Viola Video Discussion

[bushindu]

Even so, JG doesn't necessarily mean you can abuse her strengths , it undoubtedly helps but for example I haven't met a viola who could beat my ivy, I can 6B a viola all day tbh, and there would be nothing they could do, where as other chars have that extra range which makes that alot harder.

I would most likely choose lexia, simply because I wouldnt have to worry about range etc, or violas glitch problems.

 

[Zanaken]

I'll be honest, I'm flabbergasted...We totally disagree on this.

Once I feel I have a firmer grasp of Viola's potential I'll get back to you. Till then, I'll work on the bitch on my spare time. You're from the UK, so I'd love to run some sets with you soon. I have about 6 matches vs actual people on my Viola, but seeing as Elysium is basically my main - I get to use her a good 1/7th of the time anyway.

If I trash your Ivy you have to post here "Viola has potential to be incredibly strong, and bypass ranging attempts!"

 

[bushindu]

Mate, I will absolutely post that if you abuse me
cant say I will def win at the moment having been playing SC for last month or so, but I've played Viola since release and I can honestly say outside of a certain range she loses what she has

 

[NatsuMist]

Hey Guys! Im back from a break of a long time! Iv'e Been playing DOA lately..
Sorry I feel like a noob :/ but would anyone mind giving me the control list like B+K = What on the Controller.. I know some combos but probably expired ones. Thanks!

 

[bushindu]

B+K = triangle + circle, or y+b

 

[NatsuMist]

B+K = triangle + circle, or y+b

Im Sorry That was what im looking for and what about Square and X?

 

[undefined.yuuki]

X and A is Guard and will usually always remain as Guard. You can look at the control configurations and it shows you. SCV gives you full customization with controls. For example, when playing Viola or Leixia, my L1 is B+K because I use it more than A+G. When I play Hilde, my L1 is A, and my R1 B, whilst A and B still being in their normal places at the same time.

This is because it gives me more control over the character.

 

[pootytang9]

Mate, I will absolutely post that if you abuse me
cant say I will def win at the moment having been playing SC for last month or so, but I've played Viola since release and I can honestly say outside of a certain range she loses what she has

to be fair, viola actually out ranges ivy.... by alot.... viola is the only SC5 character with FULL SCREEN shenanigans.

if im correct, ivy's 6(b) is unsafe too violas VO 6A+B. VO 6A+B actually can punish a lot of ivy's moves at max range

a lot of ivys options at max range, are actually unsafe to viola, viola can either punish them, or have enough time to safely get in if ivy whiffs or hits on block.

the true problem with the ivy vs viola match up is the patience between players. a viola player tends to be more aggressive, less patience, they want to get in there and start 3bing. most ivy players tend to be more patient.. they generally like to stay back and poke out in this match up.

TBH, when a viola player gets in close on an ivy player, ivy can easily and quickly force viola out before much damage can be done, but on the other hand if the viola player spaces ivy out.(though her spacing tools are far weaker than ivy, ivy will naturally want to space out anyways... so it will be easy) ivy at max range becomes fairly limited...

viola ( though not prefer ed) at full range, can actually still maintain pressure, though its weak in comparison to her normal up close shenanigans... that fact that she can force and opponent to block or move at full screen(safely out of anyone else's range) and still chip damage and guard damage the opponent is definitely something that should be applauded...

as i see it, violas natural range as a character is short range( one/two character length) or max range( up to when both characters cant move back anymore)

My source of Info?

well besides being a viola player that has played against a few ivy's...

im not sure if you guys have played saneone or n3ver3nding, but i would say these 2 are probably the best ivy's i have ever seen.... and though i lose to them, simply because they are just better players in general. my viola can still take their ivy on round for round.

 

[bushindu]

snip

While I appreciate what you're saying, I disagree
Viola's shenanigans are only effective when partnered with her claw, excl her CE. I have played both of them, yes they are good, but I without coming across rude, they weren't amazing, whether that was just a bad day, or how they generally play; plus their Viola MU knowledge didnt come across. Also, they often attk at disadvantage, where simple BBs interrupted, n3nver 3ending moreso.


Viola can do chip dmg at fullscreen range, however a decent Ivy wouldn't let viola get that far out, by using Ivy's whip moves, she removes the method of attack - backstep, because no one can move the distance her whip cover after using a move other than her orb; which would be punished or interrupted.

Against other chars, Viola can maintain the pressure at 2 char length, but VS Ivy it is harder to safely do that. Simply because of 6A, 3A 1A (TC) 66A.

6A+B doesnt punish that much, its i15 Orb, i18 Set
-Orb can usually punish with 6B8,
-Set is too slow to punish anything other than a whiff

While i'd say generally Ivy has the upper hand on most maps, but on Voldos, maybe some others Viola is a bitch, due to lack of space.

