Viola : Current Issues, and what needs to be fixed.

Is Viola Overpowered? Be Honest...

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    133
Djangoknight said:
I think it would be better to make 6B+K get interrupted if viola blocks a move, like Zwei B+K BE attack if he blocks a move it gets cancel. so she keeps all her combos, and not get this skewed pressure. Ein has cooldown time, and Zwei B+K BE uses Meter, Viola can use 6B+K whenever.
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I can agree with that. Kinda weird that the orb still interrupts you when she blocks your attack after that move.
 
I disagree. If it didn't come out on block there would be absolutely no reason to respect the move at all making it useless. The only reason its a good move is because you have to account for its activity. If you can just tap her out of it even on block the move loses all its preasure and becomes combo filler only. Zwei is on the bottom in part because you don't really have to respect his set ups.
 
toastycheese said:
I disagree. If it didn't come out on block there would be absolutely no reason to respect the move at all making it useless. The only reason its a good move is because you have to account for its activity. If you can just tap her out of it even on block the move loses all its preasure and becomes combo filler only. Zwei is on the bottom in part because you don't really have to respect his set ups.
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no cause if you where to hit viola the orb would go away anyways.
if u "blocked" your have pressure to your side...
it not the 6B+K that need to be respected it what coming after it 3K, 3A, 2A, 2B,1K.
 
It is used on knock down but the developers also programmed gaps in her moves where it can be tossed in. BBB>6B+K, orb4A>set6B+K etc. While these may not be the safest places to throw it out consistently, yiu do have these options for a reason. Mix up. As is tossing 6B+K out in these spots puts you in an odd spot but if you make it stop on block then all of these mix up oppertunities cease to exist, and her mind-game play style is crippled. That's my opinion o that matter. It continues on block specificly because in most cases you are puting yourself in a vulnerable position by tossing it out. If you are going to risk it, you should get the small reward of forced stepping/blocking whatever instead of just getting BB'd out of it.
 
Im just gonna say one lil thing about this move...good for viola bad for the game. Yeah it would look really silly if zwei's B+K BE came out and hit an opponent after he GUARDS their attack....no it shouldn't continue and if it were to not come out after viola blocks then guess what? she is still fine..nothing drastic happens to her....and all these mix up opportunities cease to exist...ha thats real funny.....like I said before good for her just real silly for others. So you want me to block it and while im trying to retaliate, the orb hits me and I lose the initiative...Ha come up with a better argument.
 
JustinAkatsuki said:
Im just gonna say one lil thing about this move...good for viola bad for the game. Yeah it would look really silly if zwei's B+K BE came out and hit an opponent after he GUARDS their attack....no it shouldn't continue and if it were to not come out after viola blocks then guess what? she is still fine..nothing drastic happens to her....and all these mix up opportunities cease to exist...ha thats real funny.....like I said before good for her just real silly for others. So you want me to block it and while im trying to retaliate, the orb hits me and I lose the initiative...Ha come up with a better argument.
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To be fair, your argument is bad and always has been.

I don't have much time, but 6B+K isn't a huge problem move that everyone should be crying over. It hasn't ever been, and never will be. It's a useful part of her kit. It's incredibly good. But this alone isn't what makes her overpowered.
 
To expand on what Dest is saying, 6B+K requires her to sacrifice frame advantage (a good 20 frames worth) in order to get it paid back when the orb comes out. Essentially this means she can only safely do 6B+K at a large frame advantage (e.g. after blocking an unsafe attack from the opponent and opting not to punish it in exchange for a 6B+K setup) or after a knockdown.

As for 6B+K > G, you have to do a pretty poorly timed attack to get hit by the orb in a way that gives her a free launch off it, and sending out 6B+K makes her vulnerable to characters that are capable of auto GIing it (6B+K is a free CE for Nightmare on reaction).

6B+K overall is fine and she needs it. It's her damage output and the backthrow infinite that are the problems here. If the backthrow infinite were to be removed and her damage toned down to reasonable levels she'd be fine. I think Project Soul hit a pretty good sweetspot in 1.01. Most of the 1.02 buffs were okay but the buffs to 2B+K BE, 44A BE, and B+K BE were unwarranted and drove her damage into insane territory. People would be far more inclined to press buttons and hit her out of 6B+K's animation if the risk of getting launched wasn't 50%+ of your life.
 
Slade said:
As for 6B+K > G, you have to do a pretty poorly timed attack to get hit by the orb in a way that gives her a free launch off it, and sending out 6B+K makes her vulnerable to characters that are capable of auto GIing it (6B+K is a free CE for Nightmare on reaction).
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Although I agree with your post, Viola can always cancel 6B+K into 2B+K, 2B+K BE, B+K, or B+K BE to negate aGIs (B+K BE can get her out of NMs CE if it is used early or close enough, and 2B+K, 6B+K can be used to stall long enough to block). Not saying that this makes 6B+K OP, just saying that the mixup possibilities are endless. What makes 6B+K so "scary" is that lots of people don't have enough Viola knowledge to know how to counter it.
 
KineticClash said:
Although I agree with your post, Viola can always cancel 6B+K into 2B+K, 2B+K BE, B+K, or B+K BE to negate aGIs (B+K BE can get her out of NMs CE if it is used early or close enough, and 2B+K, 6B+K can be used to stall long enough to block). Not saying that this makes 6B+K OP, just saying that the mixup possibilities are endless. What makes 6B+K so "scary" is that lots of people don't have enough Viola knowledge to know how to counter it.
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Not if she does anything but guard after her 6B+K. If she does anything else, she won't have the frames to cancel. So again, if you guess right, an aGI or GI will hit the orb.
 
Honestly, 6B+K would be over powered if you were capable of combo off of it when it hits while Viola is blocking. Does it though? I'm not sure. If it doesn't, then we shouldn't be even discussing 6B+K. It's just a helpful attack to help Viola out of pressure like 2B+K or continuing combos.
 
OutCast said:
Honestly, 6B+K would be over powered if you were capable of combo off of it when it hits while Viola is blocking. Does it though? I'm not sure. If it doesn't, then we shouldn't be even discussing 6B+K. It's just a helpful attack to help Viola out of pressure like 2B+K or continuing combos.
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Under most cases (she sends it out, you make her block sometime, orb hits you) she can't get a launcher off it. Usually you have to whiff something or the blockstun prevents her from getting a launcher.
 
Slade said:
Under most cases (she sends it out, you make her block sometime, orb hits you) she can't get a launcher off it. Usually you have to whiff something or the blockstun prevents her from getting a launcher.
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It's worth mentioning that even in the case that she can, it takes some incredibly precise timing to actually get a launcher here. Pretty much have to make the 3B's impact frame fall somewhere in the hitstun frames of 6B+K. Not an easy feat.
 
My own uneducated opinion is that she'll be pretty much fine if the backgrab infinite is removed (while still keeping it the same in all other respects), :6::A+B: scales normally like all the other combo extensions, and :B+K: BE maybe does slightly less damage (like 35 rather than 50).
 
I mean, the video. Who was talking? Where were those people playing? Why are we drawing the conclusion that the infinite has been banned?
 
Frayhua said:
The infinite has been banned.

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