What do you think about Stuns overall?

If Rock stuns you, he can't follow up with a long 40%HP combo... He can start a string, though, and hope that you guess wrong.

And to not be thrown infinitely from the ground, all you have to do is either try to break with A, or try to break with B... If it doesn't work, it will work on the next attempt. If it does not work, then it doesn't matter because he ended the string himself.
It's not a lot of work... Rock has no reason to throw you more than 3 times in a row. (3 times is 30 damage total.)


...And yes, Setsuka does have stuns, and some of them are useful... But to use those stuns correctly, you have to perform a combo that is ridiculously difficult to perform. At that point, it's easier to shake that stun than to perform the combo.

But this one example wasn't really about stuns... it was in general. Setsuka is much more difficult to play than Mitsurugi, in general.
Mitsurugi on the other hand doesn't really have to worry about any difficult inputs to do his things.
Edit: I wrote this example because... simply put, Setsuka has to work harder, no matter what. So if Mitsurugi wins, ... is he REALLY a better player? Maybe, but not necessarily.



As for the behind the scenes thing...
I did not say that the one who abuses stuns is a worse player.
What I said is that if he wins by abusing stuns, then he's not necessarily the better player.

Maybe he is, ...or maybe he won because he had an advantage.
 
i wasn't saying you said anything either way.. I was asking what you MEANT by it.. but what ur saying unfortunately sounds (although it might not be what your meaning it to sound like..jsut saying this is how it sounds to me) like you are saying that using someone like setsuka who is generally a harder character to use than say kilik or mitsu means that if and when you lose you can just play the "my character is low tier and yours is high" card to say they are not better than you. I mean I guess it depends on one's definition of a better player..whether tha means which one wins more or which is flashier or what not. The only way someone really has an advantage is if they wait to see who you pick and then they PURPOSELY counter-pick. Otherwise you both had the same characters to choose from and from their on out its just a matter of who is better with thier character. And (for example cervy string) only does about 60+ damage..with the first hit doing a large portion of that...which means the "30 damage" or rocks ground throws ends up being about the same as his stun combo if you add the damage of the knockdown hit. Plus while the grapples are 50/50..a shakeable stun is 100% of the time shakeable. Now if your problem is with stuns at all then that is one thing..just an opinion thing really. It just seems that you want to see someone not be skilled at the GAME but rather skilled at jf's. And yes..setsuka or a yoshi or some other jf heavy combo-er is harder to get stuff with than say mitsu...but without an "easy and strong" character lots of casual gamers wouldn't play. And really... pressing 46464 is not much different than pressing 2A+B and then finishing a cervy A+B combo. So it seems more like (as I said earlier) that you are talking more about being annoyed that there are "easy to use by scrub" type characters than you really are as annoyed by the stuns themselves. Which makes sense coming from a setsuka who is highly technical and flashy character in the right hands and just a piece of crap in the wrong hands. Unlike someone like mitsu who can be universally used by good and bad players alike.
 
Eh, you understood correctly, and it's true that I could use the "I lost because my character's harder to play" card...
I never say that, though... But from time to time I believe it, and keep it to myself.
Sometimes it's obvious that your opponent sucks... Like when they interrupt a slow string, not because they're good or guessed right, but because they don't realize that you could have chosen a quicker attack instead. (For example, Rock's 6A+B and 6[A+B]...

There are other players who have a strong setup, they're hard to stop. But when you manage to break their groove, they're worthless. They're unable to learn anything on the fly, they can only repeat what they've practiced in advance or copied from others. They fall in the same traps, and they repeat their stuff, become predictable. No room for thinking.

...And good point about Cervantes and Rock, I guess...


I do want to see people skilled at the game. Being able to perform Setsuka's JFs is useful, but it doesn't win the match. You have to make good choices and play the game like anyone else. My only annoyance is that additionally to playing the game normally, you also have to work with difficult inputs.
Where someone like Mitsurugi only has to worry about playing the game.


And you're probably right, I'm mostly annoyed by characters that are easy to play with decent success.
But I get the impression that characters with easy-to-use stuns mostly fit that description.
 
Most stuns happen on Ch, so if a player lost to a bunch of stuns, maybe he should pay more attention to what he is throwing out, stop attacking out of disadvantage, or Stepping wrong. If a player is able to get alot of stuns off of reading his opponent right, and reacting faster to get the stuns in the first place, then he is the better player.
 
... what?

You choose your character, you choose to have a harder time of it.

Characters who are "easy to use" aren't actually THAT easy to use.
Mitsu's 50/50- he's got holes if you guess right. It's a tradeoff for that so-called "easy execution". And what about Mitsu's JFs, anyway? Those are just chopped liver?

Trust me. I looked for an easy button.
I didn't find one.
Everybody's got something wrong with 'em.

Anyway.

Stuns are great. When people don't shake 'em you yuke their ass and when people do you get a free mixup. Awesome.
 
DrakeAldan said:
You choose your character, you choose to have a harder time of it.
Click to expand...
So what?
It doesn't make it any less of a fact that some characters are easier or harder to use. Some "strategies" are easier to use/execute than others. Some of those strategies are much harder to avoid than others.

