The Resolution thread!!

M0-T3MP35T

M0-T3MP35T

[09] Warrior
Ok, this thread is for anyone that has a GOOD, resonable solution to the many issues that plauge/threaten to plauge the Soul Calibur 4 tournament scene to voice their ideas as well as opinions about the issues (only if it helps reinforce that idea). A good example of a good constructive idea would be the suggestion that Hilde should be resticted to certain levels in tournament play (while I personally don't agree with this completely, it's a good start). The goal is to identify old/new problems, discuss, and look for fair solutions that can be agreed upon, while trying NOT to create new ones.

IMO, once a intellegent concenses can be agreed upon by either the majority of FREQUENT tourney players or proven key note players, these decisions should be enforced ASAP. Forget this after regionals talk...that may be too late. If the conclusions reached are truly upstanding and concrete with fair play at its root, I don't see why this would need to wait to be enforced. Regional tournout and nationals attendence might end up not being as good as you would hope (SC3 anyone?). An example of a bad idea would be to allow Hilde only (1) launch per juggle (not fair to the player practice/adaptation wise) or forcing her to only fight in the cage (taking away Hilde's character niche).


I feel like this is necessary because alot of the rhetoric and moot points are being created and fueled by people that A) Aren't serious competitors on the tournament circuit regardless of supposed skill level, B) Are new to this community and don't know/ arent concerned with the history of it, or C) Think they know whats up because they troll various forums, jocked a "legend" for 5 hours on AIM one day back in 02' or read a serlin pampflet writen by a 2D enthusiast mostly from the sidelines. They are turning these issues that are supposed to be discussed with a greater purpose in mind into political rants about censorship ie. nothing concerning the immediate problem. With that being said, ill start it off:

My Idea Concerning the Hilde Problem: Let Hilde's opponent get to choose (1) stage select in a 2 out of 3 set / (2) stage selects for 3 out of 5 (second select only applicable after loosing and no fully walled staged can be picked twice)

fair? yes, no

got a better one? lets here it!

-edit

Someone please change the title to "resolution" :/
 
The esolution thread!!

I was about to write "ban hilde" as a bad taste joke, but you did it for me already.
 
The esolution thread!!

It's because people feel
1) their opinions aren't being heard, and
2) everyone's just saying the same stuff anyway.

This is why I don't really fight anymore on these ban threads. It's just not at a point where anybody can be convinced one way or another.
 
The esolution thread!!

Do you people seriously...SERIOUSLY think that's a good idea? lol. That shit happens in every SC...and it always goes to shit competitively. Always! Just because you and your friends don't give a shit about certain people leaving to play BETTER games, doesn't mean it's a good thing. I mean, we all just want to play the game and not feel like we are wasting our time. Whats wrong with that?

Cedric, man...you play one character seriously and this is supposedly your first SC. How would you ever know how hard it is to fight a smart Hilde player (not necessarily you) with a not so top tier character? Like seriously, what is your anti strat for guessing wrong once in a small/medium size stage...and please don't say "don't". You picked the smallest stage in a random stage select...tuff break! Really??

fuck a ban, we should discuss.

note: I only voted "yes" in that stupid poll because the thought of banning Hilde is stupid, but I agree with the sentiment
 
The esolution thread!!

An idea, not sure how effective it would be, would be allow everyone, and make blind pick mandatory. Then again this might just help Hilde so tear into it if you like.
 
The esolution thread!!

This is my first fully competitive SC, I've been playing since SC1.

I don't know what you want from me, to prove my point should I play Vader against Hilde or is that not a bad enough matchup to matter? I guess I could try Nightmare but I haven't really played him for quite some time. I know how to fight Hilde vs Hilde (on walled stages and off) because I have an advantage knowing what charges the other one has from experience. You can begin to nullify her launching you by taking risks only when the chance of you being rung out is lower (also positioning). I'm not perfect so sometimes I slip up, but to put this into perspective... if someone randoms a walled stage against me I just shrug even if it's someone like cervantes.

For the record again, I came from competitive Guilty Gear. I'm use to Eddit having great matchups and unblockable setups that can eat people alive. I'm use to the fact that making a mistake or two at the wrong time will get you killed (I played ABA, if I ever got knocked down 2-3 times I could be instant killed in certain matchups). So this to me is absurd. The more matchup experience you have vs Hilde the better off you will do.
 
The esolution thread!!

...and this is NOT about Hilde, it's about this community agreeing on things for the better...important things without just dissmissing them because they are hard to talk about. And if you do not play in tournaments, your opinion doesn't matter concerning this.

edit-

Cedric, I singled you out because i respect your opinion, not because I am against you and the way you play. You seem to be making this whole ban Hilde thing into a Ban Ceirnian thing...and i don't think it was ever about that. About the first SC thing...thats only what ive heard. Hence "supposedley".
 
The esolution thread!!

Oh, then I'll stick to what I first said. I agree with Tiamat that everything should remain unbanned until tournament results show evidence otherwise.

[edit] I never assumed it was a ban me thing. I don't think I'm gods gift to calibur, I just happen to be a pretty good player who learned how to play in a strong region and decided to pick up Hilde back in the pre-death combo days. However I feel like I have to speak up against all this ban talk or else what happened to Algol will happen again.
 
The esolution thread!!

It's not simply dismissed altogether. The subjects of bans has been talked to death, probably many times before I got here (not that I've been here that long). We are simply not going to reach a consensus on anything for this subject, so we will forever remain a divided community. That. Is. It.
As long as my Astaroth is legal, I'm going to play against whatever the field has. If Astaroth gets banned, well, we'll see if I'm able to adapt well enough that I can be good with someone else.
 
The esolution thread!!

Who said anything about bans?

Way back when, with the whole Algol thing...I said I personally didn't care, I'd fight it. Bubble + backdashing strat was stupid and at the time it was bad for the community...hence he was banned. As we learn new things about the game, we should reconsider these things. If people want to allow Algol + star wars ...more power to them. But allowing something somewhere and banning it somewhere else isn't nessasary if these characters truly do add to the game. If Algol's not being broke truly isn't just an opinion, and is NOW closer to fact...that shouldn't be hard to prove. This is why i think everyone is warming up to this unban everyone stuff. But stuff like a post I read in the Unbanning thread, where DINO said that he beat Oof in a first to 6 or something like that said that it's possible to beat Algol with Taki bothers me. I think it would be more accurate to say that DINO can beat Oof than taki can beat Algol. Based on tools, Algol should never loose this fight.

If you want to allow Algol in all his glory, that's definately NOT good for the long run. Somebody from a region that hasn't unbanned Algol should suggest a SERIOUS compromise, or just unban him across the board.

This thread is just the place to do it w/o all the unnecessary spam. That was my only intention in creating it. Show some maturity people.
 
The esolution thread!!

Just pointing out, whether a character is broken or not is never something that can be a fact. It is entirely based in game theory, which is itself opinion.
 
The esolution thread!!

M0Tempest, yeah Dino beat me some matches Taki vs Algol but keep in mind that those were casuals, not a money match or a tournament, so I wasn't necessarily playing to win but more to test out different strategies with him. But even if it were a tourney match and he beat me in that match up it wouldn't be because of the character, it would be because of the player. Same goes for every matchup. When I fight an Algol, or Hilde or whatever, I'm not thinking so much about the character, I'm thinking more about the player controlling that character and what their habits and playstyle is like.

In this game it's always more about the player than the character. Because otherwise if Algol was in fact broken then and made it about the character and not the player, then you would see Algol players winning every tourney that he has been allowed in. Which has hardly happened.
 
The esolution thread!!

M0-T3MP35T said:
But stuff like a post I read in the Unbanning thread, where DINO said that he beat Oof in a first to 6 or something like that said that it's possible to beat Algol with Taki bothers me. I think it would be more accurate to say that DINO can beat Oof than taki can beat Algol. Based on tools, Algol should never loose this fight.

If you want to allow Algol in all his glory, that's definately NOT good for the long run. Somebody from a region that hasn't unbanned Algol should suggest a SERIOUS compromise, or just unban him across the board.
Click to expand...

You say based on the tools, Algol should never lose to Taki. This demonstrates that you underestimate the power of research and ingenuity. Just because you do not see the way does not mean that the way does not exist.

As for the second part quoted, you say allowing Algol is bad for the game in the long run. First off, how do you know this? You don't. Furthermore, you say that areas which do not unban him should do a compromise or he should be unbanned everywhere. Earlier you said that algol being unbanned everywhere is bad for the game in the long run, so why would you even suggest the second option?
 
The esolution thread!!

OOFMATIC said:
M0Tempest, yeah Dino beat me some matches Taki vs Algol but keep in mind that those were casuals, not a money match or a tournament, so I wasn't necessarily playing to win but more to test out different strategies with him. But even if it were a tourney match and he beat me in that match up it wouldn't be because of the character, it would be because of the player. Same goes for every matchup. When I fight an Algol, or Hilde or whatever, I'm not thinking so much about the character, I'm thinking more about the player controlling that character and what their habits and playstyle is like.

In this game it's always more about the player than the character. Because otherwise if Algol was in fact broken then and made it about the character and not the player, then you would see Algol players winning every tourney that he has been allowed in. Which has hardly happened.
Click to expand...

Sounds like we're on the same page to me...

About that last paragraph, though I think that is yet to happen because people aren't playing Algol at his maximum effectiveness...I concur, and say Socal should Unban Algol.

im just one, i'll try to get other Socal player to come in with their ideas
 
The esolution thread!!

M0-T3MP35T said:
think that is yet to happen because people aren't playing Algol at his maximum effectiveness
Click to expand...

What? That's just a theory. Hell I could say Talim is unbeatable at "maximum effectiveness" and it would be just a valid a statement as yours is, because there is no evidence of that.
 
The esolution thread!!

How about no 44K or whatever that kick is that flings you halfway across the screen. That would be nice. Also, banning the seesaw stage and the labyrinth stage among others when fighting hilde would be cool. Idk, people got so worked up over bans it's almost a crime now to even speak of it. It's alright to ban, you just have to do it wisely.
 
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