The One True SCV Tier List/Character Discussion Thread

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  • S: Viola, Alpha Patroklos

  • A: *Cervantes, *Algol, *Yoshimitsu, *Patroklos, *Pyrrha Omega, *Pyrrha, *Natsu, *Tira, *Mitsurugi, *Aeon, *Natsu, *Voldo, *Maxi, *Xiba, *Ivy, *Astaroth, *Nightmare, *Siegfried

  • B: *Leixia, *Hilde, *Ezio, *Raphael, *Z.W.E.I.

* = IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER
 
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Reptile said:
I'm wondering how people actually toss the characters in classes like that. I mean what kind of thoughts do they give it besides "yeah that what she said".
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I put the two characters in SS tier because they have distinct advantages over the other characters in S tier. S+ would work if you like as well I just prefer SS.
 
With only the slightest disparity between each tier group, and based on the realistic disadvantage of execution barriers:

S: Viola

A: aPatroklos, Pyrrha, Pyrrha O, Cervantes, Mitsurugi, Patroklos, Natsu,

B: Algol, Hilde, Aeon, Yoshimitsu, Voldo

C: Nightmare, Xiba, Ezio, Siegfried, Astaroth, Tira

D: Raphael, Leixia, Ivy, Maxi, Z.W.E.I, Dampierre


With unlikely and unrealistically perfect execution, aPat, Yoshimitsu, Hilde, Maxi, Ivy, and Pat could go up a tier.

aPat is still top with moderate execution, but with perfect execution, his maximum JG punish, whiff punish, and 50/50 damage go through the roof, easily putting him on Viola's level.

Yoshimitsu's iMCF, done at perfect timing, limits every characters options heavily to the point where they can't continue offense without have to commit to shut it down. You need high advantage or specific moves that outrange but don't move the character close to him to beat it out.

Hilde, probably the most difficult character, is capable of very high damage with proper combo execution. The skill ceiling of managing her charges effectively, having the right charges levels at the right times, is also so high it doesn't make sense to consider it in a tier list like this one.

Maxi's B+K JF series plugs a giant hole in his game, whiff punishing.

Ivy's CS completes her character, but a similarly on-point opponent will break CS, which is partly why I put her so low in the first place.

Patroklos's A+B:A+B glitch is a pseudo-JF with a 2 frame window. At i30, it does half health or more. It makes most mids very risky to use at advantage, but it can also be used as a whiff punisher for big moves and as a guard crush followup. It can be ducked on reaction and punished heavily, but 130+ damage meterless can't be ignored. Certain characters get picked up by 1B BE, too, so damage can get to Viola levels.
 
I kind of expect this thread to get closed soon (which is why I only shared my opinion with sc.fr and gercalibur rather than 8WR until now) but if anyone wants to discuss my opinion on tiers please PM me because I'm pretty interested in this topic and I'm still undecided on a few characters. Seriously, if you want to justify why any of my tier positions are wrong, hit me up and I'd love to have a conversation about it. Anyhoo, here's my list...


SS : Viola

S: Alpha, Cervantes

A: Mitsu, Pyrrha, Pat, Algol, Omega, Asta, Natsu, Ivy, Hilde

B: Tira, Maxi, Yoshi, Nightmare, Siegfried

C: Xiba, Leixia, Voldo, Ezio, Aeon, Raphael, ZWEI

D: Dampierre
 
My gay ass list

S: Viola, Alpha Patroklos, Pyrrha
S-: Cervantes, Natsu
A: Omega, Tira, Mitsurugi, Algol
A-: Patroklos, Maxi, Ezio, Siegfried
B: Nightmare, Aeon, Voldo, Ivy, Astaroth*, Hilde*, Yoshimitsu, Raphael, Leixia, Xiba, Dampierre
C: ZWHY

* means they can move up or down, granted anyone can move but I view these to be the most volatile so to speak.

I also assigned minus ranks on certain tiers because 1. The differences between tiers are pretty damn small. 2. Characters present in minus tiers have excellent tools but in my opinion not on the level of the full tier above but still a little bit above the tier they are over. Hope that made sense. When B tier starts the order goes to rubbish. S to A- tier is sorta in order in my eyes.
 
(SINCE MY POST WAS DELETED, I'LL POST HERE AGAIN. THANK YOU)

STRONG TIERS: S-B

S: CERVY, ALGOL, GS TIRA
A: APAT, MITSURUGI
B: NIGHTMARE, NATSU, XIBA, ASTAROTH, MAXI, PYRRHA, VOLDO, PATROKLOS

NOT-SO-STRONG TIERS: C-F

C: IVY, VIOLA, SIEGFRIED, OMEGA, YOSHI, AEON
D: LEIXIA, EZIO, HILDE, JS TIRA
F: RAPH, ZWEI, DAMPIERE
 
S+ : viola
S : Apat
S- : Pyrrha, Pat
A : Cervy, Omega, Hilde, Natsu, Mitsu
B : Everyone I didn't mention
C : Damp, Raph

I based this off a character's potential at the highest level, within what's humanly possible. S is basically top tier, and I decided to give it plus and minuses cuz S+ and S- is totally something you'd see on a report card.
 
alright, here's my list. if anybody wants to discuss things with me, i will gladly accept PM's.

