Vader Match Ups.

Jian said:
So realizing that all of Hilde's charges have a strong visual cue, I was wondering how well Vader stacks up against her? Specifically how useful/consistent his Force GI's work against her charge moves, and if 1B can bypass the auto GI properties of let's say her C3 A.
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i posted a vid today against hilde, tho i lost i did GI some of the charge moves, ive been playing hilde a bit more since then and I find the flash gives the charge away and ive become a lot better at getting the GI on reaction. i think if you can GI on reaction then they are awsome. i dont know the notation of her moves so i cant answer the other question
 
I was playing against Kilik and I found that Vader can shut down Kilik's Asura block mixup on the second and third hit of Asura.

Vader is able to punish using 1B on both B+K,6B and B+K,6B,41236B with the exact same timing. Doing 1B right as the third hit of Asura happens will make the 3rd hit whiff right over. It's not really anything that big damage-wise, but it's always handy to know that you can punish both versions with the exact same thing.
 
How does he fair against Sieg I do well sometimes but then their are times when i cant get all the attacks off and I get tossed in the air and torn to shreds. I know that a lot of siegs moves can be Force impacted pretty easily
 
Playing Meggido, GeneralScud, and a few other good Vaders, I'm having a hard time beating him with Raphael. The cancel's and the 1ba abuse just messes me up, I'm not used to having to TC THAT fast after an attack.

stepping helps alot though, since most of his strong mids are verticals.
 
I think that lizard man does fairly well against vader because the crawl stance is really hard to punish with vader. His lows aren't fast enough to hit him and lizzy can stay on vader. When I was playing freaky_styley i had a real hard time against his lizzy it just seemed that once he got into crawl vader was dead.
 
Well, first of all you shouldn't judge any matchup based on your online battles. Lizardman's Crawl stance will give anyone a hard time online.

I think Vader has it pretty good against Lizardman. His step is really good so it's not that hard to step the attacks, since everything from Lizard Crawl stance can be stepped, including the A. Just make sure to step to Vader's left (clockwise), and then you can hit him out of the stance with 1BA.

All of the attacks from Lizard Crawl, except for LC K and LC A+KB, are unsafe on block. Online, abusing LC A+KB is a lag tactic, but its nothing to really worry about if you play offline, since it's slow enough to block on reaction.

As far as punishing goes, 4A+B will hit him out of stance after blocking almost any crawl attack, and he won't be able to auto-GI it.

However, if you want actual damage instead, make sure to punish most of his stuff with kick/body attacks, because if you attempt to punish with a lightsaber strike, he'll be able to auto-GI it.

Here's what you can punish Lizard Crawl moves with:

LC A: punish with WR K.

LC B: 44K works great. 66B and 44B will also work, and they'll hit him before he can auto-GI. If you block LC B at max range though, 44B will whiff, and 66B can get auto-GI'd, so use 44K or 4A+B instead,.

LC B+K: Make sure you always punish with 1BA after you block this one. If he does LC A right after it will interrupt anything else including 4A+B.

LC K: After you block this, don't attempt to punish unless you think he will follow up with something other than LC A. LC K -> LC A is a frame trap against Vader, so any attack you try will get interrupted. If you block it your best bet is to just wait for the followup (such as LC A), and just punish that instead.
 
Juece said:
How does he fair against Sieg I do well sometimes but then their are times when i cant get all the attacks off and I get tossed in the air and torn to shreds. I know that a lot of siegs moves can be Force impacted pretty easily
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Juece, you can have a pretty easy time against him if your playing with the right tools(and certain smaller stages help too asides from getting easier RO's)

If you block Sieg's 88_22b(not at maximum pushout range) punish with 4b, if you are at maximum pushed out range from 88_22b(meaning you block it but at max range(4b punish will whiff, if thats the case then just use 4a+b..any time Sieg does 3(B)NBS~k..ALWAYS punish with 1b/1b~a, you will pretty much get the CH 1b~a evertime if they follow this up with any other NBS options(ONLY if its NOT ws(b)NBS~k)...

ws(B)NBS~k variations are more tricky to play against unlike 3(b)NBS~k(which is 100% safe on block so dont get caught doing /1b/1b~a here) since ws(B)NBS~k is uninteruptable you will get hit and Sieg gets a free CH combo.. just wait for 2nd K(high attack) from ws(B)NBS~k, from here duck and punish with pretty much any ws attack vader has(some moves will/wont hit depend on whether or not if your fast enough to execute them here) Also....



