The future of Algol, Hilde and Star Wars

[Batousai]

here's a positive i think you missed;
she has a fairly easy combo that, if hit by it, will ring you out from nearly anywhere on any stage with your back turned towards an edge. she is the only character to have a combo like this (unless you want to argue ivy's RO cannon or yoshi's shit, and yoshi's shit is much harder to pull off than releasing charges) and any new player will not know how to defend against it. shit, i play offline as much as i possibly and i still don't know how to reasonably defend myself against it AND win the round.
i'll quote myself,
"and i can say, she almost affected me the exact same way. after watching RTD ring out very good players that had legitimate skill at the ATL regionals, i haven't been back to another atlanta tournament because i don't have enough offline experience against doom-whoring hildes to even try to beat him (or her)."
and i only wonder how many other people are in my position.

This is just my opinion but I believe this is the reason people outside of our community don't respect our game. I mean, nobody banned Jin from T4 or Steve from T5 and they are pretty much the equal of Hilde in SC4. No one bans characters in SF. They don't ban binding for playing the characters to make them harder to play. They just get better and learn to play against it. I think that's what we need to do as well if we're going to get respect and grow the community.

 

[Malice]

This is just my opinion but I believe this is the reason people outside of our community don't respect our game. I mean, nobody banned Jin from T4 or Steve from T5 and they are pretty much the equal of Hilde in SC4. No one bans characters in SF. They don't ban binding for playing the characters to make them harder to play. They just get better and learn to play against it. I think that's what we need to do as well if we're going to get respect and grow the community.

Again, we're not Tekken or Street Fighter. We don't have the number of people who play those games. They can get away with saying deal with it because there are so many players that will continue to play the game while we don't. Plus those games get something called support from their publishers while we don't.

And right now the interest in this game is fading. Who's going to be left to deal with Hilde if current players are not showing up while we are not bringing any new people into the game? Why would the top players show up for a tournament if there's barely a turnout? I'm just concerned with the other areas where there aren't as many SC players.

But doing nothing IS not working. Look at the turnouts with Hilde still in the game. Dealing with it doesn't work. Since this is Soul Calibur, people will just leave to play something else. Banning binds is not going to revive interest or bring anyone new to the game. We also have outside factors to deal with such as people going back to school, this recession, and other fighting games that people are playing or will probably play instead of Soul Calibur.

I also thought that there would be mad hype after EVO, but turnouts for this game are still weak if not weaker. But I am done trying to make my case since most of you guys are missing the point and rather bitch than offer viable solutions. We also wouldn't be in this situation if either Namco showed some support or if the interest in this game was still there.

What I also don't get is why is everyone so content with doing nothing when you should be able to clearly see that interest in this game is fading. Plus no other community is being forced to implement the ban. And I know that the Hilde players don't like this move, but like I said, it wouldn't have to come to this point if the interest in this game was still there or if Namco showed some support. Try to think long term since who knows when something will happen with the console version.

As for me, I said my piece and I done with this thread since it hasn't produced anything but whining and bitching as with every other thread regarding this subject. Peace.

 

[Ceirnian]

Yeah namco is showing no support at all, not like they are releasing a new game.

DOOM AND GLOOM, END OF THE WORLD

 

[iKotomi]

any new player will not know how to defend against it.

Any new player will not know how to defend against a whole lot of b.s. Should we ban lows because new players aren't used to their animations and can't defend against them? Does a new player stand much of a chance against any good player that knows what they are doing? I don't think so.

 

[Chickenwing]

iKotomi: no, that logic shouldn't of even been posted. That's different, teaching someone how to block lows and teaching someone how to deal with the pad are two different things.

Malice: to you, that is also a no. How does communities not impliment to ban anything? Then why does GoW2 tournaments banned the Lancer, how did the halo 2 tournaments ban the "combo"? Grant it those are shooters, but spare me on communities that don't ban anything.

also, what have you mentioned? all you've been doing since i've asked my question (that you all have yet to answer) is bitching about people bitching. No one here is bitching (well recently), but it's pretty revelent that my simple question can't be answered.

that's my only point.

