Tier Discussion

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Actually as an astaroth player, I rate him in mid tier at best. His BnB quick stuff doesn't lead to very much damage, and his more damaging stuff is heavily telegraphed, not to mention that many of his "combos" (not real combos) involve 50/50 grab situations, compared to other characters that have guaranteed combos.

Astaroth is still a turtling character, in a game that heavily favors aggressive/rushdown styles. At least that's how I play Astaroth, don't know about the rest o' y'all.

This could simply be a case of player-character bias on my part, he just doesn't seem like he has quite the "oomph" that top tiers have.

@ChaosX

I do agree that Omega is high tier, as well as xiba.
 
I don't think Algol is top tier. He still relies on meter to do big damage and his step killers are either too slow, unsafe or lack damage.

Dampierre is pretty low on the tier list but I wouldn't say he's the worst. He does have pretty good whiff punishers and he does have two good throws that can ring out. His CE packs a real punch now as well.
 
I never played Broken Destiny and why should it matter? I'm talking about this game. As far as I know, he doesn't have any infinites in SCV.
 
FallenAngelII said:
I never played Broken Destiny and why should it matter? I'm talking about this game. As far as I know, he doesn't have any infinites in SCV.
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3A x infinity near a corner. Easy.

inb4 "not infinite" - go do your learnin' on your own including why this is relevant to "Hilde infinite = S-tier." Not your personal tutor.
 
Early, post-patch thoughts:

Top Tier: Alpha, Cervantes
High Tier: Algol, Astaroth, Ivy*, Mitsurugi, Omega
Upper-Mid Tier: Lexia, Nightmare, Pyrrha, Viola, Voldo*
Mid Tier: Aeon*, Hilde*, Maxi*, Natsu, Patroklos, Siegfried, Tira*, Yoshimitsu
Lower-Mid Tier: Raphael, Xiba*
Low Tier: Dampierre, Zwei

* = Not really sure.
Edit: Not taking any infinites into consideration.
 
Only reason I don't think Asty is high tier is because he's kind of inconsistent. You guess wrong, you take a lot of damage, you guess right, you take no damage and continue pressure. Just seems like a fundamental flaw with him. Obviously there are players out there like Saitoh who make it all seem like cake, but even then, a lot of match-ups are heavily against his favor, whereas unlike a character like NM has better all around match-ups in my opinion because he doesn't rely on grabs connecting. His command grabs can still be ducked and punished, 66K and 4B are sometimes the only answers he has to some characters when they're in his face, and then it's just guessing again wether a grab is coming or one of the aforementioned moves.
 
I like it nice and simple. 3 categories is all I need:

High tier: Alpha, Omega, Algol, mitsurugi

Mid tier: Cervantes, Astaroth, Nightmare, Siegfried, Ivy, Viola, Pyrrha, voldo, yoshimitsu, Hilde, Maxi, Natsu, Tira, Pat, Xiba. Devil Jin, Leixia

Low Tier: Zwei, Dampierre, Raphael, Ezio,
 
My list post patch so far. Within a Tier earlier mention means higher placement overall, i.e. alpha pat es #1 overall.
High: Alpha pat, Algol, Nightmare, Pyrrha, Omega, Cervy, DJ.
Mid: Mitsu, Asta, Natsu, Viola, Hilde, Maxi, Pat, Xiba, Aeon.
Low: EZ-O,Ivy, Voldo, Yoshi, Tira, Leixia, Zwei, Damp, Raphael.

Still not too sure about Aeon. I mean the buffs are cool and all, but dont adress his general problem. Playing with Aeon feels like playing a turn-based game. You attack, get blocked, offensive stops entirely. Also FLY still shit.
 
Post patch.

Top: Cerv, Alpha
High: NM, Pyrrahs, Pat, Mitsu, Asta, Hilde, Viola, Natsu
Mid: Sieg, Maxi, Lexia, Tira, Aeon, Ivy, Xiba, Yoshi, Voldo, Ezio, Algol
Low: Damp, Raph, Zwei

From my point of view the patch did a great job balancing the game regardless of what the haters say.
 
listening to crysack incorrectly whine and bitch about how natsu isn't that "strong" has left a distasteful feeling after reading his numerous comments (on other threads too).
 
WuHT said:
listening to crysack incorrectly whine and bitch about how natsu isn't that "strong" has left a distasteful feeling after reading his numerous comments (on other threads too).
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Forgive me, oh wise sage, for I should not express my opinions on the internet.

How about you post something relevant to the discussion rather than launch quasi-ad hominem attacks?
 
Crysack said:
Forgive me, oh wise sage, for I should not express my opinions on the internet.

How about you post something relevant to the discussion rather than launch quasi-ad hominem attacks?
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Which of the following comments did you think were reasonable ? Keep in mind these were all pre-patch. If anything, I am being unforgiving because I'm still bringing them up. I don't see why you think they're attacking you as a person, as it was implied that your insistence that natsu wasn't a strong character pre-patch made this thread stupid.

Crysack said:
Why is Natsu that high?
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Crysack said:
I'm sorry, but I still don't understand why Natsu is considered (by most, it seems) to be a top tier character. The only thing she really has in her favour is her high damage - but it is offset by the fact that most of her POS stuff is unsafe and her big combos require counter-hits (which are pretty prevalent in SC, but still). In my limited experience playing as her, she also seems to struggle a lot against Nightmare (and even Siegfried) players who are particularly meticulous about their spacing, as she doesn't seem to have any way to get in. Against Pyrrha, most of her POS setups into a CH combo seem to end up with Natsu eating a stab to the face.

I don't know, maybe someone can enlighten me about this.
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Crysack said:
From a character perspective, not so much. From a balance perspective, it does have a degree of logic. Natsu's damage is high to compensate for the fact that she has terrible range, a reliance on CHs (not such a bad thing in this game, but still) and a lot of her POS stuff is pretty unsafe. We've already seen several times what happens when someone spaces well against Natsu in several tournaments - including final round. I suspect Natsu will drop to low-mid or mid-tier after this patch.
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Crysack said:
Er, doesn't that pretty much cripple Natsu's oki game and combos?

Why would anyone want to play a character with terrible range, no mixups, mediocre damage and who is unsafe to boot? That's the sort of change that would drop her to low/low-mid tier.
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All of them look pretty reasonable to me. I may be incorrect, but those were the impressions I got upon dabbling in Natsu since the game's release as well as watching a number of tournaments. I think she was mid-high tier back then and she is low-mid to mid-tier now.

What doesn't look overly reasonable is implying that someone's argument is 'stupid' without offering a well-reasoned counter-argument. You don't agree? Fine, but what you are currently doing, in my opinion at least, amounts to shit-posting.
 
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