The future of Algol, Hilde and Star Wars

I don't know about teaching people anti-hilde. There are already a bunch of RTD and Ceirnian vids out there for people to watch. After watching those, it just takes practice. Unless you guys are talking about some kind of step by step "How To" or " Anti-Hilde for Dummies" guides. Shit, I guess you could even use the same vids and just insert commentary or something and label it a "guide".

But now that Algol is generaly being unbanned, we will get more vids of him and that should be helpful. Nori vs. whodat will be a good one. We can all learn from what things he did right and what things he did wrong. It's not going to be THE guide, but other tournament Algol vids will eventually appear.

I say no bans, but good luck to NE/NJ for whatever you guys do. Bigger attendance is nice.
 
This thread depresses me. Like a psycho conservative who thinks the American health care system is fine the way it is, I'm mad that intelligent people are seriously participating in this discussion again. I thought we'd moved on.
 
Tidus_Crescent said:
I don't think Hilde should be banned >_> Realyst came up with an idea a few months ago that everyone ignored.
http://www.8wayrun.com/f21/ban-hilde-t2286/page12.html#post56956
Could be a possible solution. We all know why everyone plays on pad with Hilde since the advantages are obvious.
Click to expand...

Realyst brought that up?
With that bullshit logic of "Japan doesn't allow it so we shouldn't?"

I love how EVERYONE completely and conveniently forgets all the research and results ShenYuan and myself tried to point out what is the problem with Hilde in the first place.. Really really painstaking process, if I do say so myself.. Only for everyone to side with their favorite cockride buddies instead of trying to figure out an honest opinion from their own lazy skulls.

People just go "tl;dr" and then continue to post their own wall of text on why their opinion is so fucking awesome, when they don't know squat.

Most of my talking was done on Javachat, ShenYuan had more sense to actually POST about it..

http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=56957&postcount=241
http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=52108&postcount=14
http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=54144&postcount=21
http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=51263&postcount=79

(Oh wait here's some walls of texts from myself. I'm more of an asshole then ShenYuan, so don't click if you're easily offended. But then again, that's probably why you're even in this thread anyhow)

http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=12208&postcount=36
http://www.8wayrun.com/showpost.php?p=17132&postcount=45

ShenYuan was (and probably still is) the best non-bind Hilde player on these boards and really helped local players to develop a proper anti-Hilde game.. One which is completely shattered by the existence of Bind Charging.

DO NOTE the post dates on those posts.
All of them are from at LEAST 7 weeks back.
Before the majority of Anti-Hilde players in the USA popped in, saw Hilde and left..
 
yea....banishment. laff....anywho:

Vader: no real reason to ban him....so what he has the force gauge..? so does yoda and starkiller. He doesn't have anything broken, no top placings in tournaments, no REAL warrant reason to ban him.

Yoda: laff....moving on

Hilde: BAN THE BITCH!!!! jk. No but seriously....she doesn't deserve to be banned. However, whoever's stupid idea to allow button binding for pad players should be shot. This game has had that rule banned until now. This game had 4 buttons for you to play with, so it should be played with 4 buttons. (makes me wanna learn tekken...lol)

Algol: Nope, bubbles are an interesting part of his system, but that's all. And those infinites, meh, it is what it is. Not really likely to happen in a tournament enviroment. Plus, in places that are allowing him, i'm not showing any algol winners dominating. Again, no reason to ban him either.

no but seriously...binding needs to be banned. since we're talking about banning things. Oh and also Rock, Mina, Cha cha, MJ for beating me in a food match....and...uh...Jaxel. :D
 
:sc1yos1:Okay bottom line.:sc1yos1:
Don't ban Hilde; She refuses to bow to your logic.
Don't ban Algol; Because bubbles are pro!!!
Don't ban Vader; You are just weak.
Don't ban Yoda; Learn the way of the force.
Don't ban Starkiller; He doesn't care about your situation.
:sc1yos1:Savvy?:sc1yos1:

Did I miss anything?
 
