What kills competitive fighting game communities?

LunarAura

LunarAura

[09] Warrior
These are the patterns I've seen across many fighting games. I think it's the obvious lack of a solid guideline in what constitutes making the rules. There's no universally accepted guideline to ban a stage, character, controller bind, whatever. We only do so based on our biased view of how the game is "intended" to play at the same point where we, in as much bias, deem certain things "broken" in the game.

It could also be because somewhere in the game's lifespan the real diehard gamers dissect the game to a point where anything easily exploitable is found. Then, more and more people would use it in tourneys. At this point, how well would we know that there isn't a counter to the exploit before we take rash actions?

I know most of you are really hardcore and I'm not even a blip on the radar. But if you guys don't get your shit together, the competitive scene is gonna die a fiery death.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

You definitely sound like you'd be a Purist. The thing is, there's always going to be a division between Purists, who prefer to take the game exactly as it's packaged, and Craftsmen, who see the game's elements as tools to shape what the competitive scene should be. Even with everything identical, there's always going to be debate over what should be legal and what shouldn't. What drives a community apart is when tournament organizers completely disregard arguments on either side. Competitive gaming has officially intersected with politics.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

I'm not sure how many other competitive communities you've been a part of so far man, but what's going on here is completely unique to Soul Calibur. No other community has gone through this kind of debate on whether or not to ban a character. But this community has always been kind of weak anyway, even in SC2. So it's not surprising.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

For characters, yes, the debate here is the largest I know, but there's certainly been some debate in Smash Bros. Particularly with the stages, Smash Bros. is the most banhappy of them all.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Honestly this community is the reason that I don't play this game competitively. I love the Soul series and always will, but there are a bunch of retards here.

I don't like Star Wars at all, but Yoda is the only one that I can see banning. And the only reason that I say that is because he auto evades highs, throws, AT and a lot of combos by simply doing nothing. But he's not overpowered, so not banworthy.

Then you get the elitists in here who don't listen to reason. They feel because they've won a couple hundred dollars in some tournaments that they are God's gift to the world, when in reality they are just good at a video game.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

the community is what kills the community, not the game

even then, I'd say it is more like hurting the community than killing it. there are always some who stay even in hard times
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Uncompetitive games kill competitive game communities. Oh, and uncompetitive people...
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Hustle_Man_77 said:
Then you get the elitists in here who don't listen to reason. They feel because they've won a couple hundred dollars in some tournaments that they are God's gift to the world, when in reality they are just good at a video game.
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Amen brother! The only thing worse than those elitists with their holier-than-thou attitude are the kids who know more than any laymen player out there and spout off about how this character is broken or it takes no skill to play with this character or... whatnot. It is the most annoying thing in the world! It affects other people looking for an excuse on why they're getting their ass whupped. Maybe you haven't put in enough time jabroni!!! As anyone here that I've had contact with can attest, I am all for learning and I love it when I find someone who can dominate me. These are the people that I learn from. But it is infuriating when you here that arrogant tone about frame rate this or game glitch that. I have nothing but love for this series, I actually play no other game. I would love to be one of those elitists, but if I ever come off sounding like any of the afformentioned people either before I get that good at the game or if I do become one of the higher tier players...please torture and kill me with my blessing.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Hustle_Man_77 said:
Honestly this community is the reason that I don't play this game competitively. I love the Soul series and always will, but there are a bunch of retards here.

I don't like Star Wars at all, but Yoda is the only one that I can see banning. And the only reason that I say that is because he auto evades highs, throws, AT and a lot of combos by simply doing nothing. But he's not overpowered, so not banworthy.
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Excellent strawmanning there, Hustle. You should realize that people have as much right to bitch about whatever they want as you do to bitch about all these imaginary bans being thrown around.
Then you get the elitists in here who don't listen to reason. They feel because they've won a couple hundred dollars in some tournaments that they are God's gift to the world, when in reality they are just good at a video game.
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Ad hominem! Nice. How could these people possibly know what they're talking about, all they've done to qualify their opinions is win tournaments in the very game they're commenting on! Pffft. What could they possibly know about how the game is played or how balanced it is?

Talks of specific bans should be cooled off, but there's no reason at all that people shouldn't discuss game balance or whatever else they want to.

