Vader Match Ups.

Oofmatic, I'd like to hear an analysis on your 6/4 vs Raphael. I thought this was a pretty even matchup....o_o...I this more about actual mechanics with these 2 characters or is it just pro level players general opinion that Raphael's a shitty character.
 
Okay I guess he doesn't like me or something so...

Any Vader's have an opinion on Vader vs Raphael? I'd like to hear about it, pro's and con's.
 
It's sort of like this beloved. 1BA will pretty much shut down any prep, VE, or SEA options Raph has and since Raph is very linear, and vader has one of the best step in the game, raph is pretty much screwed. It's not to say that this lop-sided, but raph would generally have a pretty hard time in terms of trying to space vader out and kill stepping him and if you are successful in spacing, vader can just VFC his way back in, and no amount of VE or SEA shenanigens is going to do anything about it.
 
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I don't want to say I feel better about getting my ass beat by Vaders alot, but after that explanation I understand why....that sucks.

That was a quick, but wholesome summary of that matchup Meggido, thank you.

Fucking Raph...
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as for prep....Vader's 1b doesn't beat Raphael's Prep A does it? If not you can still 50/50 prep game that, and from any fear of Prep A you can get to SEA.
 
Technically, no, it doesn't, being that Prep A is i13 and 1B is i14, but does he have to try and beat out prep with 1B when he could just step left OR right being at how good his step is? And if Vader just tries to play a little safe and decides to block prep A, it's still a -16. Granted Vader can only punish this with 1B or K, it might as well be free throw attempt. If Raph also decides to get cheeky by going into SEA, that's a free 1BA there.
 
Vs Raphael, hmmmm...

well, it goes both back and forth to some degree but, with Vader's crazy step(as Megiddo had mentioned) action it can be quite difficult for him to get to Vader unless he is baiting him in..Raphael has some decent evade/offense abilities of his own but not as much as Vader does..in fact its an uphill battle for Raphael this way....so to even it out more, Raphael HAS to turtle up more so than any Raphael player would like to in this match up, and pick and choose the right spots for taking damage, and THEN use an evasive type attack, forgot the notation, but Raphael steps backwards then lunges in with an attack-throw move(i think it only does it on CH?) is a good example...also Raphael stances can get him into a heap of trouble if played out of its effective range(s)

So yea, learn to "cover up" sort of speaking a bit more than usual(be careful in this attempt or you WILL be flashing red very quickly!!)..so yea..turtle/ pick and choose(and most importantly, take all combo damage as possible, no short cuts, but this goes for most of the cast anyways).. give that a try..

Also BelovedChild, OOF might have not complied with you question as quick as you would have liked him to on the match up due to him having modding multiple soul arena character threads(so he's busy)..and don't take this personal.. but, this website has a TON of information but a lot of the time, nobody wants or is afraid to do the leg work.. what Megiddo, OOF, myself and others have provided should be sufficient in that regard..give it a go and see how it plays out for you(or any Raph player)..unless what Megiddo posted, sums it up for you.. but, if your still having any trouble with it feel free to ask, I'll do what i can to help provide some more match up info and most likely others will do the same.
 
BelovedChild said:
Oofmatic, I'd like to hear an analysis on your 6/4 vs Raphael. I thought this was a pretty even matchup....o_o...I this more about actual mechanics with these 2 characters or is it just pro level players general opinion that Raphael's a shitty character.
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Oh wow, I somehow completely missed this. >_<

But yeah Megiddo pretty much summed it up. Vader's step really kills Raph. I don't have much offline experience vs Raph, but from fighting Kura's Raph in casuals at Evo I realized that all I had to do was constantly step guard and Raph was pretty much unable to do anything about it, since with Vader's step I was even able to step some of Raph's anti-step moves (such WR A). I think it's a very tough matchup for Raph, possibly being 7-3, but I don't have enough offline experience against good raph players to determine that.
 
Nah I gotcha guys. Thanks for the further input Justkills, and I wont take it personally.

I appreciate all the information, it's kinda dissapointing to hear about, when Pendragonsfall mentioned that Raphael matchups are almost entirely geared around whether the opponents character has a good step or not, I thought that was just Raphael self-hatred because of how linear he is...I didn't think it really summed everything up just DOWN TO THAT....Raph just sucks.

Oofmatic, kinda curious, you sure you meant you "even stepped WR A?" That move covers almost the entire mid range spectrum, horizontal that hits 360(it hits BEHIND Raphael as well), and spaces back on block...you sure you stepped it and not got out of it's range/whiffed? It's a slow move(i21/i22) so it's entirely possible you just made them whiff.

Vader's 1B is just too good to deal with as well. TECHNICALLY, Raph can punish this on sight(Vader's 1B is -13 on block, Raphael's 6BB/K are i13) but the timing is JF basically, and I don't have the fastest reaction time. My other main, Voldo, also hates vader's 1B, since it beats out every option he has out of Mantis Crawl....

...Vader's just good man....
 
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