*NEW FIND* well, more of an honorable mention for this match up but can be used against other characters too.. against Sieg if the player is using a lot of things like 6a to range you out(long range high attacks) which is needed for him in MANY if not most match ups... a nice 'lil tid bit that i found out, in which Sieg's 6a is a high horizontal attack it can be ducked and punished on reaction with solid reflexes(which can get tricky and done with any character which can be VERY risky against him).. BUT..if this isnt your cup of tea..this is what I suggest you do..

Sieg does 6a(!OH NO's!) if you know this is one of their main "keep out" moves..have no feah! Vaders 88_22 A+K is HERE!! will trump that ish from really up close/mid ranges. It also has TC properties so use it well!

It allows you to step in either direction of which his move is coming from and then Presto!!.. auto evade!.. this is what this move is meant for to begin with..so you just simple use this against Sieg's long range keep out moves to score free damage and KD..which all sieg players need to use depending on the player/opponent's knowledge

*NOTE*..if you use this at mid/far range make sure to be patient..they could use 66b instead and throw you off from your timing(in which case you can do 88A+K 1p side/22A+K on 2p side..or a simple 1b /A+K~a punish too)..so keep score with your opponents patterns and moves they use at mid/far screen range with him..a good example would be..

..your opponent blocks Vader's A+K for example(high force move that is +0 frames on block) and your opponent believe's that you are going to use something he can trump you with 6a and 88_22A+K will trump it on any +frames and at an even 0 frames..if sieg does a block stun move ..sometimes depending on the follow up attack he does 88_22A+K will work sometimes..but not always.

A couple of things to keep in mind are:

1.keep an eye on your force meter, you want at least half of your meter before using this move at all

2. unless you know you get the win/RO and want to risk losing force for next round..dont use this out of its element.

Over all i think Vader has the upper hand in this match up. Keep Sieg outta throw range is important in this match up(even if you escape the throws i gets tricky for any character.. but anything he does from afar can be beaten/punished by Vader( unless if its a block lock stun like ws(B)NBS~k)which even then with a tab bit of anticipation you can trump ws(B) stuff with 1b/1b~a..even at Close/mid quarter battles..this is an up hill battle for Sieg vs Vader with all his TC moves/evades

EDIT: if you play a lot online instead of offline, these will frustrate the hell outta you!...so practice this where you will get the results you want in regards to the way you prefer playing(unless the connection is super good!), whether it be online/offline, IMO, practice this stuff offline for best results.
 
Thanks for the tips i appreciate it now I just need to apply them and see how I fair
 
We should get an official matchup comparison going. Here's my list, some matchups are up for debate, but I believe this is pretty accurate for the most part. Vader is a very balanced character.

Here's how this works. Assuming both Vader and the opponent are playing at the maximum possible skill level (theoretically)...

10/0 = No chance for the opponent to win.
9/1 = 1 in 10 chance for the opponent to win.
8/2 = Heavily in Vader's favor.
7/3 = More so in Vader's favor.
6/4 = Slightly in Vader's favor.
5/5 = Even matchup.
4/6 = Slightly in the opponent's favor.
3/7 = More so in the opponent's favor.
2/8 = Heavily in the opponent's favor.
1/9 = 1 in 10 chance for Vader to win.
0/10 = No chance for Vader to win.

Vader Vs.
Algol - 6/4
Amy - 3/7
Astaroth - 6/4
Cassandra - 5/5
Cervantes - 5/5
Hilde - 6/4
Ivy - 5/5
Kilik - 5/5
Lizardman - 5/5
Maxi - 6/4
Mitsurugi - 5/5
Nightmare - 6/4
Raphael - 6/4
Rock - 7/3
Seung Mina - 6/4
Setsuka - 5/5
Siegfried - 5/5
Sophitia - 5/5
Taki - 4/6
Talim - 6/4
The Apprentice - 4/6
Tira - 6/4
Voldo - 5/5
Xianghua - 5/5
Yoda - 7/3
Yoshimitsu - 5/5
Yun Seung - 6/4
Zasalamel - 4/6
 
Wouldn't vader have a better chance against asta? I mean most of vaders moves beat out any of astas moves up close and with the vfc you can usually throw out moves faster than asta can respond too.
 