We should do a match.
I'll pick Algol, you pick Talim, and I'll bubble spam. We'll see which one of us is a better player. Deal?
Not really, but I hope you get my point. I feel that stuns are a similar issue (especially online), but less extreme.


Characters who are "easy to use" aren't actually THAT easy to use.
Click to expand...
But they still remain THAT much easier to use.
 
Plume said:
So what?
It doesn't make it any less of a fact that some characters are easier or harder to use. Some "strategies" are easier to use/execute than others. Some of those strategies are much harder to avoid than others.

We should do a match.
I'll pick Algol, you pick Talim, and I'll bubble spam. We'll see which one of us is a better player. Deal?
Not really, but I hope you get my point. I feel that stuns are a similar issue (especially online), but less extreme.



But they still remain THAT much easier to use.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, only in the truth that the entire cast doesnt have the same risk/reward system. For example, you have to play safe with Sieg since he is bad on block. If you play too safe though then you give up damage. You can't just run in and swing with sieg like you can with others.
 
Characters like Mitsurugi and Amy are easy to use, but they have a lower ceiling than characters like Setsuka or Yoshi. Yes, there are exceptions to this (Lol@Voldo and his safe launchers), but simplistic tricks have simplistic answers, ya know? Unless Mitsurugi is played very intelligently, he'll fail hard against proper spacing and yomi.
 
Love em.. And love people who can't shake them. Alot of Oooohh's and woooow's in the room when everyone is mic'ed up. And don't be close to a wall... Cause I WILL make my Asty STUNT! 9 hit damage reset!
 
Plume said:
So what?
It doesn't make it any less of a fact that some characters are easier or harder to use. Some "strategies" are easier to use/execute than others. Some of those strategies are much harder to avoid than others.
Click to expand...

So what? Then these are the strategies you want to be, and usually should be, using. It's a fact of gaming (specifically, fighting games) that not everything has a place when other moves are just better. There is no point in whining about how the inferior strategies are bad. Just forget about them.
 
I love interrupting people with 'em, especially with Mitsu. Is it 3A? The one where he smashes the hilt of his sword into them, good for getting some breathing space. I just hate when uber strong characters have them, then they combo your ass. They help Amy immensely <333
 
this thread reeks of scrub.

Stuns, unfair?
RO, unfair?

thats fucking comedy, but lets keep this train rolling.

Range is unfair. people with long range can just throw out attacks at range anaginst those with shorter.

Throws are unfair. quick unblockables that have only a short window for you to MAYBE escape them(if you GUESS right, what is this, guess calibur 4?!)

unblockables are unfair. FIRE! you cant BLOCK IT!

frames are unfair! you mean after i block something, they can attack and BEAT ME!? unfair!


seriously. anytime i don't win its unfair for one reason or another, and anytime i do win its because i worked harder and was the better player.
 
I dont think it's fair that people can choose to main low tier/difficult to use characters, then use that as an excuse everytime they lose to another player who is just trying to play their game, how they want, which they paid for. If people can tell me to use a low tier or less advantaged character in order to even out the odds, i should just as well be able to tell them to pick high tier characters.
 
I wish people weren't so quick to throw the "s"-word out when someone has a complaint.


Plume, I agree that it sucks when you use a character that you have to work 30 times harder to win with, but that's the price you pay for being innovative/stubborn. Whether you use that character to show off or prove how much better you are, or just because that character is your favorite, it's just a trade off. The whole reason I use Yoshi and Setsuka as my secondary and tertiary characters is for that reason. Kilik and Hilde are my favorite characters, but they're much easier to be dangerous with than Yoshi or Setsuka, so I chose to pick up the latter so that I could improve my ability to play the former. In a nutshell, Hilde and Kilik are my "beast" characters, and Yoshi and Setsuka are my "pride" characters.

As I've said before, whenever I see myself facing against a Mitsurugi or Voldo, I realize I'm gonna be in for a hell of a fight. As a turtler, I tend to buckle under mixup. But, that's just the way it is. It's not "unfair", it's just an acceptable cost, IMO.
 
I think Rekano said it best, not sure word for word, but ..

Earning a win with a low tier char. like Maxi is REWARDING!

In a first to ten session, maxi vs kilik.. odds are, all things being equal, the kilik will prevail.

But the 3-4 matches that the Maxi user might win will garner more kudos to the crowd than the 6-7 the Kilik will win.

I think that's why some of us use low tier chars. Not to give us an excuse to lose, but to prove that tactics and skills can win over tiers... sometimes ;)
 
Think of how different the game would be if there were no stuns at all in the game. Guaranteed damage mostly would be a thing of the past, and most people would use launchers and throws instead of actually trying to hit you normally. That doesn't sound fun.
 
Plume said:
I hate stuns, because I'm not the kind of person who looks at the result. Instead, I look at the path that was used.

If someone wins because he used 5 shakable stuns in a match, he's not necessarily a better player, because his opponent had to work much harder than him.

It disgusts me.
Click to expand...

Wait What???????????
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom