gone, I suppose making a tier list of how I felt the tiers were looking doesn't hurt. Uh, let's see... if you were going to force me to come up with a linear tier list, it would probably be...

- Azwel
- Ivy
- Yoshi
- Mina
- Groh
- Raphael
- Nightmare
- Zas
- Sophie
- Geralt
- Sieg
- Kilik
- Talim
- X
- Voldo
- Maxi
- Cervy
- Mitsu
- Taki
- Astaroth
- Tira

Important to note that a lot of these characters are pretty damn close in terms of power, I'd say. There's really only 4 or so big divides among the tiers, I'd say. 5, actually, since I think Azwel was in a league of his own, and Ivy and Yoshi also had their own league. I also admit to having no idea where to place Zas because I never see that god damn character. On paper he seems good though.

Game wasn't too badly balanced for it's first outing, I feel. Even though Astaroth players think he's bad, I still think that character is insane. And Raph players down play the crap out of that character.

Talim was good, but I base her lower than the rest just because I feel like once you knew her stuff, she wasn't very threatening. Now there is bias in the sense that I know the character better than all of the others, but I can count the number of times I lost to a Talim in a set on one hand (god dammit WindCharmer). I just found her so unthreatening.

My analysis...


She cheap.
My prior review of her was that she was top 5 in back turned and bottom 5 in front (you obviously need both, cause front turned had way better oki, while BT had way better risk reward (even better now). Now she is a bit cheap in front turned with 6BB, which I feel is a little nuts, but we shall see. I actually expect it to be altered so you can't do WNS A+B combos out of it, cause that shit is nutso damage. You do just as if not more damage NC than NCC.
 
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