The Anti-Asura Thread

crow_winters

crow_winters

[11] Champion
I'm surprised no one made a thread about this. This is, after all, stuff everyone needs to know about, especially Kilik players.

For those not in the know about the magic of Asura, here's it's STATS:

B+K, 6B, 41236B
NC, 69 points total
Mid, Mid, Mid
GI 4~14
TJ 9~20
Auto-GIs all Vertical and Horizontal Mids
Ducks highs (ducking occurs LATER in the move, when Kilik comes down from the jump)

The first hit is steppable to the left versus all characters. A single left step will make all proceeding hits in Asura Dance Whiff.

Post 1st hit block, the SECOND hit is steppable versus all characters except Yoda and Algol. Timing on stepping the 2nd hit can be a little tight though, PARTICULARLY for some of the slower steppers/bigger guys. However, frames lost from stepping after blocking B+K when Kilik doesn't do a 2nd hit means that you lose your ability to punish.

The most exploitable vulnerability of Asura Dance comes in between it's 1st and 2nd hit, where the pole seems to have an incredibly linear hitbox. Here is a list of characters that can interrupt the 2nd hit after blocking the first.

To test whiffed auto-GIs or stuff that hits kilik inbetween the hits but dosen't hit just B+K, I used 46B after B+K.


Yoda
4B, 3A - both these moves interrupt the 2nd hit and punish Kilik if he only does B+K.
Darth Vader
6_3A+B - aGI. Kilik can punish aGI whiff.
The Apprentice
Left A+K (8 on 1p side, 2 on 2p side) jumps out of 2nd hit every time. I wonder if Oofmatic knows about this, lol.
Lizardman
Nothing.
Sophie
A+B- aGI, leads to guaranteed 54 damage. Kilik can punish aGI whiff.
I also want to point out that stepping the 2nd hit seemed WAY easier with sophie then with most characters..
Amy
4A- avoids 2nd hit and punishes B+K by itself.
B+K- Auto-GI's 2nd hit, guarantees B+K K combo. Kilik can NOT punish B+K whiff because Amy can just do K regardless of whether she scores the GI or not, AND Kilik cannot interrupt B+K B or K. (I didn't test if he could Asura B+K A, he probably can but it's a moot point since he can't do anything about B+K B_K
Setsuka
A+B- aGI, free credits and damage. Kilik can NOT punish A+B whiff.
Mitsurugi
1B- This move avoids the 2nd hit and punishes B+K if B+K is done by itself.
Cassandra
2B+K- This move avoids the 2nd hit and punishes B+K if B+K is done by itself.
Raphael
4A- avoids 2nd hit and punishes B+K by itself.
Taki
66K- She goes under the 2nd hit. Timing is a tiny bit tighter on this then a lot of other characters options.
Siegfried
Left Chief Hold (8B+K on 1p side)- Avoids 2nd hit. Kilik 46B trades with SCH K if Kilik does B+K, 46B
Nightmare
Nothing.
Hilde
Surprisingly nothing, considering how retarded Hilde is. I really thought at least one version of C A would beat the 2nd hit. Maybe a Hilde player should test this, lol.
Maxi
Nothing.
Voldo
2_8A+K- Both avoid the 2nd hit of Asura Dance.
A+K- Absorbs 2nd hit, will also evade third during "dance"
Tira
GL B+K- aGI into attack throw. Kilik can punish aGI whiff.
X
4A+B- Auto-GI's 2nd hit but does not punish B+K. Kilik can not 46B after B+K block without getting hit by 4A+B, I guess he'd have to do something like 4B+K or 1B or.. another ASURA!!!
1K, 66A+B, 1B+K- Avoids 2nd hit but does not punish B+K
Kilik
Asura- Go Asura yourself, Kilik. Kilik can Asura the 2nd hit but he can't punish a block B+K with B+K.
4A- Avoids 2nd hit but dosen't hit, and won't punish B+K.
Astaroth
Nothing.
Rock
Nothing.
Ivy
You'd have to pay me to go through Ivy's movelists, lol.
Cervantes
B+K- Teleports during 2nd hit. I miss when he shot his gun from this. :( More then a little useless since the 3rd hit of Asura hits him out of the teleport, AND Kilik can hit can 46B punish wiffed GI.
Talim
8B+K (P1 side)- Evades 2nd hit. Options won't punish post B+K, but kilik can not beat AA or K out of stance with his 46B.
Yoshi
Did not test yet
Zas
Did not test yet
Algol
623B- GIs the 2nd hit, but can not punish B+K. (This matchup is so f'n easy for Kilik, lol.)
 