I don't like Amy. I would prefer to never have to play another Amy. If you ask me about Amy, I will tell you she should be nerfed, I might even come up with a few way to do that. There are a lot of Amy players where I am. I deal with it. I go to tourneys run by Dino, who catches a lot of shit around here. But he's a nice guy and he goes out of his way to accommodate us. I don't care if he wants to ban Algor or Yoda or rap music. I deal with it, because I want to play some SC4. When Regionals came around he followed the Regional rules, but outside of that, he's footing the bill and he can do whatever he wants. Besides that, Dino represents only himself, and not the Toronto community or the SC community, or anyone else (as far as I know).

Please, get over yourself. This whining is every bit as bad as the whining you whine against.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

LunarAura said:
These are the patterns I've seen across many fighting games. I think it's the obvious lack of a solid guideline in what constitutes making the rules. There's no universally accepted guideline to ban a stage, character, controller bind, whatever. We only do so based on our biased view of how the game is "intended" to play at the same point where we, in as much bias, deem certain things "broken" in the game.

It could also be because somewhere in the game's lifespan the real diehard gamers dissect the game to a point where anything easily exploitable is found. Then, more and more people would use it in tourneys. At this point, how well would we know that there isn't a counter to the exploit before we take rash actions?

I know most of you are really hardcore and I'm not even a blip on the radar. But if you guys don't get your shit together, the competitive scene is gonna die a fiery death.
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In every competitive scene there will always be tempers and arguments. But that's because it goes along with passion.

The one and only thing that kills a competitive community is a bad game (with the exception of VF, which has a very tiny almost dead community but it's still there). The criteria for determining a bad game can lead to very subjective arguments, but in the end it's pretty much a community consensus/exodus. It happened with Tekken 4 and it happened with SCIII.

Now, just because it's a bad game doesn't mean the scene will dissipate. DoA, for being the garbage that it is, still maintained a decent scene for a while.


As long as people want to gather and play, a competitive scene will thrive.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

page said:
Excellent strawmanning there, Hustle. You should realize that people have as much right to bitch about whatever they want as you do to bitch about all these imaginary bans being thrown around.


Ad hominem! Nice. How could these people possibly know what they're talking about, all they've done to qualify their opinions is win tournaments in the very game they're commenting on! Pffft. What could they possibly know about how the game is played or how balanced it is?

Talks of specific bans should be cooled off, but there's no reason at all that people shouldn't discuss game balance or whatever else they want to.

I don't like Amy. I would prefer to never have to play another Amy. If you ask me about Amy, I will tell you she should be nerfed, I might even come up with a few way to do that. There are a lot of Amy players where I am. I deal with it. I go to tourneys run by Dino, who catches a lot of shit around here. But he's a nice guy and he goes out of his way to accommodate us. I don't care if he wants to ban Algor or Yoda or rap music. I deal with it, because I want to play some SC4. When Regionals came around he followed the Regional rules, but outside of that, he's footing the bill and he can do whatever he wants. Besides that, Dino represents only himself, and not the Toronto community or the SC community, or anyone else (as far as I know).

Please, get over yourself. This whining is every bit as bad as the whining you whine against.
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So that means that I'm entitled to my opinion, correct?

I never said that they can't express their opinion. Vader, Yoda, Algol, Bonus Characters and Apprentice (not sure about his ban) were not subject to imaginary bans unless I'm one of the slow ones here.

Also, I never said that the "elitists" don't know anything about the game, hence me already saying that they are good at the game.

I don't even complain about Dino's tourneys, because the prize money wouldn't be worth the cost of the trip. I don't agree with his bans, but it's his decision. And it's my decision not to go. Simple, right?

So I'm whining because I don't agree with a lot of the bullshit that goes on in this community? No, I'm just stating my opinion. If you agree with it, I don't care. If you don't agree with it, I still don't care. I don't know 99% of the people here in person nor will I, so why would I care?

I'm just here because I like this game, and I get good strats, so chill the fuck out.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

You can have whatever opinion you want, but your attitude is wrong.

"I won't play this game competitively because of the community." ABLOO BLOO BLOO.

"The community" hasn't banned Hilde or Starkiller, or any other stupid thing. A few people have made personal decisions or have their own opinions about the game. They are not "the community," and your point about not caring is your best one: Why should you care? Or, more correctly, why do you care? Your post was hyperbolic and insulting, and I'm sick of this outsider attitude. It's worse than any amount of moaning that goes on in the forums -- and remember that the bitching in the forums magnifies thirty-fold what people actually think, since only the people who actually care enough to bitch bother to post, while the other 97% of the community just plays the game -- just because some other community *cough*SRK*cough* doesn't mind having broken games, doesn't mean that the SC community should just give up on proper game balance.

