Tira - Video and Discussion Thread

Violent_Vodka said:
It could possibly be like a wall combo I have with Hilde..
a+gBE W! 66bBE W! (A+B) charge 2 A ~grab.
Occasionally, the last grab (usually back, depending on angles 'n' junk) will reset the damage, doing its full/natural damage, but still chaining in the combo.
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Got to love forced back turns. Tgat makes sense to me, the stun juice probably runs out and you get a bak-through anyway.
But that video didn't look like it couldn't be a combo.
 
I did a bit more research on it to see if I could replicate it. Turns out if you delay it slightly and hit the GS BT B+K on the frame they hit the ground, it deals ground hit damage (30 base damage instead of 10) but still combos. You can't hit 4K from the state it puts them in but you have enough time to 666B. Like 4K, BT B+K on ground target will put them in Stun state and scale followups.

Compared to getting an air B+K hit and then 4K, a perfectly timed ground hit B+K does a very small bit more damage than those two hits combined and has less combined self damage + JS revert chance. It's a really difficult judgement call to make on JS 66B BE actually getting a GS switch for it to apply, though. Normally I just G 4K either way and work from there.

-Looking at it again, I noticed my guard meter went from blinking yellow to red for doing manual Guard Impact...?
 
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Ryoka said:
I did a bit more research on it to see if I could replicate it. Turns out if you delay it slightly and hit the GS BT B+K on the frame they hit the ground, it deals ground hit damage (30 base damage instead of 10) but still combos. You can't hit 4K from the state it puts them in but you have enough time to 666B. Like 4K, BT B+K on ground target will put them in Stun state and scale followups.

Compared to getting an air B+K hit and then 4K, a perfectly timed ground hit B+K does a very small bit more damage than those two hits combined and has less combined self damage + JS revert chance. It's a really difficult judgement call to make on JS 66B BE actually getting a GS switch for it to apply, though. Normally I just G 4K either way and work from there.

-Looking at it again, I noticed my guard meter went from blinking yellow to red for doing manual Guard Impact...?
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Damn, all sorts of wierd in your video. Does GI'ing receive guard damage but negate breaks? That wouldn't really surprise me if true.
Also, nice tidbit of information. Though you kind of have to commit to any one option after JS 66B BE. I can react accordingly for a G~4K or a GS BT B+K Usually, but delaying would definitely throw that off.
 
Ryoka said:
stuff
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The thing about gaurd breaking is there are certain points (typically around just turning red) in which you may be just guarding or GIing in which guard may go from red to yellow. None of these options really restore the Guard. Also on the combo, the timed BT B+K stuns, so it weakens the JS 66B BE loop, so it is both a gift and a curse in that regard. Actually the combo may be Ukemi JGable, need to test.


edit: Also Slade would know more about the guard turning yellow after certain points more than me, I recomend asking him
 
xyerith said:
The thing about gaurd breaking is there are certain points (typically around just turning red) in which you may be just guarding or GIing in which guard may go from red to yellow. None of these options really restore the Guard
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I'm pretty sure they made Just Guard restore guard slightly.. I remember hearing them say that during production.
 
Seran Zealot said:
Damn, all sorts of wierd in your video. Does GI'ing receive guard damage but negate breaks? That wouldn't really surprise me if true.
Also, nice tidbit of information. Though you kind of have to commit to any one option after JS 66B BE. I can react accordingly for a G~4K or a GS BT B+K Usually, but delaying would definitely throw that off.
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Yeah it's an interesting bit of information but in all likelihood isn't that practical. Hitting GS BT B+K at all still switches back to JS significantly more often than 4K, and having to time the B+K just right introduces a significant margin of error. It's hard to justify that for the 7 damage increase of getting the B+K just right.
However, doing 30 damage which gets through guts and KOing there was a pleasant surprise. Looking again I could've just did 666B BE right after 4A to KO without taking chances with 4K, though...
 
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xyerith said:
The thing about gaurd breaking is there are certain points (typically around just turning red) in which you may be just guarding or GIing in which guard may go from red to yellow. None of these options really restore the Guard. Also on the combo, the timed BT B+K stuns, so it weakens the JS 66B BE loop, so it is both a gift and a curse in that regard. Actually the combo may be Ukemi JGable, need to test.


edit: Also Slade would know more about the guard turning yellow after certain points more than me, I recomend asking him
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Ryoka said his guard went from yellow to red, not red to yellow.
And the stun is why we are questioning it in the first place, because it looked like it dealt extra damage there.
 
Seran Zealot said:
stuff
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that is essentially the same thing, the guard acts wierd during that point of damage to it. Violent_Vodka, JG rerstores absolutely no guard, again the guard just acts wierd at that point, so if you have questions it's best to ask Slade.

On the stun, I already talked with Ryou about this before he came to his conclusion (though again I already had my supiscions and told him, I'd test it, but he went ahead and tested it himself which was pretty cool on his behalf), the reason is because of a slight delay in the BT B+K which caused its property to change from air hit to grounded. This property is the same with 4K where if you delay 4K in a 3B combo you get a stun (Though you also have to delay 4A for it to work aswell) in which case if you do cause a stun you'll deal some 2-5 more damage for following 66B/666B.
 
ZUZU said:
And this topic should belong in the general discussion thread.
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I agree , I was considering moving the conversation to that thread, but at the time it seems that the conversation hasn't derailed the thread as of yet. It still pertains to the video, and this is the video and discussion thread(discussion is allowed in a somewhat limited way). If it does become a different topic entirely, I will be sure to move it.
 
Hi! Totally new to this forum and basically to this game. I'm a Tekken player going back years and years, but SCV really caught my interest and Tira in particular. The local fgc I'm a part of had a small tour in this game recently and I managed to get to the top 3. My games in loser finals start at 01:13:00 at this link: http://www.twitch.tv/headquarterstream/b/482664092 and after that I'm in grand finals.

Any pointers? :) Both Tira and general SCV pointers are most welcome.
 
guice said:
Hi! Totally new to this forum and basically to this game. I'm a Tekken player going back years and years, but SCV really caught my interest and Tira in particular. The local fgc I'm a part of had a small tour in this game recently and I managed to get to the top 3. My games in loser finals start at 01:13:00 at this link: http://www.twitch.tv/headquarterstream/b/482664092 and after that I'm in grand finals.

Any pointers? :) Both Tira and general SCV pointers are most welcome.
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Not bad at all. Most of your improvement will come just by playing a lot, particularly in learning matchups so that you know when to duck and / or punish the other characters' moves. Use GS 3B or GS 3A BE to punish when possible; otherwise, 4K is very fast, 3K has good range, and wrB or GS 4B can be used to punish whiffed highs (including grabs).

Tira's quite a tough character to use because you have to juggle the JS and GS states. Work strategies into your game to stay in GS where possible. In GS she's toptier while in JS she's bottomtier, so work on maintaining GS by using meter (especially 236K BE) and taunt, as well as some chance moves like GS666B and 4K. Remember that you will always switch state when you hit 40% health, and you really want to be in GS at the end of a round: even though she damages herself, you can use different combos to minimise self-damage while still dealing a chunk to your opponent.
 
Age_of_Truth said:
Not bad at all. Most of your improvement will come just by playing a lot, particularly in learning matchups so that you know when to duck and / or punish the other characters' moves. Use GS 3B or GS 3A BE to punish when possible; otherwise, 4K is very fast, 3K has good range, and wrB or GS 4B can be used to punish whiffed highs (including grabs).

Tira's quite a tough character to use because you have to juggle the JS and GS states. Work strategies into your game to stay in GS where possible. In GS she's toptier while in JS she's bottomtier, so work on maintaining GS by using meter (especially 236K BE) and taunt, as well as some chance moves like GS666B and 4K. Remember that you will always switch state when you hit 40% health, and you really want to be in GS at the end of a round: even though she damages herself, you can use different combos to minimise self-damage while still dealing a chunk to your opponent.
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Thank you! Lots of good advice right there. I think I have an OK grasp of JS and GS, in theory at least, but sometimes in matches I kinda freeze or do the wrong thing when I'm actively thinking about it. I guess it's what you say, just play and it will become more natural over time.

I personally feel that I'm using updraft way too much, at least a lot of the times in the wrong places and for the wrong reasons. And my meter management is pretty horrible.
 
guice said:
Thank you! Lots of good advice right there. I think I have an OK grasp of JS and GS, in theory at least, but sometimes in matches I kinda freeze or do the wrong thing when I'm actively thinking about it. I guess it's what you say, just play and it will become more natural over time.

I personally feel that I'm using updraft way too much, at least a lot of the times in the wrong places and for the wrong reasons. And my meter management is pretty horrible.
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Yeah I have the same problem with freezing, you do have to think about a lot of stuff while playing Tira, but imo it's worth it because she's one of the more varied and interesting characters to play in this game.

Updraft in theory is pretty weak, but it can take opponents a while to get used to it. Once they are aware of its weaknesses you can only use it sparingly, with surprise factor like a jack-in-the-box, to do things like punish a predicted whiff at far range or get away from the ring edge.
 
Yeah, Updraft is baaaad. It has its uses in some scenarios, yes.. but all of the inputs are unsafe, and you can step to avoid B/K inputs and then guard the A input..
 
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