Top 3 characters by Keev, Akire, Daishi, Hyrul, and RTD from World Finals

Therenovator said:
rapheal, leixia and dampierre are bottom at the moment.
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I personally thought Raphael, Dampierre, and Hilde were the worst. Now by worst, that doesnt mean they're terrible irredeemable garbage, it's just that i think their weaknesses are very crippling and seriously hinder their ability to do well against most of the cast.
 
also winning a tournament proves nothing.
Zas sucked back in scIV, thanks to player skill but also lot of ignorance in the matchup, a french managed to win an EVO (or something like that) with zas.

Next tournaments people were prepared and he could do nothing .......
 
Imo raph and damp are the only low tier chars. There is no definite 3rd.

But its definitely not hilde, she is very solid.
 
MntT77 said:
Tira's definitely worse than Hilde, at least. Also, JS Tira is worse than Dampierre.
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I think by process of elimination that makes Raph, Damp, and Tira the bottom 3. There could be arguments for Aeon to replace one of them, but personally i dont think Aeon is that bad at all. I think he's pretty solid.
 
Aeon is so punishable/ evade and punishable though. I personally think Mitsurugi is tops. I know aPat has incredible tools but the reality his level of execution leaves substantial room for error. Other wise wouldn't Yoshi be top? He's got JFs that give him back like half his health that have the same window as aPat's 1B:B. Plus his main CH tools are 100% safe and one of them frame traps itself where as if aPat throws out a reckless Twister he loses a big chunk of health. Of course landing 1f JFs highly consistently is just not something that is typically viable. Even SF pros use P links and still drop combos all the time. Mitsu is so basic and does so so much damage. Why can he do 2 CEs in a row but Leixia was nerfed? She alrealy does peanuts for damage. Doesn't make sense to me. Cervy is understandable cause his CE does fairly modest damage and really his meter is well spent elsewhere but of course so is Mitsurugi's....
 
taffertier said:
I think by process of elimination that makes Raph, Damp, and Tira the bottom 3. There could be arguments for Aeon to replace one of them, but personally i dont think Aeon is that bad at all. I think he's pretty solid.
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Hmm... Tira's certainly low tier, but I wouldn't say she's quite bottom 3. Siegfried is worse IMO.
 
hmm I can't say for top 3...but I do have a bottom 3 tho..erm raphael,dampierre, and zwei.
 
Tira probably deserves to be in that bottom 3 now with being ruined by the patch. It's hard to say with her though. Gloomy is still good, but she has no guaranteed means to get into gloomy. She's essentially turned into a slot machine with no jackpot payoff now; it's hard to put a tier placement on a slot machine. Siegfried does not belong in the bottom 3 though, no sir. Raph, Damp and ZWEI/Tira/Aeon is probably close to accurate. Those're the 6 characters that certainly strike everyone as needing some help.

ZWEI's seen some tournament success though, as has Tira, even post-patch Tira. So again, it's debatable. Outside of Raph and Damp and probably Aeon it's really hard to put a bottom 3 out there though at this point. All of this tier placement discussion is nothing but theory at the moment.
 
darkfender said:
also winning a tournament proves nothing.
Zas sucked back in scIV, thanks to player skill but also lot of ignorance in the matchup, a french managed to win an EVO (or something like that) with zas.
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It was OmegaDR, and he finished top 8, but did not win.

Oboro said:
Of course landing 1f JFs highly consistently is just not something that is typically viable. Even SF pros use P links and still drop combos all the time.
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Links in 2D games are a fair comparison for something like 1B:B, though I wouldn't say (good) players drop them "all the time."

Anything that's a slide (iaGA, JF umbrella, iMCF) is pretty easy to input consistently. There's no real timing involved; you just do it fast. Also, a lot of JFs in this game seem to have at least a frame of slop.
 
P Linking makes the timing more akin to 1B:B pre patch. I think most of Yoshi's impact time sensitive JFs (all spinning ones) are 2f but the healing ones are 1F.
 
@darkfender Winning a tournament proves nothing? Oh, well that's funny, because that's how MU charts are compiled. As much rhetoric and theory spewing anyone can put out, it means jack squat, until someone with extensive knowledge with a character (yes, the best player for said character) plays against another representative for the other character. IE - not your buddy's mediocre Siegfried against some random player online.

Yes, unfamiliarity can dictate a match, but you know who's fault that is? The loser's. Because they didn't invest the time learning the match up.
 
When it comes to tiers, some people forget that stuff like learning curve and matchup inexperience doesn't matter - the tier list is based on the maximum known level of play for said character. So regarding how hard it is to get aPat's JFs down consistently, ultimately that doesn't matter at all as long as there's at least one person out there who can do it.

Going back to Tira, for the moment I'm going to go with her not being bottom 3, since Gloomy is still solid (if it was a character in its own right I'd say upper-mid), and although controlling her moods is hard now, there are still ways to get a decent chance of switching (JS CE always switches for instance, and taunt after the match is over is usually successful).
 
MntT77 said:
When it comes to tiers, some people forget that stuff like learning curve and matchup inexperience doesn't matter - the tier list is based on the maximum known level of play for said character. So regarding how hard it is to get aPat's JFs down consistently, ultimately that doesn't matter at all as long as there's at least one person out there who can do it.

Going back to Tira, for the moment I'm going to go with her not being bottom 3, since Gloomy is still solid (if it was a character in its own right I'd say upper-mid), and although controlling her moods is hard now, there are still ways to get a decent chance of switching (JS CE always switches for instance, and taunt after the match is over is usually successful).
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I think the mood randomness hurts her a lot, inconsistency is usually a bad thing no matter how good the pay off is. Before the patch she was great not just because of gloomy, but because of how fast and easily she could force the mood change with BEs. Now, i dont think anyone would be willing to stake their tournament life on random chance, if she falls in jolly too often, or gloomy just doesnt come out you could potentially lose entirely off of bad luck.

And I dont think siegfried is anywhere near bottom, just from what i have gone up against.
 
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