JAGTHEGEMINI
[12] Conqueror
Omega deals more damage and has by far the better range due to DNS.
Phyrra is a bit safer in general and is slightly faster.
Phyrra is a bit safer in general and is slightly faster.
The One True SCV Tier List/Character Discussion Thread
- Thread starter SCPartisan
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TsunamiBye
[14] Master
Oh ok. Thanks for answering guys.
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- #63
Dr. Hates
Jerk.
My reasoning for this is that regular Pyrrha moves better, has better normals, has more safety (and a stocked CE means any time she lands a nontrivial hit it's 95ish damage, so her damage output doesn't bother me), mindless wakeup, etc. Her i11 AA alone is enough to make her superior to Omega just due to cheese factor.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
PYRRHA’S ADVANTAGES OVER OMEGA DON’T SEEM PARTICULARLY FRIGHTENING, BUT WITH OMEGA THE ADVANTAGES COMBINED ARE ALMOST ALARMING.
THE DAMAGE DIFFERENCE SHOULD BE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY WHEN RANKING OMEGA. OMEGA CE DOES 20 MORE DAMAGE THAN PYRRHA CE. DNS B JUST FRAME DOES 20 MORE DMG THAN PYRRHA 236B JUST FRAME. DNS B CAN RING OUT. OMEGA CAN BREAK GUARD MORE OFTEN OVERALL. OTHER MINOR ADVANTAGES: OMEGA 2K DOES 2 MORE DMG. OMEGA CE CAN INTERRUPT IN BETWEEN BB -> BB, BUT PYRRHA CE CAN’T DO THIS.
IN REGARDS TO OMEGA BEING 1 FRAME SLOWER ON AA, THE TRADEOFF IS THAT OMEGA DOES 2 MORE DMG ON AA, SO IT’S NOT A SERIOUS ADVANTAGE FOR PYRRHA, I'D SAY.
THE DAMAGE DIFFERENCE SHOULD BE TAKEN MORE SERIOUSLY WHEN RANKING OMEGA. OMEGA CE DOES 20 MORE DAMAGE THAN PYRRHA CE. DNS B JUST FRAME DOES 20 MORE DMG THAN PYRRHA 236B JUST FRAME. DNS B CAN RING OUT. OMEGA CAN BREAK GUARD MORE OFTEN OVERALL. OTHER MINOR ADVANTAGES: OMEGA 2K DOES 2 MORE DMG. OMEGA CE CAN INTERRUPT IN BETWEEN BB -> BB, BUT PYRRHA CE CAN’T DO THIS.
IN REGARDS TO OMEGA BEING 1 FRAME SLOWER ON AA, THE TRADEOFF IS THAT OMEGA DOES 2 MORE DMG ON AA, SO IT’S NOT A SERIOUS ADVANTAGE FOR PYRRHA, I'D SAY.
FleshMasher
[13] Hero
pyrrha 3B is safer (Quite spammable actually)but that's all i can think of for her atm.
PS.: I think only NS B:4 can RO and DNS B:4 can't.
PS.: I think only NS B:4 can RO and DNS B:4 can't.
Menace
RELINQUISH!
The main reason I put regular Pyrrha over Oprah in my list is cause of her SUPERIOR (to Oprah's) ability to make you duck/twitch duck. Her wake up, 50/50s, oki, grab game (whatever the correct terminology is) is annoyingly decent. This added to her being safer and quicker overall IMO puts her ahead of Oprah (just slightly).
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Silent Joel
[12] Conqueror
Depends which character you're playing against really, but overall Pyrrha is better.
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SCPartisan
Holy Moly
@MONEYMUFFINS
IMO, many of the moves that share a similar purpose between the two are unsafe on Omega's end though they give the same reward (or less).
Comparing a few key tools with similar use:
Pyrrha 66A: -10 on block/+6 on hit/28dmg, spins opponent "side turned" on hit and has decent TC frames (7-14).
Omega 66A: -12 on block/+6 on hit/28dmg, opponent still faces her on hit, similar TC frames but smaller and later window (8-13).
The major difference here is that Pyrrha's is pretty much safe to most of the cast save for Natsu(AA and A:6), aPat (CE), Cervantes (CE) and possibly Yoshi (iMCF punish possible?) while Omega's can be punished by much more of the cast at -12 despite the smaller reward on hit (no side turned on hit).
