Talim Q&A / General Discussion

Krokpot

[08] Mercenary
wow, still playing talim and while my win percentage is low with her still, I LOVE THIS CHARACTER! lol I know she's ranked low and I know its an uphill battle with her but oh man is she a blast to keep moving. my only issue is Im getting repetitive with FC 3b~6_4 alot looking for openings and my friends are getting aware of her options and theirs during her transitions which is making me play a little more safe with her. Ive started to use 6k and 6b more for stuns and transition into BT. my friends still miss stun shakes often and im going to abuse them on it till they get it down.

after bt ive been going 2k or just b to fish for the CH stun or sweep transition into FC 3b~6_4. is BT a+k b+k (i think thats the notation.. bla at work.. cant remember exactly, the jump into guardbreak) a viable option once they begin to turtle here? after the guardbreak is a throw almost guaranteed if they dont tech or crouch or only vs certian characters?

need more mixups i think.. like I said, i feel like im getting stuck in the same rotations of moves which means i need to add new stuff.

still trying to work in 236 b, and I keep getting smacked out of it or its blocked.. im trying to buffer it while guarding so it comes out immediately after guard frames but my timing on it is garbage so far.

does she have a long range step killer? Im finding difficulty countering step from distance other than AS a+b which I think tracks step to a moderate degree.

Ive also just started being able to pull off Ice Wind Combo in matches but I'm unsure where to work it in... guess I need to hit the wiki and learn its frames.. ugh.. i suck at frames still.. HA! I still play way too reckless.
 

ZONG_one

[09] Warrior
She is indeed a blast. By far THE BEST CHARACTER IN THE GAME. (<- Biased opinion) -_-

work the ice wind combo in:

Here: 8:B:,:K:,:B:+:K:,:A:+:B:,:A:+:B:,236:A:,236:B:

It's kinda hard to catch with the ice wind after the GB, but it will catch and lift them back up.
Watch this, at 0:40 seconds you'll see the combo:

or this might be easier. stun with 3:B:,:A:, then with BT :A:+:B:,236:A:,236:B:

There's a few more ways to use it without being too reckless.
...or you can just throw it out there and hope it hits?
XD button mashers FTW.
 

Krokpot

[08] Mercenary
ho ho! lol last night I actually got my friends conditioned to block low on BT 2k, then switched to BT b, which they adjusted to after a few rotations, THEN I finally got BT b+k, a+b, (guard) chain throw off in a match! first for me.. ive not been able to actually get the entire rotation off before.. now its all mixup shennanigans (sp) when in BT.

I was in practice and BT b+k, a+b hit as an unblockable once.. only once.. ive been unable to recreate it and have been unable to locate any unblockable properties in her moves lists for BT b+k, a+b.. am I missing someithing or is it only in certian situations? just checking.

so much fun.

After AS a, ive been transitioning to WC aa for a 3 hit. Is there something more efficient dmg wise?


Turning Kali Strikes are -18 on guard and Turning Kali Strikes from WC is +12 on guard (per wiki info)

Here is a question, does the above information mean that if im in WC and I use a,a, then its -18 on guard, but switches to +12 when guarded if I transition to WC again? I seem to get punished a lot after the a,a if I transition to WC so im not sure I understand the notations. Any insights?

Sry for the newb frame questions, trying to really understand and use frame data as opposed to just yomi and “feel”, which is how I pretty much play now.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
To do the unblockable version, you hold B+K for two jumps before pressing A+B from BT.

After AS A, there's no other guaranteed followup other than WC AA. On CH AS A gives you WC AAB guaranteed.

I think what the wiki is saying is that you get better frames on guard if you continue into WC. This is true for pretty much all the stance transition attacks, since if you didn't get any +frames it would be impossible to avoid punishment from anything. The stances were meant to force people into whiffing retaliations, even though sadly, they don't always work properly...

WC AA on it's own is -18. (You can kinda tell it's unsafe since she has an obvious pause afterward.) The +12 on guard for WC AA~WC is supposed to allow you to have enough frames to WC around vertical punishers. You can still be hit out of WC if your move was blocked because even when you have +12, the opponent can still use a faster move than anything from WC.
 