This is my opinion. I personally dont believe anything, including my opinion can be accurate without indepth matchup study of every character from every standpoint, but this is how i perceive the characters stacking up in SCV.

Characters are placed in ordered tiers, but within the tier are in no particular order amongst themselves. their names were typed into each respective tier simply as i thought of them.

You will notice i also list half tiers: that is because IMO the tiers blend together in SCV, but it is not so cut and try as every character is this tier or that tier. so i only put characters in + tiers that i believe standout between the tiers - they are too exceptional for the lower tier, but yet too flawed for the upper tier. I have placed no Tier higher than S tier - you could argue about which S tier character is stronger, but my general viewpoint of S tier are characters that stand out above the rest of the cast, and my only goal here is to put them into a position where they can be recognised.

S: Viola, Alpha Patroklos, Cervantes

A: Asta, Patroklos, Pyrrha, Omega, Algol, Mitsu**, Natsu

B+: Maxi, Ivy

B: Nightmare, Hilde, Tira, Voldo*, Xiba**,

C: Ezio, Siegfried, Lexia, Aeon

D+: Raphael

D: ZWEI, Dampierre

*= possible shift up 1/2 tier.

**= possible shift down 1/2 tier

Thank you for taking the time to look at my list, and again I am more than happy to take to discussion in PMs with anyone who wants to talk about things, whether in agreement, debate or in total disagreement. Have a nice day!
 
Reptile said:
I'm wondering how people actually toss the characters in classes like that. I mean what kind of thoughts do they give it besides "yeah that what she said".
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I base it on the space covered in the neutral game, ability to control the initiative (frames/interruptiblity/evasion) and ability to do damage.

Fact is, nobody plays every character at a high level, so all opinions are suspect.

@Slayer_X64 you forgot Yoshimitsu
 
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S: Viola

A+: Alpha Patroklos, Cervantes, Mitsurugi

A: Patroklos, Pyrrha, Ezio, Algol, Natsu, Astaroth

B+: Voldo, Nightmare, Tira, Maxi, Aeon, Pyrrha Omega, Yoshimitsu

B: Siegfried, Hilde, Ivy, Leixia, Xiba

C: Raphael

D: Z.W.E.I, Dampierre

I really don't have much to argue about because of how balanced the game is. The only thing I disagree with is A Pat being S or S+, or even on the same level as Viola. He aiight.
 
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS: Viola (can we please ban her?)
S: Pyrrha, aPat, Algol, Mitsurugi, Natsu
A: Cervantes, Oprah, Pat, Maxi, Tira
B: Errbody else, basically*
Party Hat: Zwei

*Two stipulations: first, there's really not much difference between A and B tier imo. All of these characters are more than viable--Aeon, just as an example of a character people have historically dismissed, is really fucking good. Second, I believe Astaroth is kinda un-tier-able. He's so heavily rock/paper/scissors that specific matchup things don't matter all that much since he's either murdering you or dying.

Here's the criteria I used: I'm attempting to differentiate characters based on their general matchup profiles. If you're in S or A, you have largely favorable matchups, with the difference between S and A tier being matchups against other good characters. For example, Pyrrha and Mitsu are just generally good, so they rank above a character like Cervantes, who has favorable matchups against most of the cast, but really struggles against someone like Pyrrha. In other words, a bad matchup vs a good character counts more imo than a bad matchup vs a shitty one.

The take-away here is that, if we discount Viola, I think this game is pretty darn balanced in terms of tournament viability.
 
I suspect Cervantes gets a lot of love because he's difficult to fight against--there's a serious learning curve. Honestly, it's kind of difficult to understand his limitations until you play him at a really high level, but what it boils down to is that you end up using a lot o f high-risk, low-reward moves in order to set up low-risk, high-reward launchers. If Cervantes' opponent stays disciplined and doesn't do random stuff, it forces him to take progressively greater risks in order to open 'em up, but how many people can truly play scv in a slow, disciplined manner?

His meterless damage, overall movement, and punishment game are all quite formidable, and most characters can't fight against him in a conventional sort of way. In my experience, folks seem to intuit tiers based on things like this. If a character doesn't play in a straightforward manner, we're more likely to assume that character is bad. Conversely, if a character requires a nonstandard strategy in order to fight him, we consider that character very good.
 
Sure but dont forget this

SCPartisan said:
2.) If you are going to argue someone's opinion on something they post, explain your own reasons. Simply disagreeing and saying nothing as to why is basically pointless and contributes nothing to the conversation.
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