Pyrrha AA: i11, 22 damage, +7 on hit
Omega AA: i12, 24 damage, + 7 on hit
Both AA's are very good imo. Pyrrha's will have a bit more utility being i11 but I think it is strengthened by how many opportunities shes can use this move because of the rest of her movelist. Omega's is similar imo but they work differently because of certain moves and block situations.
Pyrrha 3B: i17/-16 on block (crazy pushback at mid to mid-long range)/breaks in 11. 3B ~ CE = 91 dmg + clean hit C chance/3B ~236B = 50 dmg.
Omega: 3B: i17/-18 on block (some pushback but less compared to Pyrrha's)/breaks in 11 and has some TC frames. 3B ~ CE ~ DNS B = 89 dmg(waste of meter but for the sake of comparing damage)/ 3B ~ DNS B = 57 dmg + forward RO.
So comparing these two launchers, Pyrrha's is safer with the bonus of more pushback on block while Omega's is more unsafe with less pushback but with the ability to RO and do more meterless damage.
Many characters have trouble punishing Pyrrha 3B when it's blocked due to the pushback, the -16 on block or both. With Omega, her 3B on block is technically launch punishable by a lot of the cast (though I wouldn't expect someone to do so unless the Omega player was doing nothing but 3B) for a decent reward of 57 dmg + potential RO. As an Omega player myself, I think it's just better to learn to whiff punish with either DNS B:4 or at least NS B:4/D/NS A ~ 236
4 as the damage reward is much greater.
Pyrrha 66B: FrC (force crouch on block), close mid range launch/back step killer (i23) on + frames, good reverse mixup situation depending on character.
Omega 66B: Long range launcher, -2 on block, decent spacing reset tool, slower startup frames (i26), catches rolls one direction.
Both have their ups and downs so it's hard to say which is better overall. Both are good for building guard damage but I feel Pyrrha's has a bit more utility because of the speed and FrC.
Pyrrha A+B: Longer GI window (4-13)
Omega: A+B Shorter GI window (4-9)
Muh pre-patch... :(
The 4 extra frames actually make quite a difference, but besides that they are fairly even just because of the options on GI and Omega's slight damage advantage off of the Horizontal GI.
I could keep going but I think I will just make a few smaller points and maybe build on this later (evasion ability and punishment are big points I haven't touched on).
Pyrrha has a lot more harassment options up close with things like 66A, 1K, 66B, AA, BB, 2K, 4K, 44A (did I mention this move is amazing btw?) and probably more. Omega can't do the same with a similar amount of success (she isn't really designed to do so imo) just because she is either slower on the moves or because they have more risk attached to them through punishment or evasion on the opponent's end. Omega has to open up opponents with 4B pressure, various block situations/whiff punishment or basic throw mid mixups. she lacks the moderately safe low pressure that Pyrrha has with 1K, but makes up for it in other areas. DNS B for instance becomes a huge pain for most of the characters that can't punish it (without meter) and opens up an extremely strong zoning/honesty maintenance/general life draining tool.
Guard break effectiveness depends on how your opponent plays and the character they're using. Overall, Omega is probably better than Pyrrha in this area, but her guard break ability is definitely something to look out for (though not as necessary since she has really strong hit level mixups with 1K, 2K, Throw + mids)
I'll end for now by reiterating a point I made earlier. If you were to compare matchups and the ins and outs of each of them all around the board between Omega and Pyrrha, you would likely end up seeing that they would be fairly close by the end.
tl;dr: Both characters fight the majority of the cast differently and do very well across the board. But IMO, Pyrrha excels in a few of Omega's harder MUs while Pyrrha fairs pretty well in most or all of them due to increased safety, better lockdown of opponents and more utility on strong tools.
IMO, many of the moves that share a similar purpose between the two are unsafe on Omega's end though they give the same reward (or less).
Comparing a few key tools with similar use:
Pyrrha 66A: -10 on block/+6 on hit/28dmg, spins opponent "side turned" on hit and has decent TC frames (7-14).
Omega 66A: -12 on block/+6 on hit/28dmg, opponent still faces her on hit, similar TC frames but smaller and later window (8-13).
The major difference here is that Pyrrha's is pretty much safe to most of the cast save for Natsu(AA and A:6), aPat (CE), Cervantes (CE) and possibly Yoshi (iMCF punish possible?) while Omega's can be punished by much more of the cast at -12 despite the smaller reward on hit (no side turned on hit).
Pyrrha AA: i11, 22 damage, +7 on hit
Omega AA: i12, 24 damage, + 7 on hit
Both AA's are very good imo. Pyrrha's will have a bit more utility being i11 but I think it is strengthened by how many opportunities shes can use this move because of the rest of her movelist. Omega's is similar imo but they work differently because of certain moves and block situations.