If we're going to warrant a ban on ANYTHING...then it should be in favor of both sides. ex. "backpack reloading" (a halo 1 glitch) was easy and both parties could do it. As opposed to Beam rilfe (halo 2 convenant sniper) That's why weapon spawn was reset to human weaps.

 

[BEENEEWEENEES]

It's like you guys expect to wake up and just be like "I can defend EVERYTHING IN THE GAME". . . .amazing. . .it takes this thing I like to call TIME to get good at something unless you're a genius.

I've never in my life seen people so afraid of something. . . and just unwilling to learn to fight against something. One tourney and new players calling judgment is just wrong and the community needs to step up to that.

I have a question for you, if she is banned will you come back to SC and will you be a hardcore player?

i have no way to learn how to defend against it offline. the closest SC gatherings aren't close enough for me to make regular travel to. i never left soul calibur, i just don't want to make trips out to these tourneys when i know there's a character that i am absolutely clueless about who's going to tear me apart because i have no idea how to fight against it. call it whining, i call it saving my $20.

 

[Batousai]

Again, we're not Tekken or Street Fighter. We don't have the number of people who play those games. They can get away with saying deal with it because there are so many players that will continue to play the game while we don't. Plus those games get something called support from their publishers while we don't.

And right now the interest in this game is fading. Who's going to be left to deal with Hilde if current players are not showing up while we are not bringing any new people into the game? Why would the top players show up for a tournament if there's barely a turnout? I'm just concerned with the other areas where there aren't as many SC players.

But doing nothing IS not working. Look at the turnouts with Hilde still in the game. Dealing with it doesn't work. Since this is Soul Calibur, people will just leave to play something else. Banning binds is not going to revive interest or bring anyone new to the game. We also have outside factors to deal with such as people going back to school, this recession, and other fighting games that people are playing or will probably play instead of Soul Calibur.

I also thought that there would be mad hype after EVO, but turnouts for this game are still weak if not weaker. But I am done trying to make my case since most of you guys are missing the point and rather bitch than offer viable solutions. We also wouldn't be in this situation if either Namco showed some support or if the interest in this game was still there.

What I also don't get is why is everyone so content with doing nothing when you should be able to clearly see that interest in this game is fading. Plus no other community is being forced to implement the ban. And I know that the Hilde players don't like this move, but like I said, it wouldn't have to come to this point if the interest in this game was still there or if Namco showed some support. Try to think long term since who knows when something will happen with the console version.

As for me, I said my piece and I done with this thread since it hasn't produced anything but whining and bitching as with every other thread regarding this subject. Peace.

Malice I dont think we are missing the point. And I wasn't bitching about our community. I've loved SC for years and I will always play it and I think many of the players here will too. The problem is you're right. Unfortunately, until namco decides they want to support this game there's really nothing we can do. The only real solution that I think would work is to petition namco to patch this game to something like BD. Even jua. Fixing Hilde/Algol for new players would help but honestly the ball is in namco's court. If they don't decide to support us the game will fail. =(

 

[Eyce_Theon]

i have no way to learn how to defend against it offline. the closest SC gatherings aren't close enough for me to make regular travel to. i never left soul calibur, i just don't want to make trips out to these tourneys when i know there's a character that i am absolutely clueless about who's going to tear me apart because i have no idea how to fight against it. call it whining, i call it saving my $20.

I don't see the difference between someone beating you with Hilde as opposed to any other character in this scenario. If all you have is online play, you're lacking offline experience for the entire cast, not one magical character.

As CNP already said, watch some matches on Youtube or something if you want to see how the character works. If you have nobody around you to play offline games with, your problem isn't with Hilde.

I also don't see how Malice's logic is working for him. After dismissing all other games as being bigger, different, and irrelevant, his argument is "doing nothing IS not working. Look at the turnouts with Hilde still in the game. Dealing with it doesn't work." Implying that one character in a video game is the lone cause of a small fanbase while dismissing any precedent and accusing everyone else of whining and doing nothing is...fuck, is that IdleMind posting?

@Chickenwing - which question are you reffering to, about other games not supporting button binds? Not to dismiss other games as being wrong, but I can't think of any other game that requires you to use opposing buttons together/rapidly so often (B+G/A+K/a:K/aB, etc). From what I know about SF, LP+LK/MP+MK/HP+HK are used, but easily pressed by your thumb alone. Some moves in this game are practically impossible without button binds or playing 'claw style', which I hate to do.

