the problem with sc...

I'd rather have everyone's 8WR movement cover the same distance. That way, players can focus more on the offensive side of things. Plus it adds consistency.
 
BlackDragon37 said:
I'd rather have everyone's 8WR movement cover the same distance. That way, players can focus more on the offensive side of things. Plus it adds consistency.
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Next we should give everyone the same moveset so they can focus on applying those moves instead of learning different ones with each character.
 
SC4 is as deep as you want it to be. Not to mention you are often forced to change your fight plan based on character match ups. But when you get down to it there are quite a few ways one can win and that's interesting to me. I've yet to arrive at the ideal way to play my main character, never mind taking up secondary characters in any serious way. I'm sure many players are at that stage as well. The game is not shallow.
 
Impending_Doom66 said:
Next we should give everyone the same moveset so they can focus on applying those moves instead of learning different ones with each character.
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I note the sarcasm and all, but you're doing it wrong.

Offensive techniques are far more flexible than defensive techniques.You can do almost whatever the fuck you want with them in terms of individualising for a (3D in particular) fighting game to be an offensive game.

To do that to a any defensive technique in a 3D fighting game however turn it into a defensive fighting game, not an offensive one. I'll let you hang, draw and quarter me for wanting Soul Calibur to be offensive, not defensive.
 
i think there is an underlying problem with this thread. before i begin i do want to address something:

i am not an idiot. the vast majority of the sc community is, for lack of a better word, a group of idiots. i do not fall into this category by posting in this thread. i think that, overall, all the posters did an excellent job with this thread. it's the first thread that truly feels... retarted. the levels of stupidity achieved in this thread is far better than anything else thats been posted in quite a while. yea, some of the people posting here are "slower", but it's not bad and i'm certainly not insisting that it is.

now, you may be thinking "well, all forums are like this," and that's true to a point, but there's something that sc forums fundamentally lacks compared to most forums: douche bags. 8wr, for having stepping in all it's glory, is actually quite stiff. look at tekken... and its bullshit that no one cares about. that's just one bad example, but i'll refrain from using other games as i feel i've already made a pretty good example.



surprisingly there aren't too many of these options for bad players in sc. yea, soph has double angel step, and characters like voldo and yoshi have other options that they can use, but very seldom are they ever really used all that much. why? simply because i dont play versus good players. a person can effectively use voldo/yoshi/soph without referring to any of these deeper options and still win versus their moms. what it comes down to is essentially whether the opponent knows how to deal with those option effectively enough to force the opponent to use those other options (which very rarely happens when i play my mom in special versus).

so, in the end, what makes for a truly interesting match, for both the players and anyone watching, is defense. while that is impressive, it comes off as boring, because most people aren't that apt to focus on defense when an offense is so damned effective. it makes for a very small learning curve in remaining competitive.

why this came up?

i actually played against some truly meh competition recently. people who really knew the ins-and-outs of mashing with several characters. the sad part is that it was the first time i actually felt "like crying". i'm certainly saying i'm this amazing player that never loses (i win more than i lose by far, but that's really saying much and i'm chest-beating over it), but i am at a level when i know someone is really good at the game and they beat me with luck rather than just "oh, yea, they beat me, whatever." but i digress, the opponents i played against had a trash defense, and it made for a good game but, in the end, i couldn't help but feel as though "wow, why couldn't my mom do those JF's."

oh, and this is a call for flaming, simply discuss. that's it and that's all, so keep those shit comments rolling!.

yaaaaaaay, im part of the problem yaaaaaaaaay

seriously though, garbage thread
 
I think the problem with SC is that people keep looking for a problem with sc.

Its a great game.
Its well balanced.
And its a still very healthy franchise that we all know and most of us love.

Sure, it has its negatives but every game does.

/thread
 
There is a difference between step and 8wr.
Step actually dodges shit while 8wr mostly gets tracked.

In SC2 you could dodge and attack with shit like 22A. In SC4 22A will more than likely get tracked, and you will eat an attack. So you have to press 2 step check for the whiff...then attack.

In SC4 stepping is actually a skill.
 
Laswagga said:
I think the problem with SC is that people keep looking for a problem with sc.

Its a great game.
Its well balanced.
And its a still very healthy franchise that we all know and most of us love.

Sure, it has its negatives but every game does.

/thread
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did i not already say it was a great game and that it was fairly balanced? it doesn't mean it's perfect though.

@bldave: here's a good example... http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=S-pYwrXyMi0

what do i see in this vid? a lot of charges, a lot of forcing crouch to wsB with kilik, 2a 2k poking from both characters, some asura dance, and no stepping, only some spacing, which makes sense seeing as how one character is a charge character and the other has range... i'm sorry, but if you're going to call me out in my own thread please don't have vids posted that actually prove my point. you guys played a 3d game completely 2 dimensionally.

now tell me what players doesn't play hilde or kilik in essentially the same fashion? that match could have been anyone. a small example: during the 2nd match, the hilde hits you with a 2a+b, 2b+k, runs up and hits you with a 3ba, and it happens exactly the same way twice. i thought i was having deja vu.
 
8wr needs more threads like these.