Pyrrha 3B: i17/-16 on block (crazy pushback at mid to mid-long range)/breaks in 11. 3B ~ CE = 91 dmg + clean hit C chance/3B ~236B = 50 dmg.
Omega: 3B: i17/-18 on block (some pushback but less compared to Pyrrha's)/breaks in 11 and has some TC frames. 3B ~ CE ~ DNS B = 89 dmg(waste of meter but for the sake of comparing damage)/ 3B ~ DNS B = 57 dmg + forward RO.
So comparing these two launchers, Pyrrha's is safer with the bonus of more pushback on block while Omega's is more unsafe with less pushback but with the ability to RO and do more meterless damage.
Many characters have trouble punishing Pyrrha 3B when it's blocked due to the pushback, the -16 on block or both. With Omega, her 3B on block is technically launch punishable by a lot of the cast (though I wouldn't expect someone to do so unless the Omega player was doing nothing but 3B) for a decent reward of 57 dmg + potential RO. As an Omega player myself, I think it's just better to learn to whiff punish with either DNS B:4 or at least NS B:4/D/NS A ~ 236
4 as the damage reward is much greater.Pyrrha 66B: FrC (force crouch on block), close mid range launch/back step killer (i23) on + frames, good reverse mixup situation depending on character.
Omega 66B: Long range launcher, -2 on block, decent spacing reset tool, slower startup frames (i26), catches rolls one direction.
Both have their ups and downs so it's hard to say which is better overall. Both are good for building guard damage but I feel Pyrrha's has a bit more utility because of the speed and FrC.
Pyrrha A+B: Longer GI window (4-13)
Omega: A+B Shorter GI window (4-9)
Muh pre-patch... :(
The 4 extra frames actually make quite a difference, but besides that they are fairly even just because of the options on GI and Omega's slight damage advantage off of the Horizontal GI.
I could keep going but I think I will just make a few smaller points and maybe build on this later (evasion ability and punishment are big points I haven't touched on).
Pyrrha has a lot more harassment options up close with things like 66A, 1K, 66B, AA, BB, 2K, 4K, 44A (did I mention this move is amazing btw?) and probably more. Omega can't do the same with a similar amount of success (she isn't really designed to do so imo) just because she is either slower on the moves or because they have more risk attached to them through punishment or evasion on the opponent's end. Omega has to open up opponents with 4B pressure, various block situations/whiff punishment or basic throw mid mixups. she lacks the moderately safe low pressure that Pyrrha has with 1K, but makes up for it in other areas. DNS B for instance becomes a huge pain for most of the characters that can't punish it (without meter) and opens up an extremely strong zoning/honesty maintenance/general life draining tool.
Guard break effectiveness depends on how your opponent plays and the character they're using. Overall, Omega is probably better than Pyrrha in this area, but her guard break ability is definitely something to look out for (though not as necessary since she has really strong hit level mixups with 1K, 2K, Throw + mids)
I'll end for now by reiterating a point I made earlier. If you were to compare matchups and the ins and outs of each of them all around the board between Omega and Pyrrha, you would likely end up seeing that they would be fairly close by the end.
tl;dr: Both characters fight the majority of the cast differently and do very well across the board. But IMO, Pyrrha excels in a few of Omega's harder MUs while Pyrrha fairs pretty well in most or all of them due to increased safety, better lockdown of opponents and more utility on strong tools.
MONEYMUFFINS
[13] Hero
PARTISAN:
MY ARGUMENT WAS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON’T THINK THEY BELONG IN THE SAME TIER. THEY SHOULD AT LEAST BE IN THE SAME CLASS, IS MY CONTENTION. I DON’T KNOW WHO IS NECESSARILY BETTER. BUT YOU SEEM TO THINK SIMILARLY.
ALSO, I DON’T THINK OMEGA 3B AND PYRRHA 3B SHOULD BE COMPARED SINCE THEY DON'T GENERALLY SERVE THE SAME FUNCTION. DNS B IS PROBABLY BETTER FOR WHIFF PUNISHING, WHEREAS 3B IS PYRRHA’S VERSION OF DNS B IN THAT SENSE. LIKEWISE, DNS B CAN’T BE PUNISHED EFFICIENTLY BY LOTS OF CHARACTERS, THE SAME WAY PYRRHA 3B CAN’T BE PUNISHED EFFICIENTLY BY LOTS OF CHARACTERS.
I SHOULD’VE EMPHASIZED HOW CRAZY OMEGA’S 236B:4 IS. 14 FRAME MID RING OUT. THIS HAS TO BE THE FASTEST METERLESS MID RING OUT IN THE GAME.
MY ARGUMENT WAS FOR PEOPLE WHO DON’T THINK THEY BELONG IN THE SAME TIER. THEY SHOULD AT LEAST BE IN THE SAME CLASS, IS MY CONTENTION. I DON’T KNOW WHO IS NECESSARILY BETTER. BUT YOU SEEM TO THINK SIMILARLY.
ALSO, I DON’T THINK OMEGA 3B AND PYRRHA 3B SHOULD BE COMPARED SINCE THEY DON'T GENERALLY SERVE THE SAME FUNCTION. DNS B IS PROBABLY BETTER FOR WHIFF PUNISHING, WHEREAS 3B IS PYRRHA’S VERSION OF DNS B IN THAT SENSE. LIKEWISE, DNS B CAN’T BE PUNISHED EFFICIENTLY BY LOTS OF CHARACTERS, THE SAME WAY PYRRHA 3B CAN’T BE PUNISHED EFFICIENTLY BY LOTS OF CHARACTERS.
I SHOULD’VE EMPHASIZED HOW CRAZY OMEGA’S 236B:4 IS. 14 FRAME MID RING OUT. THIS HAS TO BE THE FASTEST METERLESS MID RING OUT IN THE GAME.
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SCPartisan
Holy Moly
Good point about the 3Bs. I did kind of touch on it a little bit but I'll just leave it at that. Not much to really say.
236B:4 is definitely amazing , but other chars have similar options:
Natsu A:6 (Not mid on first hit but faster and not exactly duckable)
aPat JFT (i12 mid)
Yoshi CH 2aB/iMCF combos (i9 S.Low)
Not all mids but VERY strong RO tools with crazy speed.
236B:4 is definitely amazing , but other chars have similar options:
Natsu A:6 (Not mid on first hit but faster and not exactly duckable)
aPat JFT (i12 mid)
Yoshi CH 2aB/iMCF combos (i9 S.Low)
Not all mids but VERY strong RO tools with crazy speed.
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Party Wolf
Administrator
Xiba CH 3AB and Aeon CH 4B are also i14 ringouts
ZUZU
[10] Knight
I feel like those who have put Z.W.E.I.F alone on the bottom tier need to explain why that is. I just dont feel like he should be the only one there. He has tools that match or expose weaknesses of a few characters that have been placed above him. Aside from that is a fighting game balanced if the characters are spread well evenly across each tier? (likely wrong)
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ZOo00OOm
is dead
I'd like to know why a lot of players label Voldo as mid tier.
Signia
[13] Hero
Omega's NH 236B:4 at i14 is notable for it's ability to ring out at appreciable distances for punishing common reverse ringout moves which are often -14.
I find the most overlooked strengths of Omega, besides the already-mentioned guard crushing is meter dependency and the ability to fight at range. Omega doesn't need meter to do her damage off of mids and can instead play a strong GI game (GI-CE is a popular choice for characters with bad meter options), a CH-confirm or string-mixup game with 2B BE, which is as safe as DNS B, or save it for CE punishes. Omega never needs to get in like Pyrrha might need to; with DNS B/DNS~B (delay causes retracking) Omega can compete with any range.
For this reason, I see Omega as more of a turtle character and Pyrrha as more of a rushdown character. Interestingly, some people see it the opposite, which is odd considering the range disparity that DNS B causes.
I think if Omega players DNS B'd as much as Pyrrhas 3B'd, and hit the :4, we'd have a different opinion on Omega. Learn to do to fast double quarter circles, please....
I find the most overlooked strengths of Omega, besides the already-mentioned guard crushing is meter dependency and the ability to fight at range. Omega doesn't need meter to do her damage off of mids and can instead play a strong GI game (GI-CE is a popular choice for characters with bad meter options), a CH-confirm or string-mixup game with 2B BE, which is as safe as DNS B, or save it for CE punishes. Omega never needs to get in like Pyrrha might need to; with DNS B/DNS~B (delay causes retracking) Omega can compete with any range.
For this reason, I see Omega as more of a turtle character and Pyrrha as more of a rushdown character. Interestingly, some people see it the opposite, which is odd considering the range disparity that DNS B causes.