Psylocide said:
I think you missed the part where people were trying to have a logical conversation... but whatever, right?
Click to expand...

I read the conversations and understood them.
I got brain hurt from all these wall of text however.
I mean (no offense), some points that some people explained well, gets "explained again".
So a colorful text with nice little pics is my response. I know humor isn't allowed, but I needed to post this.
Just think of it as a "small breather" for a "long logic discussion" to come. But only if it occurs. lol
 
I don't agree with banning button binds, but since a lot of people complain about pad Hilde with extra A's and B's, and how brain dead easy it makes it to use her, one idea is to only allow pad Hildes to have extra G's and K's. That way they'll have to play her like an arcade stick user would, but still have easy access to A+K and B+G without having to go into 'claw style'.

Just a thought.
 
Oof: i see your point in a way, but i just have one question

When have you seen SF4, ST, Tekken, or GG to be known to allow binding?

that's my only question. If you can answer that, then i'll stop pursuing the banning of the binds. I mean, i'm a pad player and i don't like the idea. Then again, i'm an ol school player also, and i don't like the fact that little kiddies get it so damn easy.

.....i just sounded old just now didn't i...?

Namu: yes, a little light-hearted comment is always needed in a serious serious discussion, makes things easier. I mean look at PhilBond's post when he corrected DFG. XD
 
That's a dumb question. Those games have no relevance to SC4. Just because they ban button binding doesn't mean we have to. I've been going to tournaments since SC2 and never have I heard of a tournament that banned it, nor have I ever seen people complain at a tournament that they lost only because the opponent had binds.

I'm even against my idea on limiting Hilde as mentioned in my previous post. I just mentioned it because it might be a good alternative for IdleMind and his tournaments instead of just banning the character all together.

Anyways I'm not here to debate the legitimacy of binding, since I find the idea to even discuss banning button binds at this point to be completely retarded, so I have nothing more to say on the matter.
 
I'm against banning binds as well because the majority of us use them plus it's a functionality built into the game. Plus the game pads were designed with 8 buttons to use. It's silly to tell someone that they can't use them.

If you take binds away from Hilde, then no one is going to use her, so you might as well just ban her. How many Hilde players are jumping at the chance to use just 4 buttons?

Lastly, banning button binds is not going to bring people back to Soul Calibur which is what we're trying to accomplish. Who's going to jump into the tourney scene with that announcement?

My goal is to come with a best possible solution. Like I said before, we wouldn't be discussing the idea of a ban if people were still showing for tournaments. But interest in this game is waning and will continue to do so if we don't do anything or without support from Namco.

But like Idle said, it's an experiment. If it doesn't work, we'll figure something else out. I'm not totally against banning binds, I just feel that move isn't going to bring people back into the game or get new people to come aboard. And stop bringing up other games. They have nothing to do with us.
 
the only button i changed to use hilde is the R1 button set to K, and i use my thumb on A,B,G

=D
_________________________________________
====== DOUBLE POST AUTO-MERGE ======
namuskull said:
:sc1yos1:okay bottom line.:sc1yos1:
don't ban hilde; she refuses to bow to your logic.
don't ban algol; because bubbles are pro!!!
don't ban vader; you are just weak.
don't ban yoda; learn the way of the force.
don't ban starkiller; he doesn't care about your situation.
:sc1yos1:savvy?:sc1yos1:

did i miss anything?
Click to expand...


lmao

=D
 
Everyone should only have 1 K, 1 G, 1 A, and 1 B.

Example

360 pad
X = A
A = B
RB = K
RT = G

With this config do you have a problem grabbing? No. Thumb hit's A or B and Middle finger hits G. A+K or B+K? Thumb+Index. A+B?Thumb.

This can probably save hilde. Just agree :/
 
Oof: how is that really a dumb question, espically when you don't answer it.

All of which are FG's, all of which also have setups for shoulder buttons as well. So how is my question irrevalent? I'm not per say bitching about it. Personally i could care less. And no it's not about limiting Hilde, becuase other people that don't play hilde uses binds as well.