 

[pootytang9]

Viola can do chip dmg at fullscreen range, however a decent Ivy wouldn't let viola get that far out, by using Ivy's whip moves, she removes the method of attack - backstep, because no one can move the distance her whip cover after using a move other than her orb; which would be punished or interrupted.
.

ur not supposed to space at disadvantage.... simply put doesnt matter how much space or speed ivy's attacks are or how good the ivy player is, she won't be able to stop a viola spacing out on advantage. also giving the meta at full range, ivy's farthest reaching move is 8b+k which is punishable on block by violas VS 2A+B.

ivy at max range is forced into disadvantage, most ivy players after a few attempts at punishing violas full screen shenanigans will attempt to close the gap.

also keep in mind, as the viola player, those close range 6b+k shenanigans become trash, obsolete. im not saying that a viola with the normal play style can take on an ivy evenly. but tbh if the match up is played differently by the viola player the match up is in either characters favor, maybe a slight advantage towards ivy.

i would say, that Siegfried,astaroth , nightmare and ivy are violas toughest match ups. a viola player with the basic rush in/beat down style of play can easily get over turned by good spacing....

what im saying is for these match ups specifically, throw away the normal viola play style, fight good spacing with better spacing.....

viola can't do anything safely at 5 character spaces..... but siegfried, astaroth, nightmare and ivy can....

siegfried, astaroth, nightmare and ivy cant do anything at 10 character spaces.... but viola can....

see the meta? just because u cant 3b and do combos at 10 character spaces doesnt mean viola does not have excellent tools at full screen.(in fact shes the only character with full screen tools, besides ezio arrow...)

besides ezio, viola is the only other character that can punish full screen.... wether it be a whiff or on block(nothing really achieves that far of a distance anyways)

btw, viola can punish ezio's 6b+k with her VS 2a+b

also its not like viola only has one option at fullscreen... she got a nice set of tools b+k,2b+k, 6b+k, 6bb, 2a+b, 2b+kBE, and VO 6a+b(though this move only covers half screen, its still an i15 move.. a i15 move that covers half screen... most ppl if they are running at you wont be able to react and block that in time "chip")

 

[bushindu]

Uhm... I didnt say anything about spacing at disadvantage. Apologies but I don't think you have a grasp on Ivy, Ivy players don't use 9B+K unless its certain to hit, or part of a tech trap.

Viola doesn't have excellent tools at full range, simple because a move will hit, doesnt mean it's excellent. W/O 6A+B is ok, but once you've used it and in SET, you have absolutely nothing, Viola's range becomes 0, which puts viola in a vulnerable state. Also, good players dont just run in, unless they are already close enough to create pressure. So the chance that you can use 6A+B to stop a player who is 66G66G ing are unlikely.

2B+K - easily seeable, you can jump, sidestep
b+k thats a high you can duck on reaction
2B+K once on screen just step forward or sidestep
6BB ?isnt a move
2B+K BE, yes I have combos for viola with 2B+K BE, but is extremely in-efficient

I have used Viola since release, and Ivy pretty much the same, so I know I have a very good grasp of both of their potential, and I can say outside of in your face range, Ivy does control the game

 

[pootytang9]

i meant 6aa lol


iv played viola from day one, iv attempted to use every move she has to the max potential that i can achieve... there still a lot about violas moves that i dont understand but i definitely have a better idea then most ppl.

my experience from ivy comes from players that i highly regard as extremely good players... and i'ved played against a lot of ppl, so whatever i see these specific ppl do, is what i consider a high tier ivy player to do.

from my expectations, just because a move has flaws, does not mean its not an excellent tool. a move does not need to "hit" to create pressure. the sole fact that i can force an opponent to move at any distance shows the power what im trying to explain....(wether it be a "duck, "jump", "side step", or "guard")

like i said before, these matches of spacing comes from patience, if a viola player has the health lead and is attempting to space ivy out. ivy is going to try and carefully close the gap....

basic mind game...

Viola: "Full range; health lead" b+k 6b+k 44 22
Ivy: "Full range; without health lead" 22/88 66g
ivy"Mid range" expects the 6b+k, runs in
Viola"Mid range" does not do 6b+k, b+k creates VO, VO 6a+b.
Ivy" Mid range" Ivy either blocks it or gets hit, MOMENTUM was stopped. which is what matters the most.

moves have properties beyond the "normal" frame data that we expect. psychological properties, things that make ppl want to act differently then they should.