I think if Omega players DNS B'd as much as Pyrrhas 3B'd, and hit the :4, we'd have a different opinion on Omega. Learn to do to fast double quarter circles, please....
Norik
[14] Master
I think we're overlooking the damage of Pyrrha Ω's DNS B:4. 55 dmg (65 on JF) is amazing for an i14 TC mid.
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- #76
Bluegod
[11] Champion
Alot of you guys also forget to mention that Pyrrha is also harder to rushdown compared to Omega because of her overall better movement, her i11 aa, and multiple evasive moves like 22a, 22k, 22bak (The latter two also being TCs and the first two having tracking.)
The closest thing Omega has to these moves is 22b which is extremely linear, but it does have the added benefit of breaking the guard gauge after 9 uses.
The closest thing Omega has to these moves is 22b which is extremely linear, but it does have the added benefit of breaking the guard gauge after 9 uses.
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- #77
mkl
[00] Signia's Cheerleader
S+ Viola
S Alpha Patroklos Pyrrha Omega
A+ Cervantes Algol Pyrrha Nightmare
A Patroklos Algol Natsu Mitsurugi Ivy
B+ Siegfried Aeon Voldo Maxi Astaroth
B Xiba Ezio Leixia Yoshimitsu Dampierre
B- Z.W.E.I.
C Raphael
*This is my theoretical tier list based on absolute peak performance instead of ease of use and thus most malleable in good player's hands.
No fucking clue tier: Tira and Hilde. To this day I haven't fought a competent Hilde or Tira offline.
Speaking on my mains and their placement (Oprah and Yoshimitsu):
Omega is the closest Soulcalibur has come to having a straight up Kazuya (Soph was damn close in IV). In the sense that the character is designed to be an absolute monster in punishing on whiff and block, incredible range and speed of punishes, and ability to maximize damage. With good spacing, acute knowledge of frame data, and excellent execution I don't think she is all that far off of Alpha. The problem, as with Alpha, is that not many people can actually do any of that on a consistent basis so she ends up seeming like a sort-of bastardized version of Pyrrha.
Yoshimitsu is easily the most confusing character to fight against and can get away with tons of gimmicks and frame/tech traps. His wall game is bar none the best in the game and his ringout game is quite good as well. The speed he can interrupt offenses with iMCF can infuriate opponents and throw them off their game very quickly and he has a very good low in FC 3K. The problems start to arise when an opponent has properly labbed the matchup and can properly counter a lot of Yoshi's most damaging gimmicks, because without these Yoshimitsu is actually a pretty low damage character. None-the-less with iMCF, FC 3K, 214A, and a multitude of frame traps/tech traps/setups, he is still able to win in able hands. He just needs to think a little harder and play a little better than some of the elite characters.
S Alpha Patroklos Pyrrha Omega
A+ Cervantes Algol Pyrrha Nightmare
A Patroklos Algol Natsu Mitsurugi Ivy
B+ Siegfried Aeon Voldo Maxi Astaroth
B Xiba Ezio Leixia Yoshimitsu Dampierre
B- Z.W.E.I.
C Raphael
*This is my theoretical tier list based on absolute peak performance instead of ease of use and thus most malleable in good player's hands.
No fucking clue tier: Tira and Hilde. To this day I haven't fought a competent Hilde or Tira offline.
Speaking on my mains and their placement (Oprah and Yoshimitsu):
Omega is the closest Soulcalibur has come to having a straight up Kazuya (Soph was damn close in IV). In the sense that the character is designed to be an absolute monster in punishing on whiff and block, incredible range and speed of punishes, and ability to maximize damage. With good spacing, acute knowledge of frame data, and excellent execution I don't think she is all that far off of Alpha. The problem, as with Alpha, is that not many people can actually do any of that on a consistent basis so she ends up seeming like a sort-of bastardized version of Pyrrha.
Yoshimitsu is easily the most confusing character to fight against and can get away with tons of gimmicks and frame/tech traps. His wall game is bar none the best in the game and his ringout game is quite good as well. The speed he can interrupt offenses with iMCF can infuriate opponents and throw them off their game very quickly and he has a very good low in FC 3K. The problems start to arise when an opponent has properly labbed the matchup and can properly counter a lot of Yoshi's most damaging gimmicks, because without these Yoshimitsu is actually a pretty low damage character. None-the-less with iMCF, FC 3K, 214A, and a multitude of frame traps/tech traps/setups, he is still able to win in able hands. He just needs to think a little harder and play a little better than some of the elite characters.