Hilde does benefit from binds because of shoulder charging (ease of use), grab breaks, and being free to use any non-charge move without having to drop the charge inside of an animation first. Though I feel that it really doesn't fucking matter because she's beatable and predictable anyway, not allowing Hilde that last binding advantage would be a much better option than banning people's mains.

People will complain about her no matter what though, so w/e.

 

[Chickenwing]

@Chickenwing - which question are you reffering to, about other games not supporting button binds? Not to dismiss other games as being wrong, but I can't think of any other game that requires you to use opposing buttons together/rapidly so often (B+G/A+K/a:K/aB, etc). From what I know about SF, LP+LK/MP+MK/HP+HK are used, but easily pressed by your thumb alone. Some moves in this game are practically impossible without button binds or playing 'claw style', which I hate to do.

Hilde does benefit from binds because of shoulder charging (ease of use), grab breaks, and being free to use any non-charge move without having to drop the charge inside of an animation first. Though I feel that it really doesn't fucking matter because she's beatable and predictable anyway, not allowing Hilde that last binding advantage would be a much better option than banning people's mains.

People will complain about her no matter what though, so w/e.

Thank you, at least you're addressing my question. I also bolded another part of your statement.

Now with that being said, how does the community feel about my question; Should we ban the binds? And let's be sensible people. i'm not saying banning someone's character. But banning the ability to have 1 button for a 2 button command.

Again my logic is like this:

i play stick/pad. So i know what's it's like on both ends. But for people what want to say "stick players that use sticks have it easier because they can push two buttons easier."

Sooooooo.....i'd like to know the arguement there. It's still pushing two buttons. unlike binding to where i have to push 1 button for a 2 button command.

 

[Eyce_Theon]

Thank you, at least you're addressing my question. I also bolded another part of your statement.

Now with that being said, how does the community feel about my question; Should we ban the binds? And let's be sensible people. i'm not saying banning someone's character. But banning the ability to have 1 button for a 2 button command.

Again my logic is like this:

i play stick/pad. So i know what's it's like on both ends. But for people what want to say "stick players that use sticks have it easier because they can push two buttons easier."

Sooooooo.....i'd like to know the arguement there. It's still pushing two buttons. unlike binding to where i have to push 1 button for a 2 button command.

That idea wouldn't have anything to do with Hilde though. It's the fact that Hilde can have multiple buttons for A and B that allows her to get around dropping charges for other moves. OOFMATIC already suggested not allowing Hilde to bind A and B to more than one button to address this, and that'd be the only rule change I wouldn't mind.

Think about how much she COULDN'T do while charging in that case. If she was charging both A and B, her only options are to release a charge, use a K move, guard/GI/step/jump, or taunt. Essentially a far less formidable opponent.

EDIT: I'll elaborate a little on that because I have that kind of time. If Hilde was charging A but not B, she would be defensively ready to use C2A/C3A, but lose her major RO ability (aside from the crouching starter that leads to B+K?). She would gain access to a few linear pokes and a few useful B+K moves, her B+G grab for back RO and wall damage (command throw) but nothing too scary.

If she was charging B but not A, she would retain her fearsome RO combo (pretty easy to hit confirm and start charging A if C3B hits), but couldn't use the excellent auto-GI of her A charges. She'd be limited to short range options outside of C2B/C3B, but they're safe anyway. She'd also have A+G available, which is a long enough grab for the player to start a different charging pattern if they chose to.

Some of her best non-charge moves are actually A+B inputs, and were likely intended to coax players into finding a balance between charging and her regular movelist. If both charges are dropped at any point, these are pretty safe options to use. Of course, this Hilde playstyle would revolve around the mindgames of what is being charged and when, instead of the knowledge that both are being charged continuously that we currently play against.

I'd like to point out that I've put this much thought into this playstyle because I would play a no-charge Hilde or no-binds Hilde against the new or rookie players that I was introducing to the game back at WCU, and because I found it far more interesting than holding charges all day long.