By no means complete. SC4 has a lot of retarded stuff so I'm sure there's little surprises hidden in the movelists somewhere. :)
 
crow_winters said:
Algol
623B- GIs the 2nd hit, but can not punish B+K. (This matchup is so f'n easy for Kilik, lol.)
Click to expand...
the matchup is in Algol's favor. Anyway I didn't know Amy 4A punished single B+K and evades the second hit at the same time. that's pretty good. didn't know about the Mitsu 1B either.
 
I remember Hayate mentioning that if you block 2nd hit of Asura you can wait for a second, then punish with a i14 frame move. If they decide to do the 3rd hit, you'll block and be able to punish for full damage.
 
Outkast- Yes, but the timing is much harder then doing any of the options above, IMO.

ExMachina- Thanks, added. :)

sWoRD_LoRD said:
the matchup is in Algol's favor.
Click to expand...

Um, whaat? Kilik is THE anti-Algol. 2A+K can go under bubbles (albeit timing is tighter), FC 1B goes under/through bubbles AND 1B AND can go under the 1st hit of BB at mid range AND your mom, 4B pegs through bubbles without getting hit in a similar fashion to Mina 66B (except Kilik does more damage), Algol can't step the 2nd hit of asura post block (ONLY character in the game that can't), most of Algol's best moves are Asura bait (BB, WS B, 1B, 3A, 1A, 1K all lose to Asura), and Kilik can still punish a lot of Algol stuff despite pushback because of 46B. Oh, and let's not forget that Algol and Kilik both basically have the same move- Asura Dance and DP- except Algol's DP does less then half of Asura's damage, dosen't track to either side, is only one hit, more then -20 on block, etc. Algol is THE character to spam Asura on, because it reduces his options severely and there isn't a whole lot he can do outside of risking GIing or attempting to 3K/AA/step the very first hit.

Easily one of Algol's hardest matchups, along with Hilde/Cassie. People swear to me that Mina > Algol too because of 66B and FC 1B but I haven't played a really solid Mina yet that's made me afraid of the matchup.
 
Crow: it might be good to make another list with each character's best moves to hit kilik out of asura.

SwordLord: I don't see why Algol has advantage on kilik. 5-5 at best, probably 6-4 Kilik advantage in all likelihood though
 
interesting fact: If you GI (6G) the last hit of Asuras dance with Astaroth, both the last hit and the GI whiff.
 
crow_winters said:
Um, whaat? Kilik is THE anti-Algol. 2A+K can go under bubbles (albeit timing is tighter), FC 1B goes under/through bubbles AND 1B AND can go under the 1st hit of BB at mid range AND your mom, 4B pegs through bubbles without getting hit in a similar fashion to Mina 66B (except Kilik does more damage), Algol can't step the 2nd hit of asura post block (ONLY character in the game that can't), most of Algol's best moves are Asura bait (BB, WS B, 1B, 3A, 1A, 1K all lose to Asura), and Kilik can still punish a lot of Algol stuff despite pushback because of 46B. Oh, and let's not forget that Algol and Kilik both basically have the same move- Asura Dance and DP- except Algol's DP does less then half of Asura's damage, dosen't track to either side, is only one hit, more then -20 on block, etc. Algol is THE character to spam Asura on, because it reduces his options severely and there isn't a whole lot he can do outside of risking GIing or attempting to 3K/AA/step the very first hit.

Easily one of Algol's hardest matchups, along with Hilde/Cassie. People swear to me that Mina > Algol too because of 66B and FC 1B but I haven't played a really solid Mina yet that's made me afraid of the matchup.
Click to expand...
you say Kilik FC1B beats bubbles, etc etc, but that's not all that practical, cause Kilik FC1B is very situational, so Algol would have to throw the bubble, Kilik has to duck then do the move before Algol recovers, or Algol can launch him for doing that (maybe it can be practical, I've never seen it attempted before). Doing FC1B to beat anything else you mentioned is much more dangerous though. You say you can whore asura against Algol, but Algol punishes it very well. 2B+K punishes asura, I think even on the first and second hit. Algol is also the only character in the game that can compete with Kilik as far as spacing games. Algol does not HAVE to shoot bubbles at all. I don't mean to change the subject of the thread tho, I'm just sayin, it's certainly not an easy matchup for Kilik.
 