ZONG_one

[09] Warrior
WC AA on it's own is -18. (You can kinda tell it's unsafe since she has an obvious pause afterward.) The +12 on guard for WC AA~WC is supposed to allow you to have enough frames to WC around vertical punishers. You can still be hit out of WC if your move was blocked because even when you have +12, the opponent can still use a faster move than anything from WC.

I have a love/hate relationship with WC.

and WL... for that matter..
 

Krokpot

[08] Mercenary
To do the unblockable version, you hold B+K for two jumps before pressing A+B from BT.

After AS A, there's no other guaranteed followup other than WC AA. On CH AS A gives you WC AAB guaranteed.

I think what the wiki is saying is that you get better frames on guard if you continue into WC. This is true for pretty much all the stance transition attacks, since if you didn't get any +frames it would be impossible to avoid punishment from anything. The stances were meant to force people into whiffing retaliations, even though sadly, they don't always work properly...

WC AA on it's own is -18. (You can kinda tell it's unsafe since she has an obvious pause afterward.) The +12 on guard for WC AA~WC is supposed to allow you to have enough frames to WC around vertical punishers. You can still be hit out of WC if your move was blocked because even when you have +12, the opponent can still use a faster move than anything from WC.

ahh I understand, thanks for the help again Zero. man, wish you were on xbl so we could play, you've got lots of knowledge I could learn from.

I didnt know about the unblockable, but ill see what I can do with it. my new favorite move is 11b~stance transition, been having alot of fun with this.. if for no other reason as its a new transition that my group has not seen yet. (they are all talim newbs) so alot of stuff still hits and they are learning to fight her from fighting me pretty much which leaves me lots of room to play with mixups until they learn her "holes" and where she can be punished. are there any frame traps we can setup with talim for better results into stance changes? looking to make some and going through the Wiki, but im just beginning to learn frames and how to properly utalize them.. figured I'd ask. =)

even at +12 im still getting hit alot out of WC, it seems like I dont have anything to force them to block after the transition. they are learning that they can punish me on virtually any stance transition on reaction.. frustrating.

ive been having good sucess with 44a and had a question about the stun after the 2nd hit. any decent followups? im working in practice at the moment to make some stuff up so as not to only reproduce what you guys list here, I'll post what I come up with to see if its worthy lol. want to contribute myself a little if I can. (although most things are already found im assuming.. but its fun to try to make up something "new to me")

Ice Wind Combo is giving me fits! I started getting it in practice and occasionally in a match.. but i still feel like im just throwing it out randomly. still have the combos listed previously that im working on in practice.. just need more time in the dojo with them to build muscle memory.

ok, last question, 9_33b6b (6:b), ive been using this to OTG with limited results.. when i dont wiff the jf.. viable? where are some situations that you can work this in?
 

MasudSabr

[08] Mercenary
I know it's been discussed briefly before, but what are you guys' win ratios with KOs, ROs, and CFs?

Had a few games last night and my friends really buckled up and gave me a hard time dealing damage, so I switched my game completely and focused on RO and CF instead. As it turned out, I ended up winning more because each round was shortened and I reckon about 60+% of my wins from then on came from ROs and CF (mostly ROs). Even had a couple where it ended with 3-0 purely from ROs.

Moves that stood out: 66K, BT K, 44k, 7_8_9B, WC K, WC A+K, AS A+B

Even though my friends were probably not used to me playing like that, and it's not to suggest I don't include ROs in my normal games, but after last night, I realised while Talim's damage output is weak, she has all the tools to vary her game. Good evasion, good stuns (with and without walls), can position her opponenents, great BT options, and a whole range of moves to help you RO from different positions. Perhaps her mix-ups aren't there to deal damage, but to give your opponents a tough time avoiding their eventual fall to the pit.

Remove Hilde's doom combo, can Talim replace her as the Ring Out Queen?

ps. Credits to Zero for that RO moves list from before, it literally just flashed in my head when I was struggling to survive hahaha
 

ZONG_one

[09] Warrior
I would say about 50% of my wins are ring outs. Even when someone is a few 2A's away from death, XD, i'll still ring out them. Talim has plenty of RO options, and they can be the ace up your sleeve when people turtle up, or you can't seem to deal any damage.

(Plus all the hate mail you will get if you're playing online.)
"Fucking ring out pro, you couldn't win without it."
heh...
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
I would say that I'm getting more RO victories now than before since I started to see just how good her RO game is when near the edge. Especially with 236B, AS A+B... this has saved me a lot of times. As for CFs, I used to get them quite a bit at first when I found out how good 6A+B is on the gauge. Now, though, it seems that no matter how many times I get them flashing red, (and it happens a lot) I can't get the crush when I need it. (Most of my opponents don't GI all that much so I guess it's just bad luck or something....)

I mainly just use it now for pressure. Talim has a lot of moves that break the gauge in 9-12 blocks, and given how often she has to hit the opponent this is like nothing at all. Her SG game, combined with her GBs and using GIs, becomes quite scary at times. If your opponent is in the red against her in the last round you'll find a lot of moves hitting that wouldn't normally for fear of CF.

So I guess it looks like ROs about 55%, KOs about 40% and CFs about 5%. (Looking to change the CF %)

And I'm glad to hear I was able to help with the RO stuff.
 

SBA

TFNA
i just found this out...u can get the stunned version of FC 3bb from 6k....is it better than 236b tho?
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
It's faster but I don't know about it being better. iFC 3BB is easier to land, and safer on block if they shake 6K. 236B gives better damage and RO/Wall potential, but it's slower and unsafe on block if they shake.

FC 3BB isn't a bad option though since even if they block they take SG damage anyway.
 

MasudSabr

[08] Mercenary
What's the best move(s) to use on people who knows which stuns to shake off? Been doing 6A+B for soul damage, but...?
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
What's the best move(s) to use on people who knows which stuns to shake off? Been doing 6A+B for soul damage, but...?

After 6K I like to use 11KA/6A+B/44K mixups. 6A+B will lock most people into place and force them to block and take SG damage. Some characters like Hilde can step it at the last minute so that's where 11KA comes in. Most people tend to block standing after shaking a stun and some even expect throws too. So this will cause them to crouch guard or jump.

44K is mainly used to thwart all-purpose auto-GIs like Asura.
 

JELLY

[09] Warrior
So when you think about it, stun combos arent very reliable offline then hey? Does anyone know if it's possible to shake a stun and still GI? eg. Escape 6K and GI 6A+B in time? Or do frames or techs or whatever you use stop you from doing that and forcing you to block?



Oh yeah and any tips for A+B 236A 236B? I couldnt do it to save my life and its obviously useful in BT combos and stuff.


And is it just me or does 44K leave you BT sometimes? Holy crap so many questions.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Non-shakeable stun combos work great offline. As for shakeable stuns, just think of them as major frame advantage, which in Talim's case is rare to begin with. You can shake stuns and GI 6A+B, it's just hard to do consistently. Fortunately, you can G cancel 6A+B if they start doing that.

A+B 236A 236B? the best way I can tell you to do it is to do it all in one motion. By that I mean, instead of trying to do each hit separately and looking to time it a certain way, the input should be A+B236A236B. Forget about the visual clues and just do all three parts back-to-back.
 

SBA

TFNA
^^^ wat he said....it should all be one fluid motion.

question: does anyone do AS mixups off of a shaken 6k?
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
You know, I was actually thinking about working some AS B+K/AS A mixups off of CH 6K. The problem is you can only really attempt it if 6K connects at max range. I always ended up jumping over the opponent if they were too close.
 

ShenYu

[11] Champion
The problem with that is also that you're doing something pretty unsafe. So yeah, you can do it, but know you're liable to get pwned if the face if you abuse it too much. Note that I said abuse. Use it once in a while and it's likely you'll get away with getting something blocked and surprising your opponent every now and then.