Sorry for the off topic comment. No derail needed just a quick answer regarding Oof.

Oof can u please do a matchup chart for Algol thank u. I believe your qualified to do so.
 
i see how this all works now..come in and step on a good thing SU huh!?..lol nah j/k, i think he went to the Buffalo tourney?..not too sure.. you know, he has proly already got that algol chart in the works as i speak, he didn't tell me this..just taking an educated guess.

Juece.. i think its about right vs asta..though i must say that Vader can definitely punish much better vs Asta than Asta punishing Vader, but Asta does have some crazy BS damage in just a short few connected hits/CH, though Vader does have more range than him with A+B/1A+B UB and can deal out the same amount of damage from combos/techs done through more hits etc..so maybe the match up can go into Vader's favor a tad more because of that.
 
I was in a hurry when I made that list, so I just updated it. I believe it's very accurate now. I do think that the matchup is in Vader's favor against Astaroth. He has better RO tools when by the edge, a better long range game, and his frametraps work great on Asta.

S-U: To be honest I don't consider myself to be as knowledgeable with Algol. He's more like a secondary to me where as Vader's my main. But I'll contribute my thoughts on his matchups in his soul arena.
 
Oof, I'm interested in your view on fighting Yun Seung. I'd think Vader would have some trouble with the vertical auto evade in Crane stance, but you put the matchup at 8/2. Any specific reasons Vader would shut him down so badly?
 
Yun's Crane stance is pretty much completely useless against Vader. It can't evade 1BA, and if you hit him out of Crane stance with it, it will always be a counter hit.

Edit: After taking the time to play a really good Yun player offline, I feel like Yun isn't as bad as I originally thought. Yun Seong just needs to play without using Crane.

I think this matchup is 6/4 in Vader's favor now.
 
I admit to knowing little of this match-up since I don't know any good Vaders to practice against and haven't really tested anything against him myself, but why Vader 6/4 over Talim? Just curious.
 
I don't really have much experience with this matchup either, but Vader is able to deal with her Wind Sault and Wind Leap stances quite well. He can punish pretty much any Wind Sault attack for good damage, and as for Wind Leap, anytime Talim attempts it he can knock her out of it with 4A+B.
 
Vader vs. Hilde

This one is in Vader's favor because he can't be hit with that god-forsaken doom combo. Now this doesn't mean it's going to be easy. She can still hit you with C2BB and C3B at mid and long range and kill step with C2AA and C3A. Don't continually be in her face, but don't stay too far from her. And watch out for the C2B on block to C3A. Not sure if it's frame trap, but i could never do anything to counter except Force Parry. Doom combo may be out, but you can still be ROed if you're about mid range to the edge of the ring. Be extremely careful. Make sure you step a lot, but step wisely. You don't want to sent flying out the ring near the edge as you tried to step and 8WR her CB attacks only to ROed by a CA variation. -Megiddo-Flare
 
not only about the doom combo..but keep in mind that he can still get hit by the other versions that can still RO(as mentioned above)..other than that its all in his favor..C3A is stepped to Hilde's left(your right step) but you gotta be fairly close for this to happen.. also more than 50% of her charge attacks can be easily stepped to stepping left(her right)....

mainly keep a look out for a C2B charge(step left punishable)..and keep her in check with 1b/1b~a and FC 2A, which is good when anticipating any charge move when vader is even a small frame advantage lead..though.. zig-zag stepping left continuously WILL keep her in check with her charge moves that guarantee RO as well(other than C3A of course)..and will more or less force her to let out a improper charge move eventually to try and take momentum of the match and screw up her combos for RO/combo damage..

Further more, if your playing against her OFFLINE..you can guard her C3A on reaction from a zigzag step from either direction if your not comfortable or have timing to step punishing it to the right.
 
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