 

[Chickenwing]

i'm glad you elaborated on that. So being that said that would bring up a rebuttal statement in which it would be:

if hilde players should allow 1 bind, we should too (assuming they're playing other characters)

So that's the difference between oofmatic's idea and mine. Simply put: not to sound like a dick, but i say no to all for a specific reason. To not hear retarded rebuttal's like that and to actually hear some nice rebuttals

:D

 

[BlackMambaMoan]

Ban these scrubafied characters.

 

[Eyce_Theon]

i'm glad you elaborated on that. So being that said that would bring up a rebuttal statement in which it would be:

if hilde players should allow 1 bind, we should too (assuming they're playing other characters)

So that's the difference between oofmatic's idea and mine. Simply put: not to sound like a dick, but i say no to all for a specific reason. To not hear retarded rebuttal's like that and to actually hear some nice rebuttals

:D

Well my whole post was basically a sidetrack from your idea, not really an answer, because your idea wasn't an answer to Hilde specifically. Having multiple inputs bound to one button is only for the ease-of-use of any character, and is helpful to anyone just starting out in the game. I see no issue with it because you could just as easily map shoulder buttons to single inputs like you mentioned, and press two buttons instead of one. There aren't many combos in this game that would get significantly harder if people were only allowed one input per bind, they would just have to practice a little to get used to it.

It's not like people become better players by using multiple input binding is what I'm saying. Skill in this game should be measured by who can best apply themselves mentally to each matchup and situation, not by who has more technical prowess at hitting more buttons at once.

 

[IdleMind]

Other binds double as A and B charges- B+K doubles as a B bind. A+B is an A bind, for example.
If your gonna say "she cant bind at all" because that's what you would have to do- then you should ban binds for ALL characters, which I'm willing to bet your not willing to do.

-Idle

 

[Eyce_Theon]

Other binds double as A and B charges- B+K doubles as a B bind. A+B is an A bind, for example.
If your gonna say "she cant bind at all" because that's what you would have to do- then you should ban binds for ALL characters, which I'm willing to bet your not willing to do.

-Idle

I realize multiple input binds count for charging as well, I was just adressing his idea seperately. I don't see the reason behind banning all binds for all characters however, as only Hilde's charge system benefits directly from binds in ways besides ease-of-use/not having to play claw-style. She's regarded as the best in this game BECAUSE of her charge system, so not allowing Hilde to bind As and Bs seems like a crowd-pleasing compromise.

 

[KingAce]

It's always easier to ban things from the get go than later.
So now that the damage is done, I would like to say I told you so...*cough*OOFMATIC*cough* I win again.

 

[spongebob]

If you get hit by the attack that leads into the infinite you deserve to be infinited lol

i get hit by it occasionally because i cant break throws so if sum mix's up running up to me and doing a throw or 663B I guess wrong occasionally :(

 

[Eyce_Theon]

It's always easier to ban things from the get go than later.
So now that the damage is done, I would like to say I told you so...*cough*OOFMATIC*cough* I win again.

I still don't see any post that explains how Hilde has 'damaged' anything, or how banning her will magically fix anything, so I don't see what you've won.

Assume I'm some scrub who bases his opinions on the results for EVO and Nats (lol silly rite) and please explain to me what has been damaged and how Hilde's eviction may fix it.

 

[KDZaster]

Because only two players stopped her.

 

[BatousaiNori]

Because only two players stopped her.

Do you know why 2 players stopped her? Cause there was only 2 tournaments where the best of the best were there. So we have to ban Hilde cause nobody in ATL can beat RTD? Or Hilde in Cali cause some people gave up and can't beat Cedric? You can't base regionals and local tournaments and decide to ban her. People who want to be good at this game should have studied you and SU's vids to see exactly how you did it, cause honestly, it takes more time to complain about something than it does to study.

I've made a few threads, talked w/Jaxel/ChaCha/Idle on ideas on how to improve the community, simply banning a char scrubs don't understand won't help advance our community. What about the 2v2 major I had in mind? That not only encourages people to keep playing w/their friends, but maybe even some vets will come out of the woodwork knowing they have a strong teammate. Lots of possibilities there. And I'm not the only one w/positive ideas.