To what extent...

my only problem with natsu is that unblock bomb wen your slamed to the floor
if you dont uke, its a free continuation

you get up, knocked into the air
stay down, rolled to the side

i dont feel moves like that should be a free and safe set up from the floor

wait after a few natsu matches, it seems you cant even escape it if you uke, now its REALLY far to safe

also to add to this "is natsu OP debate"

if you think about this from a non "master of the soul calibur" standpoint, theres no good reason why some one who dosent know every nook and cranny of a character should lose HORRIBLY to them.
i know not alot of hardcore gamers like to hear this, but not everyone has the time or is willing to spend it mastering this game, and alot of people like me are really new to the game as well
a character shouldnt totaly destroy you just beacuse of any if those 3 factors

so what if shes bad against 2 other characters? theres still a whole roster of people she destroys, other characters have bad match ups too
and so what if shes easly beaten by people who have played this game since 1997 and remember the entire cast of ANYONE whos ever ben in the game AND there attack moves and names by heart because theres 2 problems with that logic

1. you assume natsu has no more to her, and even if true-
2. that just means she needs a nerf AND a buff, taking away the bad and giving a bit more to make up for it

if i were to put this into a overly long metaphore:
i can be 60 yards away from you with a satilite laser pointed at you, while you shoot a desert eagle at me, it does not make the satilte any less overkill, it simply means i need to switch out for my own pistol as well
 
DCLzexon said:
my only problem with natsu is that unblock bomb wen your slamed to the floor
if you dont uke, its a free continuation

you get up, knocked into the air
stay down, rolled to the side

i dont feel moves like that should be a free and safe set up from the floor
Click to expand...


@DCLzexon: Getting rolled to the side is actually good for you. Natsu has no other way to continue the offense after she does 2A+B (unblockable bomb) if you play dead, other than to try to quickly close that gap and start over. From my experience, the hitstun you take while grounded is minimal, so you can recover at a very comfortable position against Natsu; add to that the fact that she has pretty bad range when compared to the rest of the cast, then you've actually forced Natsu to reset her offense from there. I mention this early on in this very thread.

She has ways to set it up, and she can even cancel it into FC/WS state. You should be on the lookout for any of her options at this point. Recover too late, then you might eat a CH WS K if you're trigger happy (don't mash attacks when recovering, just hold guard). Best bet is to not mash when she's comboing you and just take it until you fall. DON'T TECH until you're sure she's not doing 2A+B (unblockable bomb). A lot of Natsu players will try to force you to tech into PO (her crouching special stance), or PO 8 (HO)_2 mixups (that teleporting stance she does in PO where she jumps up really high).

Of all the options she has out of her PO (her special stance), the only ones that can hit you while you're grounded are PO 8 (HO) B (big vertical mid where she teleports in the air and comes down on you), and PO B+K (her low, where she kicks your feet off from under you... grounds herself on block or whiff). PO 8 (HO) B is a reset and PO B+K is damage that forces her to relinquish pressure.

That's fighting games for you... Outmaneuver the opponent into your own tools to win. She has many other tools to use against you, but since 2A+B is your only problem, try my advice and see how well you handle her now.
 
DCLzexon said:
my only problem with natsu is that unblock bomb wen your slamed to the floor
if you dont uke, its a free continuation

you get up, knocked into the air
stay down, rolled to the side

i dont feel moves like that should be a free and safe set up from the floor

wait after a few natsu matches, it seems you cant even escape it if you uke, now its REALLY far to safe

also to add to this "is natsu OP debate"

if you think about this from a non "master of the soul calibur" standpoint, theres no good reason why some one who dosent know every nook and cranny of a character should lose HORRIBLY to them.
i know not alot of hardcore gamers like to hear this, but not everyone has the time or is willing to spend it mastering this game, and alot of people like me are really new to the game as well
a character shouldnt totaly destroy you just beacuse of any if those 3 factors

so what if shes bad against 2 other characters? theres still a whole roster of people she destroys, other characters have bad match ups too
and so what if shes easly beaten by people who have played this game since 1997 and remember the entire cast of ANYONE whos ever ben in the game AND there attack moves and names by heart because theres 2 problems with that logic

1. you assume natsu has no more to her, and even if true-
2. that just means she needs a nerf AND a buff, taking away the bad and giving a bit more to make up for it

if i were to put this into a overly long metaphore:
i can be 60 yards away from you with a satilite laser pointed at you, while you shoot a desert eagle at me, it does not make the satilte any less overkill, it simply means i need to switch out for my own pistol as well
Click to expand...

You give an example, which is Natsu gets 10/15 free damage after she KD, and conclude she is a satellite laser... that's just ridicules.
 
I don't get how so many people come around saying "I see x character 3 out of 5 times online" where x usually = Natsu. I played probably 20 matches last night and saw maybe 3 or 4 Natsus. It's like this every day.

I can only guess that some people have such a hard time against her that every time they see her they rage cuz they think it's an instant loss and thus over estimate the number they actually see.

The only thing I myself can say with any certainty about character usage is there is a disproportionately low number of Zwei's and Viola's online.
 
UnseenWombat said:
I can only guess that some people have such a hard time against her that every time they see her they rage cuz they think it's an instant loss and thus over estimate the number they actually see.
Click to expand...
Or maybe, just maybe, Natsu is the most over-represented character online for a reason.

I can't even remember the last time I saw a Tira, Hilde, Zwei, Viola... or hell, most of the cast in the game. It's all Natsu, Nightmare, Xiba, Leixia, in that order. SC5 is turning out to be one of the least diverse fighting games I've played. And this forum reminds me of all the MK9 guys swearing up and down that day 1 Kung Lao was balanced. lol. Good times.
 
sc5lol said:
Or maybe, just maybe, Natsu is the most over-represented character online for a reason.
Click to expand...
You completely missed the point of my post. She's not overrepresented. I see more Nightmares and Mitsurugis than I see Natsus.

I wish they had a chart on their website with the "most used online characters" like MK9 had. That would put this whole discussion to rest.
 
I don't remember anyone ever saying Kung lao was balanced. As proof of that, what did you see at the early tournaments? Kung Lao vs Kung Lao vs Kung Lao vs Kung Lao. Do you see that with Natsu in SC tournaments so far? Nope.jpg.

That's because everyone above scrub-tier (not the typical representative of the online crowd) has figured out how to deal with her gimmicks. And without them, she's about on the same level as the rest of the cast.
 
Doesn't really matter how many people use a character online. Only a few use her properly. Especially when it comes to online players. Majority of online players tend to throw things like spacing/whiff punishing out the window. They typically commit to a move without seeing if it is the proper tool for that situation. Or my favorite is that they will sit there and block so they can mash on AA due to them thinking that it will beat out all options.

Online players might not notice this at 1st due to them getting good results. But as soon as they play in the real they find themselves tossing out moves/not hit confirming and getting punished for it.

I try my best to stay away from rankings and just play against my teammates in a private online room so at least we still have a moderate frame rate as well as a gentleman’s agreement to play like we would if we were in person. But more effort is placed on us getting together in the real and playing.

The way I see it, it takes about 2 hours of playing offline to reverse the bad habits developed while playing 1 hour of online.

Once again,
To discuss if a character is overpowered or any aspect of the game strategy wise based on ONLINE play is just silly.
 
I don't get why natsu's damage output is so absurd. Now i'm inferring from the fact that she has a low power rating on her pentagon chart (2 out of 5) which is the same as for dampierre, raphael, pyrrha, ivy and yoshimitsu.
Some of you may brush this off as an arbitrary assessment, but I believe that this should approximate her design by the developers and which particular niche she fits in.
 
WuHT said:
I don't get why natsu's damage output is so absurd. Now i'm inferring from the fact that she has a low power rating on her pentagon chart (2 out of 5) which is the same as for dampierre, raphael, pyrrha, ivy and yoshimitsu.
Some of you may brush this off as an arbitrary assessment, but I believe that this should approximate her design by the developers and which particular niche she fits in.
Click to expand...

i wouldnt pay attention to any of those pentagram charts. she needs CH and at least 1 JF sometimes 2 in a combo to do high damage. exception being bombs, which you should block jump on reaction, and A+B which gives 77 damage on normal hit and you can do shit about it because the move is god.
 
WuHT said:
I don't get why natsu's damage output is so absurd. Now i'm inferring from the fact that she has a low power rating on her pentagon chart (2 out of 5) which is the same as for dampierre, raphael, pyrrha, ivy and yoshimitsu.
Some of you may brush this off as an arbitrary assessment, but I believe that this should approximate her design by the developers and which particular niche she fits in.
Click to expand...
Maybe they take into account the likeliness of actually scoring a hit? Who knows what factors went into the chart design-- maybe they used regular AA's and BB's as comparisons, or crunched out numbers based on average damage at different frame advantages, or averaged out the NCs, etc...
I'd say her in-game damage output is good because she has a real hard time actually hitting you. Her range is limited and somewhat predictable-- any character with a decent backstep (which, compared to Natsu herself, is basically everyone) can give her a real hard time automagically.
Plus she has really really weak block punishment and no real pressure or guard break moves to speak of. Her CE is fairly slow and leaves her vulnerable if you just throw it out and they step it, and it doesn't really expand her game like it does for some characters.
IMO, Leixia is the bigger speed-character threat.
 
When I first started playing SC5 she gave me major problems. Her bomb to teleoport is terrifying. At times, I halfway expected her to fall back down from the sky after a ring out and bomb for the win.

After a while, I started blocking the bombs on reaction---and she's not so scary anymore.

OP? Probably not. Top tier--absolutley. I've had a few people try to "explain" to me that Natsu is actually a crappy character-- I call BS on those shenanigans!
 
I wouldn't say she is top tier. Once you know her options and can space her, all of her options get shut down. She deserves the high damage, in time she'll have to work for her wins as much as a SCIV Sieg player. I'd say she is upper mid tier (B in the S-A-B-C-D-F Tier scale.)
 
I no longer believe in tiers, look at the character selection screen.
You have ease of use, damage, attack rate, speed.
Natsu is balanced as she is, if anything her PO should be safer.
The graphs next to each character on the selection screen are not kidding. Her amazing damage, speed and attack rate makes her hard to use. This also means she is hard to win with. Balanced.
If I wanted to place her in a tier it would be S though. She can win the match with practically two successful actions without meter.
 
I assume that quite often the choice of a character is because they either look good or simply that they are not too difficult to play. For many casual players, highly complex characters are simply just too much like hard work. Natsu looks good and is a fairly simple character to play. Suits me. I would have gone for our new "Italian Stallion" but you can't CAS him at all which is boring.
 
I played Taki in 4 and I play Natsu in 5. Did I pick taki b.c. of her boobs nope I pick her b.c. my wife like playing with her and so I learned her so I could teach my wife.
 
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