Although there are a lot of unwanted posts/comments here and there, I like to read in-depth stuff concerning the game.

Keep it up!
 
The problem with SC is that the game is boring to watch unless you've got two good opponents ripping at each others' throats.

HAI GUYS, that's the problem with EVERY fighting game! The two games that look cool are Guilty Gear & BlazBlue, and those are cause it's really insane (interesting) characters and amazing animations. The game is also fun to watch when one person can perform 50 hit combos on a shitty player. WOOHOO LOOK AT THIS GAME IT'S SHINY! ONE CHARACTER HAS A PAPER BAG ON HIS HEAD, THE OTHER PLAYS A GUITAR! FUCK YEAH!

No, let's not talk about balance or competitiveness. Let's just talk facts, or at least facts that upon agreement/disagreement, nobody gives a damn and it's just what a casual observer thinks, and we really don't care. The game just isn't that flashy, it isn't that impressive.

The two players who are playing, it's flashy to them. When all you care about is the buttons and such, that's what's really important.
 
tribaL said:
@bldave: here's a good example... http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=S-pYwrXyMi0

what do i see in this vid? a lot of charges, a lot of forcing crouch to wsB with kilik, 2a 2k poking from both characters, some asura dance, and no stepping, only some spacing, which makes sense seeing as how one character is a charge character and the other has range... i'm sorry, but if you're going to call me out in my own thread please don't have vids posted that actually prove my point. you guys played a 3d game completely 2 dimensionally.

now tell me what players doesn't play hilde or kilik in essentially the same fashion? that match could have been anyone. a small example: during the 2nd match, the hilde hits you with a 2a+b, 2b+k, runs up and hits you with a 3ba, and it happens exactly the same way twice. i thought i was having deja vu.
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want to know what i see? you making an attempt to pick apart a video of mine, because i posted a rewrite of your terrible first post. In fact, this thread has been you being a grade A asshole to pretty much everyone that didnt agree with you.

Now, i could go ahead and take the high road, and point out how movement was used by both players to keep the RO game to a max or min (depending on which player you are) in the first match.
I could even explain to you that 2A+B, 2B+K is a combo, and that no ammount of movement is going to get you out of that, and that the 3b,a on wakeup hits because of a crouch, which is an attempt to avoid a throw (throws catch step, fyi) and that those two hits combo.

I could also take the low road and say that a player of your inexperience woulden't see that, or that you even choose to see what you wish to see.

OR

i could just mash the keypadboard with my face, which is what i choose to do!

afnbtbguhhpoprjoqpbioio

some people might think its a bit strange of me, but thats ok, im drunk!
 
Tribal: I think the problem with SC is that you suck at it. Hurry up and play me in a $1000 money match already. If you lose then you have to leave the community. FOREVER.
 
BLDave said:
want to know what i see? you making an attempt to pick apart a video of mine, because i posted a rewrite of your terrible first post. In fact, this thread has been you being a grade A asshole to pretty much everyone that didnt agree with you.
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whoa whoa whoa, i'm the asshole? how so? i've been doing nothing but defending myself from comments like yours, of which were completely unnecessary.

Now, i could go ahead and take the high road, and point out how movement was used by both players to keep the RO game to a max or min (depending on which player you are) in the first match.
I could even explain to you that 2A+B, 2B+K is a combo, and that no ammount of movement is going to get you out of that, and that the 3b,a on wakeup hits because of a crouch, which is an attempt to avoid a throw (throws catch step, fyi) and that those two hits combo.

first of all, i know 2a+b, 2b+k is a combo jackass, i was talking about how he hit you with the 3ba immediately after you got up from getting hit from that two times in two matches in the same exact fashion. it was just a perfect example of how i previously stated "hey, people fall into tedium and they tend to do the same exact things over and over again". how many 2k's to ws b's did you do? how about the 2a to asura that you did twice in a row (and even did one more time at the end of the match)? they are perfect examples of what i brought up earlier in the thread.

oh, and the ro game, no shit that people pay attention to that given that it's an instant loss (ahem, was ro even an issue in the 2nd match?). that's not what the point of this thread was. i'm asking how many moves did you fucking sidestep? please count them for me... neither of you sidestepped much of anything, and that's the point i'm making: "sc4 is STIFF".

I could also take the low road and say that a player of your inexperience woulden't see that, or that you even choose to see what you wish to see.

OR

i could just mash the keypadboard with my face, which is what i choose to do!

afnbtbguhhpoprjoqpbioio

some people might think its a bit strange of me, but thats ok, im drunk!

see?! all you stupid fucks keep posting in this thread and you're not making a fucking point. all you're doing is saying "omg tribal you're an idiot," but you do absolutely nothing in explaining how i'm so wrong. i keep asking the same fucking questions and you're not even close to answering them, you post something completely unrelated as if i was even talking about "ro's" or "ducking throws". you're just as ignorant and bad as cha cha, because both of you not only completely missed the point, but you're acting like you know what you're talking about.

Tribal: I think the problem with SC is that you suck at it. Hurry up and play me in a $1000 money match already. If you lose then you have to leave the community. FOREVER.

how does this at all pertain to what i'm talking about? the thread is not about me losing or winning, it's about stiff gameplay.
 