And besides that, you don't have to read or post in any of the ban discussion threads (or any other thread, for that matter) to play the game competitively or attend tourneys.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

There are lots of things wrong about the competitive community that gets in the way of proper competitive gaming, and it would take an essay to discuss. Let's just say that the SC community has put it's game under the microscope more than most other games and is a unique challenge to overcome. There are many players who argue about game balance here that doesn't have the proper idea about what it really means because they've never played a competitive game before SC. They say we should play this game the way we want to and not have to follow any kind of trend, not realizing that the game designers meant for it to be a fighting game like the other ones out there and that the fighting game mentality was there way before SC came out.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Hustle_Man_77 said:
Then you get the elitists in here who don't listen to reason. They feel because they've won a couple hundred dollars in some tournaments that they are God's gift to the world, when in reality they are just good at a video game.
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Nothing wrong with being good in a particular video game although I'm pretty sure you don't mean to imply that way.

Now about elitists who don't listen... it entirely depends on the situation. A situation such as if someone who has no tourney experience gives an advice to a well-experienced tourney player why should that tourney player listen? Would you still consider that tourney player an elitist then?

If you think elitism is one of the reasons it kills this community then how come you have sports that have been vastly popular yet elitism still exists?
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Organous said:
For characters, yes, the debate here is the largest I know, but there's certainly been some debate in Smash Bros. Particularly with the stages, Smash Bros. is the most banhappy of them all.
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Oh right, those guys. I keep forgetting they exist, my bad.

OK with the exception of Smash players, this kind of nonsense is unique to SC's community. So think about that, guys. I just used "Smash players" and "SC community" in the same sentence. That alone should be enough to make you ashamed of yourselves.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

Actually if you really want to know what kills fighting game communities then you need to look no further to DoA4 - home of the 8 man 'major'. If that's not a failed and/or dead community then I don't know what is. It's easy to blame the game, but since it still has a fairly large casual audience to this day its got to have something going for it. If your not going to blame the game you need something - so I've narrowed down the following possible culprits:

1) Tom Brady
2) Community leader (Dhalsim) had zero respect from the people he was trying to organize
3) Weekly tier lists - each radically different from the last
4) Serious chip on everyone's shoulder for not playing a 'legit' game
5) boobies
6) Outside sponsorship and commercialism so blatantly sad it'd make a 4 year old want to puke
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

BanHilde said:
The one and only thing that kills a competitive community is a bad game (with the exception of VF, which has a very tiny almost dead community but it's still there).
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The fact that your username is "BanHilde" and you referred to Virtua Fighter as a bad game is drop-dead fucking hilarious. I think this is the part where you stop talking.
 
What kills competitive fighting game communiti

franman said:
Nothing wrong with being good in a particular video game although I'm pretty sure you don't mean to imply that way.

Now about elitists who don't listen... it entirely depends on the situation. A situation such as if someone who has no tourney experience gives an advice to a well-experienced tourney player why should that tourney player listen? Would you still consider that tourney player an elitist then?

If you think elitism is one of the reasons it kills this community then how come you have sports that have been vastly popular yet elitism still exists?
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I wasn't implying that being good at a video game is a bad thing. I was just pointing out that that's all it is: being good at a video game. Some people don't seem to realize that. Wasn't trying to insult.

I'm not saying the best players have to listen to anyone, but some of them think that because people don't attend tourneys that they don't know how to play the game. That's the part I don't like.

Fran, I know you're good. I've watched a lot of your vids to get tips on my Cervy game. I'm not as good as you and I know this, but it's only because I don't have a large offline scene where I'm at so I don't get to practice against the really good players offline. When I watch SC vids, I see and know what is going on. I'm not a "scrub" by any means. However, I still know how this game works and how to play at a much higher level than your average player.

I don't think elitism is that bad in most competitive aspects of life, because it comes with the territory. I just think it's funny when a lot of people here immediately discredit someone's point of view, because they don't make a living playing this game.

Edit: With sports that's an entirely different thing. The money, fame, athleticism, practice, and time put into getting to the upper levels of competition of a sport isn't exactly the same as for a video game. Yes there is time and effort put into it, but in the US, the reward isn't really worth all of that. I do enjoy playing this game tho lol
 
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