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Rocktopus
[10] Knight
S: Viola - Obviously...
S- : A pat (If your execution isn't on point he becomes B tier)
A+: Pyrrha(No doubt) Algol (Not better than A Pat or viola but still good), Signia ( yoshimitsu mains him, not the other way around), Mitsurugi: (4b, bb, throws, 2k BE, ????....profit?)
A: Cervantes(Even without igdr, hes still solid), Patroklos (hes gotta fall in this area), Pyrrha Omega(Lower than pyrrha, but not by much), Voldo(2a, confusing mixups..)
A-: Natsu(High burst damage, good attacks), Ivy(She never ages?), Hilde(That long loop thats like el fuertes s.HP thingy from SF4), Nightmare (Crazy whiff punisher)
B+: Astaroth(He just seems so damn scary with the range and is it just me or does Astaroth seem like he has more health even though he doesn't?), Siegfried(Those mixups, and 3B), Maxi(He can get krayzie on you), Leixia(Low damage, good movelist), Tira!(Good damage, good low BE)
B: Xiba(That CE!), Ezio(that unblockable cancel that makes him turn on fire for cool factor), Aeon(he can't be below B tier), Raphael(Second best throw right after astaroth)
B-: ZWEI (Them unblockable setups)
C+: Dampierre( If you're lucky, you get a B tier character)
Mimics:
Elysium(That CE)
Edge Master (Access to female characters, and Signia but no algol)
Kilik(If you're lucky, you won't get Dampierre.)
S- : A pat (If your execution isn't on point he becomes B tier)
A+: Pyrrha(No doubt) Algol (Not better than A Pat or viola but still good), Signia ( yoshimitsu mains him, not the other way around), Mitsurugi: (4b, bb, throws, 2k BE, ????....profit?)
A: Cervantes(Even without igdr, hes still solid), Patroklos (hes gotta fall in this area), Pyrrha Omega(Lower than pyrrha, but not by much), Voldo(2a, confusing mixups..)
A-: Natsu(High burst damage, good attacks), Ivy(She never ages?), Hilde(That long loop thats like el fuertes s.HP thingy from SF4), Nightmare (Crazy whiff punisher)
B+: Astaroth(He just seems so damn scary with the range and is it just me or does Astaroth seem like he has more health even though he doesn't?), Siegfried(Those mixups, and 3B), Maxi(He can get krayzie on you), Leixia(Low damage, good movelist), Tira!(Good damage, good low BE)
B: Xiba(That CE!), Ezio(that unblockable cancel that makes him turn on fire for cool factor), Aeon(he can't be below B tier), Raphael(Second best throw right after astaroth)
B-: ZWEI (Them unblockable setups)
C+: Dampierre( If you're lucky, you get a B tier character)
Mimics:
Elysium(That CE)
Edge Master (Access to female characters, and Signia but no algol)
Kilik(If you're lucky, you won't get Dampierre.)
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WhYYZ
[10] Knight
I agree 100% here. Also even though I personally believe Oprah v phyrra is slightly for Oprah (see my tierlist 5.5-4.5) I still believe Oprah is the far better character. DNS B is pretty much unpunishable by the entire cast, it tracks step a lot, it isn't JG'd on reaction and it has a lot of range. next to 2363B from apat DNS B might be the best move in he entire game.
Also with a tier-list you have to think about how the perfect player would play with "insert character". I honestly can't believe Apat isn't in the same tier as viola with a lot of you. Hell, I might even go as far and say Apat is better than Viola. Also Algol should be up there maybe not par with Apat and Viola because his punish game is atrocious but damage-wise he's on par with Viola and he has that dumb Tauntgrab that makes it impossible to backstep, especially if he has meter.
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- #80
Bluegod
[11] Champion
DNS B unpunishable by almost the entire cast? Meterless yes, but with meter no. Pat, Ezio, Maxi, Pyrrha, Pyrrha omega, Leixia, Raphael, Apat, Tira, Cervantes all can CE punish DNS B for good damage. Also some characters such as Cervantes, Apat, Pyrrha, P omega, Mitsurugi, Natsu, Gloomy Tira (Sometimes Jolly), all have solid meterless punishment options for for DNS B.
Also trust me, a perfect Viola is much more deadly than a perfect apat. A perfect Viola would get 100+ damage every time off a simple 6b+k mixup (And oki afterwards for another 6b+k mixup lol.) Nothing Apat has can compare to this, even his otherworldy double JFT punishment options do not compare.
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