Tigger- X's 66A+B will hit Kilik, he's not TCing during the 2nd hit.

Shwordlord-
Bubbles do launch Kilik out of Asura, but only if they hit him during the TJ part. That is one thing in Algol's favor but it doesn't happen all that often, definitely not as much as hitting, say, Talim out of TJ lol.

FC 1B is mega super applicable. It pokes Algol outside of his poking range and Algol can't punish it on block because of range and the fact that Algol totally blows at punishing. 2B+K gets auto-GI'd by Asura and Algol has to guess which hit Kilik will stop at in order to use it, unlike say Cassie, who can just do 2B+K everytime. Algol probably can 2B+K to /punish/, but not even being able to /step/ after blocking the first hit puts him in a really difficult situation that no one else has to deal with. It's a much harder guess for him then it is for anyone else, even Yoda for christ's sake has better options post B+K block.

I've clocked in more matches then I ever care to versus BLDave and Ryujin, and I am not the only Algol player in MI. Algol can win versus Kilik, it's possibile, but the odds are significantly stacked against him, and in every case I've ever seen of an Algol player going against Kilik, it's been an infinitely easier matchup to just switch to virtually anyone else.
 
I know he's not TC but I seriously tried to hit him with 66A+B after blocking the first hit and it won't touch him. They end up parallel to each other with X's back to his.
 
crow: here are some notable mid moves that beat asura when you get around to it


Algol: 3K, 44K, 33K, aB
Asta: 6K, 66K
Maxi: 3K, 33K
NM: WS K, WS , 11K
Sieg: 4K
Voldo: 1[k]
 
wing_zero said:
I remember Hayate mentioning that if you block 2nd hit of Asura you can wait for a second, then punish with a i14 frame move. If they decide to do the 3rd hit, you'll block and be able to punish for full damage.
Click to expand...

And i Think it's the best solution from some characters.

Btw killing Asura before he land it will keep you some trouble, then you can apply some mix-up safely. Asura is a defensive option of Kilik, a great Kilik player will do when he is at frame disavantage -10 to -5, so exactly when you habitually respond with a counterattack poke or a mixup. The Real problem is here, blocking Asura won't occu a lot versus good players, cause they will start throwing or attacking you.

When i goes for Asura to kill Mixup and my opponnent start blocking, i'am taking a lot more advantage, instead of doing Asura i'am going for 1K / Throw / 2A / MO, that will cause a lots of trouble cause the opponent let you do what you want.

You have to Kill anymixup included Asura enough time to not let Kilik taking favor every time he goes at -5 ~ -10. All characters has 3K, AA, 6K use it.

If you are SURE that Kilik will go for an Asura and want to punish it, use slow damaging mid move (or delay your 3B). You can also step G to the left. Blocking his the last think you have to do. And if it occur, use your auto-gi move, if you don't have one, use i14 move with a waiting second after the second hit blocked.

An other important thing about Asura, is that Kilik will always go for the second hit, cause he can't hit confirm and land the third.

Tiamat> All kicks works (excpect Astaroth 2K, i don't why oO)
But i think the better thing is to list the A or B type move that can't be Asured.

Astaroth 4B
Yoshi 3A 3B
etc...
 
Astaroth will never have to worry about Asura.

22b - Range is to far for Asura to connect.
a+b - Range is to far for Asura to connect.

His A throw catches Asura out of the air so he's like the only character who can attempt more throws.

He doesn't use highs (attacks) so hitting with iWR B is more difficult.

Kilik also has to be might careful of Vert's because one stepped vertical can equal 40-50% gone

2k trap doesn't work at all on Astaroth.

Bull Rush stops Asura, Delay (or slow attack), MO/BP, highs and throws. Not to mention during Asura with Astaroth's back to edge is SUPER risky.

None of Kilik's from the laying position attacks are even applicable against Astaroth cause his 22b hits him out of them all.
 
just tested. Algol does get 2B+K punish on all hits of asura, but he also gets 3AA,2A+B,aB,11B punish which hurts even more. It doesn't matter much that Algol has to guess how many hits it will be (a kilik player can't hit confirm after the first hit of asura anyway, so it's a guess between the second and third). It's a situation a Kilik player doesn't want to be in.
 
Within the span of a day this thread gets made and (unsurprisingly) there's debate about Algol.

Many thanks crow, I'm sure more info will pop up soon. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back