6b+k usually, when read makes ppl want to run in on viola, they expect that viola is too preoccupied with calling the move she cant act(generally true). this creates an opening for the player to safely cover distance in the mid of the pressure.

from personal experience going "in your face" on an ivy is a nono, ivy controls the close range against a viola much better then viola can in this match up.

ivy has superior movement, good Push Back, and lots of decent TC TS moves that help avoid a lot of pressure.
from my personal experience, a good ivy player will always attempt to force the viola player to run at her, create enough space to force violas momentum to stop. an average distant where 90% of violas moves can't reach ivy.

viola can't "in your face" on ivy for more then a 3 hits.... if every move has been guarded then the viola player should be by know forced to step in order to regain the lost distance the ivy player has created. stepping in creates a disadvantage giving the ivy player larger chances to attack. as i see it? why do what the ivy player wants? by stepping in we as viola players are losing our advantage on guard, so rather then step in and lose that advantage, id rather just take advantage of the situation and space out, space out far enough that the ivy player now has no options but to move in.....moving in is a disadvantage therefore switching the scenes for the match up.....

this "meta" is what i expect a good ivy player to do. a "good" ivy player will force the opponent to a distance that requires them to step in on ivy. ivy takes that disadvantage of "movement" and attacks again. Ivy is a stopping character, she has great stopping power, shes good at abusing the opponents movement to create disadvantages.

viola on the other hand is a "meaty" character. she looks for basic openings and sets the opponent up on awkward 50/50 in attempts to either "chip" damage or 3b for high damage. viola revolves around her launchers(the meat). in general her moves are weak. as a viola player ur looking to force ur opponent to whiff or make a wrong guess in a 50/50 i order to land a "meaty" hit.

 

[bushindu]

6AA is an amazing move, on hit neutral, allows for WR B which on CH opens up for a combo for 75+
but short range,

What you said is fair, but Ivy has one of the best steps in the game, her 6B poke is one of the best as is 3K not to mention the fear iCS, Ivy can easily play in your face as well as at range. Mind games are only as good as those applying them, so for example Me VS Hyrul there have been times where his mind games have worked against me, but failed against others, whom mine worked against. My point is mind games are extremely personal.

Viola's 2A+B doesnt track, so if I just move in with a side wavedash style, her orb doesnt work at all.

I dont intend to step on toes, but versing ivy online, is completely different to online,
online I can take the piss with spamming shit, and 214B on disadvantage and get away with it. Whereas if I play properly online, it doesnt really work all the well whereas offline, it's great. Which is why it is very hard and almost hollow to class an ivy player good or bad based on online experience alone.

 

[LP]

Viola can bait Ivy into stuff pretty easily. Haven't read all of this but will later on. Viola's bananas, is all. She turns bad matchups around easily with good reads and forces just about every character in the game to play around her bullshit (which means they have to do certain stuff or lose).

 

[bushindu]

If an ivy just JGs strings, pokes viola out with 6b and plays the dryest match ever, viola is gonna be able to do much aside CE, and bullshit orb chips

 

[LP]

Yeah...you should come to the states and test that out. We can play theory fighting all day but I'm not sure that you even realize that if Viola steps a single 6b, she can, should, and likely will 3b Ivy (which would more than make up for poke damage if Viola has meter, plus give her oki). Ivy's most damaging options are throws and CH things and her pokes are more of nuisance than Viola's "guess right or keep blocking" type of pokes (you can simply backstep and force Ivy to have to chase you or fully commit to a poke heavy game). Not to mention Viola's orb damage adds up do to the mere fact that she can cause damage where most characters can't.

To put it like RTD put it, no matter where she is on the screen, Viola forces you to do something. I'm not saying Ivy's bad but I am saying that I haven't really seen an Ivy player who has down her throw game, poke game, and CH game enough to the point that any player should feel pressured by her.

 

[bushindu]

Uh...no thanks, not sure you realise, you don't necessarily have to rely on Ivy's most damaging options to win; you can quite comfortably win without the need for CHs or iCS.
Although her push-back isn't amazing, it does push enough to hinder Viola. Yeah if Ivy whiffs 6B of course she's gonna eat a 3B, but that's the same for every character.
Anyhow, this discussion has gone on for long enough, not starting it up with you as well, agree to disagree

 

[Zanaken]

I love to disagree, so I am glad you agree to it.

Just keep this in mind - If I am driving down a road and EVERY car is going the wrong way, I wont assume they are all lunatics, because it would be far more likely for just me to be wrong; than all of the others drivers combined. Get me?

 

[Party Wolf]

I love to disagree, so I am glad you agree to it.

Just keep this in mind - If I am driving down a road and EVERY car is going the wrong way, I wont assume they are all lunatics, because it would be far more likely for just me to be wrong; than all of the others drivers combined. Get me?

Reported. Cars are off topic.

 

[Jimbonator]

I love to disagree, so I am glad you agree to it.

Just keep this in mind - If I am driving down a road and EVERY car is going the wrong way, I wont assume they are all lunatics, because it would be far more likely for just me to be wrong; than all of the others drivers combined. Get me?

I feel like this contradicts your entire post history on 8WR.