Comparing Tekken to Soul Calibur is somethin' I'd have trouble with since I thoroughly enjoy both games. So, in that respect, I'll focus on this defense vs. offense comparison first, as a liaison to a crude comparison.

I keep hearing about how boring defense is, and how exciting offense is to see. Honestly, for high level players (not including myself here), the most exciting matches are centered around two players with extraordinary defense.

When someone is playing as Amy, we aren't excited to see 33B, 66B+K, 236KK. It's a nice looking combo, but you wouldn't say it garners excitement or applause would you?
Even slightly more difficult combos like X's tech crouch throw JF4B+K strings. That one'll bring a smile to our faces, maybe.


But when I see a room full of tourney players come alive is when somethin like this happens, Picture This:

---Soph attempts her widely overused 1AA against an experienced Mitsu player::The Mitsu player jumps the first low and JI's (warble's) the second attack (we all yell out the letter "O" in unison, which soulja boy is trying to change to "U", but I digress)::He then attacks with 66B (but doesn't press the second B in the natural combo since it's a free 236B from Soph)::Soph replies with 236B anyway since, that's what us Sophie players do::Mitsu blocks and attempts a basic A throw::Soph employs a Cleo throw break by tapping A::they retreat... begin circling... and we all wait in eager anticipation to watch them clash again because that, was only the first 7 seconds.---

No characters were harmed in the above example... and look I love Tekken, but isn't that a little more exciting than watching some juggle?


Now to the Movement Issue:

Tekken and Soul Calibur are both great games but in terms of strategy, I'd have to give SCIV a definitive nod. Simply, because of the way the games make you feel.

The best examples I can give are the thoughts you might have at the beginning of a match playing either game.

Tekken: "I need to start my (insert favorite juggle string) as soon as possible; I need to make sure I don't get caught in his/hers early."
In playing this game, especially at the beginning, I feel like a knight on a horse getting ready to charge toward another one. Good times.

SC: ".............."
Who knows right?? There are too many ways to start a match. Wouldn't you agree that the 8 wayrun feature is a BIG part of breaking that non-linear thought pattern?
 
If you're gonna talk about watching matches, think about it from a casual/newbie perspective, not a hardcore perspective. Reason being that the hardcore can see the advance stuff in a match by looking at the in betweens, while the casual person can only look at it from face value.

Last I remembered, the casual audience favoured watching Tekken's matches over SC's (though this may have changed over time, so I could be wrong).
 
BlackDragon37 said:
If you're gonna talk about watching matches, think about it from a casual/newbie perspective, not a hardcore perspective. Reason being that the hardcore can see the advance stuff in a match by looking at the in betweens, while the casual person can only look at it from face value.

Last I remembered, the casual audience favoured watching Tekken's matches over SC's (though this may have changed over time, so I could be wrong).
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Why would I talk about watching matches from a newbie perspective on one of the few platforms where I can actually address the enthusiasts? Beyond that, between comparing 8WR with haha steps and wave dashes, this entire thread has had a hardcore overtone, has it not?

Newbs like bright lights and long combos. Hardcore appreciate technical mastery. Both are present in the game. But, why change it for newbs?

BlackDragon37 said:
I'll let you hang, draw and quarter me for wanting Soul Calibur to be offensive, not defensive.
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I'm not going to hang, draw or quarter you for anything, my question again is this:
Why would you want to change a game based on the whims of newbs?

That sounds like something a Namco executive would say to increase profits, not a gaming enthusiast.
 
There is a lot of underestimating casual audiences going on here. Patting yourselves on the back while trying to figure out the best patronization strategy to bring in new blood isn't very useful for anyone. Seriously, did you see how big the made Ivy's boobies? Bamco already did their part for the casual gamer. I think everyone should stop trying to figure out the have-nots of the fighting game world and focus one what they, personally, want out of the game.

Any time someone starts claiming to worry about a group they even don't belong to rather than what they want, my bullshit meter goes off the f'n charts. I get enough of that in all the ban so-and-so threads.
 
TCS_Yagami_Dark said:
Why would I talk about watching matches from a newbie perspective on one of the few platforms where I can actually address the enthusiasts? Beyond that, between comparing 8WR with haha steps and wave dashes, this entire thread has had a hardcore overtone, has it not?

Newbs like bright lights and long combos. Hardcore appreciate technical mastery. Both are present in the game. But, why change it for newbs?
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Oh I'm sorry. I thought there was talk of matches looking stiff.

I'm not going to hang, draw or quarter you for anything, my question again is this:
Why would you want to change a game based on the whims of newbs?

That sounds like something a Namco executive would say to increase profits, not a gaming enthusiast.
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Virtua Fighter's an offensive fighting game.

Tekken's an offensive game (unless stepping's also been individualised).

Dead Or Alive's an offensive game.

Why are they offensive games? Because their defensive techniques haven't been individualised. Amazing how the series critically acclaimed to have the deepest systems (i.e. VF) is in that group. And last I heard, it has the most difficulty in drawing new crowds.

And you're questioning me on how to change a fighting game "based on the whims for newbs"?
 
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