I mean, it was just a question. I didn't expect you to get all bent out of shape for it...but whatever. It is what it is.

I guess my simple logic is too simple...
 
First off I agree with Malek about button binding I doubt that will attract new people. Speaking of which I encountered someone new to the series who is also interested in going to a tournament. Anyway he got his buttons setup and I doubt that he would be encouraged to go to a tourney if that rule was in place.

My opinion about Hilde is that she got too many good things about her not really the doom combo alone. For example she got a lot range, decent step, great frame data, and the doom combo. The majority of her standing charges leave her at an advantage of +2,3. Her C2 A is a GB/IMP and follows up with a UB. Then she got C3 A that tech crouches and is an IMP that leaves her at advantage and its a KND that RO's. On top of the charges she got the doom combo.

She just has too much good stuff what I think they need to do is take away one thing from her whether it be her doom combo, charges that leave her at an advantage, or hell even make the the charge that starts the doom combo really unsafe. Usually moves that are rewarding are unsafe such as algol's 3AA its slow and its unsafe but leaves the opponent in a unshakable stun which leads to a guaranteed combo. Whether the reward is worth it or not that is a different discussion. Then you have hildes C3 B safe starts doom combo RO round won. Even after all the crap I said about her. I think she should stay and people need to move on and worry about more important things.

Psylocide said:
That's interesting... why does the outside perception of our game suck? Is it the community's fault? "Broken" characters? What could we do to change that perception? Is it just because it's Soul Calibur and not Tekken or SF?

Elaboration would be nice.
Click to expand...

In my opinion it has nothing to do with specific communities. It has to do with people in general in SCIV I get booted out of public sessions all the time and its always about something that is cheap. I thought to myself wow the SCIV community blows then I thought back when I played DOA4 and I remember all the crap people got for using Ninja's in that game. If DOA4 had RO's or a thing called advantage I could definitely see myself being accused of being a RO whore/spammer.

You gotta remember its easier to sit back and criticize than it is to do something about the problem. So people just sit back and criticize continue to play their game rather than learn SC. Also I believe the people who "play to win" are in the minority compared to the people who "play for fun" are common. So that also doesn't help either.
 
Here's how i see it:

Personally, let her keep the combo, maybe it was supposed to be in the game. here wat i think hilde was meant to be (assuming of course binds were banned)

Her positives:
Advantage on charges
some charges have GB/IMP or both properties.
Great step
great game @ range.

Her negatives:
can't punish most moves unlike most characters.
has some real OBVIOUS strings
loses the ability to charge to throw break (assuming you can get in on her.)
if refused to lose the charge to throw break, eats a free throw.

i mean...it's 4+'s and 4-'s that make her up. IMHO

again...i must have too simple logic :)
 
here's a positive i think you missed;
she has a fairly easy combo that, if hit by it, will ring you out from nearly anywhere on any stage with your back turned towards an edge. she is the only character to have a combo like this (unless you want to argue ivy's RO cannon or yoshi's shit, and yoshi's shit is much harder to pull off than releasing charges) and any new player will not know how to defend against it. shit, i play offline as much as i possibly and i still don't know how to reasonably defend myself against it AND win the round.
i'll quote myself,
"and i can say, she almost affected me the exact same way. after watching RTD ring out very good players that had legitimate skill at the ATL regionals, i haven't been back to another atlanta tournament because i don't have enough offline experience against doom-whoring hildes to even try to beat him (or her)."
and i only wonder how many other people are in my position.
 
It's like you guys expect to wake up and just be like "I can defend EVERYTHING IN THE GAME". . . .amazing. . .it takes this thing I like to call TIME to get good at something unless you're a genius.

I've never in my life seen people so afraid of something. . . and just unwilling to learn to fight against something. One tourney and new players calling judgment is just wrong and the community needs to step up to that.

I have a question for you, if she is banned will you come back to SC and will you be a hardcore player?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom