Top 3 characters by Keev, Akire, Daishi, Hyrul, and RTD from World Finals

damn-I-Suck said:
Slightly off topic:

Who do you guys think the bottom 3 characters are?

I'm thinking Dampierre, Aeon, Ezio.

At least raphael has good speed and good pokes on his side.
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There's no real bottom tier. The way each character functions and their strengths and weaknesses give them a lot of flexibility and a number options to do things. Flawed as some may be, every character has more than a handful of ways to compete and win.

Every character essentially falls into a top-end tier and then the mid and lower mid tiers. For the lower mid characters, most of them have issues when dealing with certain match-ups or certain moves. For example, Leixia doesn't have a real answer for dealing with 2A, among other issues with match ups. ZWEI can't punish that well and tends to be very linear, despite impressive damage and attack set ups. Dampierre has impressive damage in combos, a somewhat strong throw game, and he's a functional whiff punisher. But he's marred by two very unsafe stances and some heavy randomness during the execution of some moves. Siegfried can't punish that well and his damage outside of BEs is a little on the low end for someone of his weight/size class. These four are probably the most likely lower-mid candidates, in not so many words.

Hard to say if there's any real consensus about Tira, Raphael, or Aeon yet. Seems there's simply too much focus on very specific stances, and moves and the lack of any real depth into the character right now. In much the same way Cervantes was treated as low-tier bad in the early days of SC2 because of how slow he was - not enough focus on his ability to kill step with 3A or his incredible block stun. It wasn't until WCM and others really played with him that a more accurate picture of how strong Cervantes was in SC2 became apparent. Not many players are really focusing on certain aspects that can make characters better than they appear.


Here's a good example of why players might be missing the big picture with some characters: Cervantes' aB is terrible. It's i11 on the first hit and i14 on the second hit. It hits high and mid, the first hit barely has any range and the second hit can be stepped. On hit - counter or not - its -4 and -18 on block. Hitting with this move means you can't follow up with anything. If you do, you'll eat 236Bs all day long. Cervantes' other moves are terribly slow and punishable on hit or block. Or he can't pressure or follow up with anything if he's safe. His Dread Charge options telegraph too much and aside from one high attack option, they're all steppable.
 
Windstar said:
Siegfried can't punish that well and his damage outside of BEs is a little on the low end for someone of his weight/size class.
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We must be playing different games if you think Siegfrieds damage is low. Even without BEs.

ChaosK said:
Coincidence has it, that i posted some vids about a good chunk of his whiffing issues to belials glitch thread a few hours ago, which you can find here.
More to come in the following days.
Enjoy :D

Tl,dr: Yes.
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Ah. From the tournaments i've seen and the matches i've been in he doesnt seem to whiff that much, it looks like it only happens in specific situations.
 
aB is NOT terrible. It's damage is VERY sweet for i11, and it's vertical+horizontal in one move. The fast impact frames make up for the bad frames on block.
 
taffertier said:
Ah. From the tournaments i've seen and the matches i've been in he doesnt seem to whiff that much, it looks like it only happens in specific situations.
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Thats because tournament players will most likely have adapted to its whiffing, by either not using the specific move entirely or only using it in situations where the chance of a whiff is very low (Btw of course his whiffing is situational. A move that whiffs in every possible scenario, aka non-situational, doesn't exist).

Up to now there is really no arguing that sieg whiffs a fucking lot. Even though there is quite a big amount of whiffing for a lot of chars, no one comes even close to siegs whiffing.
Some players go even as far as to say, sieg is the most whiffing character of any fighting game ever. But i wont comment on that because i simply don't know.
 
Ceevy aB is indeed unsafe on block and negative on hit, but any cervantes player who kmows what they're doing would put that move in his top 5. It is ridiculously good compared to SCIV aB and that was annoying, lol.
 
Windstar said:
There's no real bottom tier. The way each character functions and their strengths and weaknesses give them a lot of flexibility and a number options to do things. Flawed as some may be, every character has more than a handful of ways to compete and win.
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There may not be an apparent bottom tier in this game, but there's always going to be characters that can perform in various MUs and have better strengths than others. That's just the nature of FGs. It's not to say that a low tier character cannot win, of course they can, though it may require additional work by the player; or it's not that bad of a MU for said low tier character. I don't know, from what I've assessed so far, SCV seems like it'll turn out to be somewhat counter-pick heavy like most modern FGs so we'll see how that pans out.
 
Here's a good example of why players might be missing the big picture with some characters: Cervantes' aB is terrible etc
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^ This is not even sarcasm. But I'm sure you knew that (< this is sarcasm).
 
One thing I find interesting is how many people seem to think Hilde is bad now. Yeah, on paper the frame data isn't too promising, but she's a very good whiff punisher and has pretty solid guard pressure too. I find it odd that at times she's even considered among the worst in the game.
 
ChaosK said:
Yes hilde is really good. That CE, man.
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Her CE is my favorite thing about her. Its got everything. Incredible range, incredible damage, incredible tracking, incredible start up. It's just amazing. I think if Hilde were more popular in the tournament scene her CE alone would draw the largest amount of salt.
 
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